Hi everyone,Whoah, you’ve all been busy. Sorry for my absence. Yes, I’ve been working on the Annotated Score, did some work for composer Mychael Danna, did a quick interview with Danny Elfman and assembled a Film Score Monthly Podcast. It’s been busy around here. I’m going to start answering questions right now and will update the file until I fall asleep. I’ll finish the rest tomorrow. In the meantime, please feel free to check out the Podcast, if you’re Elfman-inclined.
http://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_016.mp3
Ok, keep your eyes here, I’ll keep updating for a while.
-Doug
*****
>>>Do all three of Eowyn's themes appear in TTT then? I know there's also the material for her and Merry in ROTK.>>>
I should be more specific here. Éowyn has three themes in TTT. The Merry and Éowyn material doesn’t come into play here yet, obviously. So yes, then, all three Éowyn themes are in TTT.
>>>The other major unused pieces on the OST being the opening of Forth Eorlingas, the alternate arrival of Shadowfax, the alternate in Taming of Smeagol and the middle section of Breath of Life (intended for "Arwen's Fate"?)>>>
These are other major pieces you’re already aware of. They’re really just a taste however.
>>>There's a theme specifically for Eowyn and Théoden? And yet another thing that's new to me.
But there can't be major differences between those three themes? Don't they all start with that perfect fifth leap?>>>
They’re different enough to be notably separate.
>>>About the "Wonderment of Treebeard": I noticed that in Treebeard's scenes, there's some kind of electronic- sounding drone in the background, which sounds somewhat like a very distorted flute. Is there some connection to the score?>>>
That’s sound effects, not score. There are no electronic instruments anywhere in the LOTR scores.
>>>The music during Gandalf's conversation with Aragorn strongly reminds me of Gandalf's first scene with Denethor in ROTK. I suppose there's some connection ... ?>>>
No, there’s a much more specific connection than just that.
>>>Something I've mentioned to Doug in the past was about many of us "LotR score Joes" getting together with Mr. Shore, Mr. Adams, and all of those that have worked on the CR project to celebrate. This might seem very unlikely, but it's a good idea that could happen if many are interested and work together to make it happen. This would be once RotK CR/book has been released. This would be a GREAT opportunity to recognize all of those people that have worked so hard that aren't receiving the amount of recognition that they should. We would be able to meet them and find out just how they've contributed to the whole thing. We could have discussion time, hang out time, food time , etc. I like the idea. What about you-uns?>>>
If you’re interested in setting up something like this, I’d suggest you consider working through theonering.net. They’ve got considerable experience setting up things like this.
>>>The theme when Gandalf talks to Aragorn is also appearing in the opening scene when they climb down with the elven rope. You can actually hear it in the EE scene menu (of that scene)>>>
The Elven Rope music to which you’re referring contains the Evil Times theme, which is similar and related to the music used in the Gandalf / Aragorn scene, but a separate theme.
>>>And a good one for Doug:
In the FOTR EE version if you play it with commentary (the one with Howard Shore) you will hear Howard refer to the History of the Ring theme, as a Gondor theme.>>>
I think Shore was sort of thinking double meta here… so to speak. I think he originally conceived of the History theme as a theme that could have potentially been written by Gondorians about the History of the Ring. He largely moved out of that mode of thought as he progressed through the series, but I think this was his starting off point.
>>>No but really, at that price I too wonder what wonderful extra gems will packed into this box set!>>>
Ok, here’s one where I’ll admit to being stumped. I don’t know where the price comes from… though, to be honest, I don’t really know where the price came from on the original release. I think the label sets it, so I’m nowhere near that picture.
>>>I have a question. Could someone identify the musical piece that plays on Disc 1, Track 1 of the complete recordings from 3:32 to 3:52? This is the score for the scene when Isildur cuts the One Ring from the hand of Sauron ending in the Dark Lord's physical destruction. It has that repeating phrase that was heard earlier when Sauron forges the One Ring and later on in the film when Boromir trys to take it from Frodo. There is also another theme playing that sounds like Aragon's. Am I on the right track? I don't remember reading about this in the liner notes, maybe I'm mistaken. It's become one of my favorite pieces of music in the score. Thanks!>>>
That’s the good ol’ down-and-back-up shape… which is contained in any number of LOTR themes. I think that’s addressed the FOTR Annotated material.
>>>But gas prices are going down!... and this is a 25% increase in the price over "Fellowship"!! OK, Doug, put on your PR hat and reassure us that this price is not just due to our increased demand!! ;-)>>>
I would tend to doubt that pretty severely. I don’t think Warners monitors this thread while hungrily rubbing its palms together. At least I hope not!
And since it’s already here for the taking… yes, the track list below is accurate. Most of the names come directly from Tolkien’s writing, from the DVD chapters or from the film’s dialogue. And just to be nice, I’ve broken it up properly for each disc.
Tracklist:
1. Glamdring
2. Elven Rope
3. Lost In Emyn Muil
4. My Precious
5. Ugluks Warriors
6. The Three Hunters
7. The Banishment Of Eomer
8. Night Camp
9. The Plains Of Rohan
10. Fangorn
11. The Dead Marshes
12. Wraiths On Wings
13. Gandalf The White
14. The Dreams Of Trees
15. The Heir Of Numenor
16. Ent-draught
17. Edoras
18. The Court Of Meduseld
19. Theoden King
20. The Kings Decision
21. Exodus From Edoras
22. The Forests Of Ithilien
23. One Of The Dunedain
24. The Wolves Of Isengard
25. Refuge At Helms Deep
26.: The Voice Of Saruman
27. Arwens Fate
28. The Story Foretold
29. Sons Of The Steward
30. Rock And Pool
31. Faramirs Good Council
32. Aragorns Return
33. War Is Upon Us
34. Where Is The Horse And The Rider?
35. The Host Of The Eldar
36.: The Battle Of The Hornburg
37. The Breach Of The Deeping Wall
38. The Entmoot Decides
39. Retreat
40. Master Peregrins Plan
41. The Last March Of The Ents
42. The Nazgul Attack
43. Theoden Rides Forth
44. The Tales That Really Matter
45. Long Ways To Go Yet
Now, to be honest, there are a few “featuring…” subtitles missing here, but I’ll leave those to the spies among you to discover!
>>>Shouldn't "Gollum's Song" be at the end there...or maybe it is included in the last track.>>>
Gollum’s song is contained within “Long Way To Go…” That’s one of the “Featuring…” that’s missing.
>>>-----Would you recommend me to buy the first single disc releases, for sake of different music?>>>
Depends on how much of a completeist you are. As was the case with Fellowship, there will be a few seconds of music on the OST that will not be on the boxed set… only because the OST presented an early version of something that was later revised. Shadowfax’s appearance springs to mind.
>>>----- Doug, you mention here that we will eventually get non-final versions of the music, do you mean in the supplementary/rarities disc(possibilities)/s?>>>
That is what I’m referring to, yep.
>>>-----Doug, another thing, I know we are all very excited about the up and coming release, and we know (or at least I do) that you can't give out too much information, but would you be able to (well this might sound a bit ridiculous, and unjustifiable), lets just say, if you know the exact time, and can't give it out, by all means don't ruin your career, but as you say it is longer than TFOTR:CR, each time that you post some information would it be possible to tease and excite the readers by uping the time, by saying that it is longer than a specific time????? (lets say Post 1 - more than 180:30, Post 2 - more than 181:30 etc etc), and yet still leaving a huge gap between the time you post, to the time that it actually is.>>>
This is a great idea, but to be honest, with my schedule as it is right now, I’d probably do this so sporadically that it wouldn’t accomplish anything other than making people irritated with me.
>>>Question for Doug - though I may have asked this a long time ago and had you answer it. Do you know if Howard Shore wrote music for the 'Second Council of Galadriel' scene when it was still in the film? 'The Leavetaking' is the cue that most clearly corresponds to what material from that sequence ended up in the final film... but did he score the sequence in its earliest version - when Arwen and Elrond go to Lothlorien? I ask this because I've heard references to music that was originally written for a scene where Arwen looks into the 'Mirror of Galadriel'.>>>
To the best of my knowledge, neither scene was ever scored.
>>>If those 45 tracks are correct, then I would guess that disc 1 will have 15 tracks, disc 2-17 tracks, and disc 3-13 tracks. We'll find out soon. It's good to know that Shore's website is finally "up and running". Yay! I'm still working on trying to figure out Eowyn's themes/Rohan material. I thought there were only 3 or 4 themes for Rohan, but I think there are about 6 or 7...?>>>
In TTT there are… sort of four-and-a-half Rohan themes total.
>>>I'm scared about something..."they're coming...no...No!...NOOOOO!!!"........uh, just kidding (about that ^ ). Seriously though, I love the "nice ending" to the OST track 16 - Forth Eorlingas. I hate the film version where (because of the editing, of course) the "ending" of tr16 goes immediately to the "Flooding" music without finishing. Now, I'm BASING this on the 45-long track list, ASSUMING it's the right one. Track 43 to 44, by name, sounds like there's no "Flooding" music, but it's obviously there, AND, it "has" to be at the end of 43, not the beginning of 44. Please reassure me that on the CR, the music going from the Helm's Deep battle to the "Flooding" will NOT sound like the film version. I'm...scared...*sniff*...help me Doug Adams, you're my only hope... I'm hoping there's some more "transitional" music or something there that sounds good. I'm sure there is.>>>
>>>Yes. These are exactly the kind of things I had hoped the CRs would "fix". Obviously, FOTR didn't have much of those since it's a linear movie, but TTT and ROTK have several storylines, and the edits that were made are hopefully not on the CRs.>>>
The “Forth Eorlingas” ending you hear on the OST is a created ending, meaning it only exists through editing. You are not really hearing the end of the composition, you are hearing something that was edited together artificially create an ending. (You can sort of tell if you listen to the beginning of the suspended cymbal hit…) It’s done incredibly well, and it suits the needs of the OST’s shorter running time, but it is not what Howard Shore composed.
The idea behind the CR project is most certainly to present what Shore composed. There will be no messing around with the order of the passages, because that’s pretty contrary to the project’s purpose. Shore wrote the music to the end of the film in *nearly* the same order it appears in the finished film. There was a little tweaking for a few of the Osgiliath cutaways, and tweaks have been restored to Shore’s original vision for the CR. But don’t expect someone to go slicing away to create a recording in which all the Isengard scenes are grouped together, all the Helm’s Deep scenes are grouped together and all the Osgiliath scenes are grouped together. The shape of Shore’s composition very carefully reflects what’s happening on screen… his transitions and balances were very intricately thought out, and there’s no desire to upset that with a bunch of harsh editing and artificial assembly. Personally, I think it’s absolutely amazing that Shore was able to delineate three different stories so clearly and dramatically – it’s a real juggling act. I would feel just awful if all that were tossed by the wayside for a gimmicky purpose.
>>>I wonder, in the ROTK there is an unused scene were Aragorn is wearing the Gondorian armor. Did Howard Shore score this scene? Because the Music in the TTT were Aragorn is wearing the Rohirrim armor in Helm’s Deep is Fantastic! Very dynamic and epic.>>>
The assembly on ROTK begins soon, so we’ll be ale to take a closer look at questions like that very soon!
>>>About the edits on TTT: all along I thought we would get the full pieces that were recorded and how they were recorded, not necessarily how they were split up or edited together in the film. At least that's what Doug and the press release promised all along, "the full pieces how they were recorded". And that would also include Forth Eorlingas with the clean ending.>>>
As you seen above, in this case, the “clean” ending is false ending. The CR will actually present, for the first time on CD, the ending as it was written and recorded.
>>>(*****Now Doug....when Gandalf introduces himself, on Disc 1 51:10 to 51:36, is this missing music, as if you listen to Disc 2 during the end credits (not the fan credits) 1:47:49 to 1:48:46, you will notice that the end credits have a longer vocal version, or is this longer version just composed for the end credits?*****)>>>
You will hear the full piece on CD. Nothing new was composed for TTT’s fan scroll.
>>>onwards, riddle, Gandalf's whistle for Shadowfax (**Is this included in the score?**)>>>
Ha! No, no whistling in the score!
>>>Orc horns at the Black gate (***Are these horns in the score?***)>>>
No, sir.
>>>(****Now during the scene just before Frodo covers Sam and himself, if you know most of HS scores, this sounds like what he would develop into David Cronenberg's A History Of Violence, and I was wondering, do you know the distance between HS scoring this and AHOV?****),>>>
Shore likes stepwise writing. Just showing his fingerprints, that’s all.
>>>(****Doug, is this extended on the CR, as it seems cut as though it wasn't finished (or edited down) properly?****)>>>
They’re pretty similar.
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