Hi everyone,A spare moment has deposited itself on my doorstep – the TTT liners are done! And I mean actually done. Content, layout, everything. Fittingly, the final tweak was the placement of my name… because it had been set so as to make it appear that a picture of a marimba was labeled “Doug Adams.” (Even more confusing, it was an Adams brand marimba!)
So start your eye exercises now… there’s a whole bunch of tiny-fonted text coming your way soon!
>>>Doug. If there were going to be a multimedia aspect to your book, I would like to advocate for having audio examples of some of the musical concepts you discuss in the liner notes and, to a small extent, just now. Chords, harmonys, minor, major... I know what those words mean but I don't have enough musical knowledge to apply them in a meaningful way. I could almost cry when I see conversations like this and know that this is exciting stuff and I'm missing it all.>>>
I just had a conversation with Mr. Shore late last week regarding multimedia content with the book, and he had some *really* exciting ideas. Even with my grand plans, I was left asking, “Really, we can do that!?” Nothing’s solid yet, but that’s the next big thing to tackle, and it’s looking to be amazing!
>>>I'm hesitant to ask questions because I'm so aware of the fine line you walk with information. But this one's itching to be asked. You wrote: "Other than the songs, Shore didn’t write any new “material” for the credits in terms of new themes, but many the arrangements are unique to the credits." You've indicated Bilbo's Song was written especially for the credits but you used songs/plural. Does that mean that the song Sissel sings was also written for the credits? I can live with waiting for CR-ROTK, but the subject came up.>>>
The Sissel piece was written for the post-battle Fields of Pelennor and the Houses of Healing. Arwen’s song wasn’t originally going to be in there. And yes, of course, we’ll get to all the specific details in ROTK: CR.
>>>I'm also wondering about a song title for TTT that appeared in the Music for the Movies issue devoted to LOTR called "The Deeping Wall". It gave Elizabeth Frasier as the singer but it also lists Haldir's Lament and The March of the Ents so it can't be either of those two pieces. Was this some wrong information or is this something that gets illuminated in the CR-TTT?>>>
Sometimes a text would get one title, but the composition in which it was used would get another. You’ll even notice in the FOTR: CR credits there will be some “also known as” credits regarding texts and such. Most this was due to the legal filing of the cue sheets and copyrights. For example, the text would have its title (as decided by Philippa or Fran or Tolkien), the composition would have one title, it would get another title when edited into the OST, then another title again as it was entered into the CR. So there are a lot of multiple titles out there. (Sometimes there were even alternate text titles to deal with as well!) The Haldir’s Lament text was used inside the composition (originally) titled “The Deeping Wall.”
>>>Doug, once again, thank you for your insight! For someone who says that they don't have much info that sure was a lengthy post!>>>
I’m a fast… and lousy… typist.
>>>One question for you, have you ever pitched the idea to Howard Shore for a Q&A session here on the boards? Maybe to conincide with the release of TTT:CR? Of course this would be dependant on H.S.'s available time.>>>
Honestly, I don’t know that he’d have the time at this point, but I’m sure he appreciates the interest.
>>>However, your book or the rarities (whatever) disc, any ideas on the design(s) as yet? Know its too early, but wouldn't it look good if the design was based on the CR designs? In gold? silver(mithril)? And you don't have to answer this if you don't know the answers right now. I know how it feels to tell people that things haven't been decided as yet>>>
Yeah, there’s no idea on this yet! I’ll let you know once we’re getting closer.
>>>by the way how does the edit sound and have you got a hint at how long it is going to be or will that come in the press release?>>>
It sounds spectacular… and I haven’t even heard the DVD version yet. It’ll be longer than FOTR: CR, that’s all I can say right now. The press release will hint at a playing time, but as I noted in an earlier post, it’ll be deceptive.
>>>Nice to hear about that dwarven piece from the ROTK. If you said beer then it must be the music played during the drinking contest. >>>
I’d say that’s a pretty solid guess!
>>>And if your book will contain stuff from ROTK, then is it possible that you'll release it after ROTK:CR?>>>
The last I’ve heard, the publishers would like to have the book out around the same time as ROTK: CR, if not slightly earlier. That doesn’t mean that’s exactly when it will happen, but seems to be the prevailing thought at the moment.
>>>P.S.:Was Howard Shore inspired after Dvorak's first 5-6 seconds of the 9th symphony "New World",Largo movement,for a certain piece of shire music?Those 5-6 seconds of Dvorak sound a bit like the music played when the fellowship reunites in frodo's bedroom:ROTK,second dvd,1:34:36-1:34:43.Thanks again.>>>
The only specific nod in the score is Shore’s Wagner reference in the ROTK credits. Anything past that is simply a matter of coincidence.
>>>So, has it been decided yet how to deal with those "entirely different compositions"? You don't have to tell us what they are planning to do, just say YES or NO>>>
It has been decided that you’ll hear them eventually. So, “YES.”
>>>And since you brushed on the topic "Star Wars", let me ask you a simple question:
which trilogy do you think is more complex, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? I think this is a battle that will go on as long as good vs. evil exists.>>>
You know, I don’t know that that is a judgment I can make – not for any sort of bureaucratic reasons, but for artistic ones. Complexity is a pretty subjective thing. Is Pollock more complex or is Picasso? It’s hard to say because they were after such different aesthetics. I can happily say that I find both trilogies to be quite complex in their own ways. Mr. Shore is a fan of Williams’ Star Wars writing, and Mr. Williams applauded enthusiastically when Shore won his first Oscar. Seems like a nice amicable situation to me!
>>>And since you're already reading this post, if you had to pick one score of each trilogy as your favourite, which ones would you chose?>>>
In Star Wars, I’d have to say Empire is still my favorite, but that was the first score I ever heard on record, so maybe I’m biased. In LOTR – that’s really hard to say. I tend to feel that whatever I’m currently listening to is the best, which is a good sign! When I was working on FOTR I always felt, “Boy you know, this is really the strongest one, isn’t it?” When I started working on TTT I started to think, “Wow so much more breadth and verticality. This has got to be the finest of the lot!” Guess what I’ll think when I start ROTK…
>>>I reserve judgment on the Lord of the Rings scores until I hear all of the Complete Recordings. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but ever since I got the CR of Fellowship, my estimation of that score as a purely musical work has increased immeasurably - and watching the film was a completely different experience after hearing the score in complete form.>>>
You’re about to experience that again very soon! I promise you.
>>>Anyway, to quote Doug Adams:
Don't panic!
That's easy to say when you've got access to the whole thing in every stage of its production>>>
Well, to be fair, I think he’s quoting the other Doug Adams! You know, the real one. 
>>>By the way, Doug is constantly talking about ROTK's new hobbit material, has anyone noticed this new material?
I'm afraid I'm a little thick here. I've never looked at Bilbo's Song as a pure hobbit piece ... ?>>>
There are several new developments of the Shire material in this score, and I’m not simply referring to some of the recaps at the end. New Shire material is doled out in interesting ways, as you’ll see in TTT. These films are essentially told from a hobbit-centric point of view, and so the Shire material is constantly treated to new guises, accumulating like the hobbits’ experiences. It’s not so much that there are brand new themes, it’s that the existing material moves into new molds.
As for the Bilbo piece… it’s mature hobbit music. It still features the boys. It still begins with the 1-2-3 stepwise motion. But there’s a new weighty quality to its development.
>>>And I thought the press release would include pics...>>>
The FOTR press release did not include pics, so I suspect this one will not either. I guess it could, but it would be news to me.
>>>Okay, I'm tired of "deep breaths before plunges"...there's just been too much of silence. The weeks are going by and they seem like years and I feel like I'm aging without anything to sustain me. I need something, maybe news about The Hobbit, or about 10th anniversary LOTR release with deleted scenes "back where they belong" or maybe news about TTT:CR??>>>
Oh dear! Well, as they say, man does not live by bread alone! Even I need to climb out of Middle-earth now and then and take a walk, go out for a movie, hang out with friends and loved ones, etc. Remember, Tolkien was very big on the ideas and themes in LOTR being applied in real life as well!
>>>Also, in the FOTR annotated score, could someone please explain the Unused Concept on page 12? Doug says that Mr.Shore had written and recorded music for the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene." Huh?? Doug?>>>
Well, in the film’s Theatrical Cut the gift giving scene was cut down to the point that it was nothing more than the Fellowship departing in boats. But the fact remains that this was the gift giving scene, despite the fact that we’ll have to assume the actual gift giving happened off screen. (Remember, Frodo somehow has that phial in ROTK.) Referring to the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene” is a way to say this a bit more concisely.
>>>At the begining of the TTT:EE scoring documentary, you see (and hear) a clip from the FOTR scoring sessions showing the scene where Merry and Pippin create a diversion at Parth Galen so Frodo can escape.
In the film, we get just a hint of the Reclamation of Nature theme in that scene, but here it gets a lengthier statement, with a brass ending that I almost thought must have come from the Rohirrim at Pelennor...
Is there a story here? (perhaps they wanted to save the development of the theme for later?)
And is this piece a possible candidate for release as a rarity?>>>
Both the music and the story are indeed candidates! (Yes, there was some discussion on this recently!)
-Doug
- thanks Doug for the info!
