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Author	Topic: LOTR Package Update?

AustinHusker Standard Userer	Many thanks to Neo Voyager for providing me with a PDF of the back slip of paper from FOTR:CR. Thanks! -Chad
posted 12-08-2006 06:41 AM PT (US)

Calvin Non-Standard Userer	Thanks for the research and info about the 'rarities disc' possibilities.
posted 12-08-2006 12:35 PM PT (US)

elfgurl Non-Standard Userer	Ok, I know this'll be waaaay OT, but I figured you guys might be able to help me out here. Does anyone know of a site that would give comparisions between the books and the movies? I know there was a site that went into a lot of detail, but I haven't looked for it in a while and now a friend's asking about it as he doesn't want to sit down and read the book. Can anyone help me out?
posted 12-09-2006 09:57 AM PT (US)

Magpie Standard Userer	http://www.encyclopedia-of-arda.com/default.asp look on the left for movie-goer's guide Although he should sit down and read the book. [Message edited by Magpie on 12-09-2006]
posted 12-09-2006 11:13 AM PT (US)

Olorin Standard Userer	If he doesn't want to read the book, what differences does it make what was changed for the movie?
posted 12-09-2006 06:41 PM PT (US)

vdemona Standard Userer	Your friend can't make any valid criticisms or comparisons if he hasn't read the books for himself. Reading information on a website can increase the knowledge he already has (if he reads the books) but simply doing that alone he would only be parroting information he has no knowlege of instead of bringing his own knowlege to bear on the subject.
posted 12-10-2006 11:30 AM PT (US)

elfgurl Non-Standard Userer	Thanks Magpie, that's exactly what I was looking for. And trust me guys, I've tried to tell him to experience the amazing books too, but he refuses to sit down to read the "1000 page sleeper". Maybe if I just keep bugging him, he'll get sick of me and just read them himself. Oy....MEN!!!
posted 12-10-2006 04:08 PM PT (US)

THX 1138 4eb Standard Userer	WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sounds so much better listening to the Complete Recordings as I did on Saturday back-to-back for 6 hours and 9 minutes straight. I think it is funny and great, that moment in the recordings on the first disc of The Two Towers - I think it might be track 6 at about 3:30 minutes in, and I just can't get that moment (5 beat pattern) out of my head of the excitement and anticipation of that podcast.........'And this is the moment you've all been waiting for!!!!...........' Thanks Doug...........LOL I don't think I will ever imagine anything else, some may say you've ruined the piece for me as I imagine nothing else but your voice about to appear (and it doesn't), but it just reminds me of how exciting everything is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Message edited by THX 1138 4eb on 12-10-2006]
posted 12-10-2006 05:52 PM PT (US)

segali Non-Standard Userer	QUESTION FOR DOUG? in the track ''edoras'' as the fellowship enter edoras and aragorn looks up to see eowyn and as he looks again she is gone and there is a gong, is there a reason for this gong not being on the CR. Also could you further exaplain, cause i dont quite understand why that bit of music as frodo and sam come up the mountain, originally the title for TTT theatrical edition is not on the CR and instead the shire theme is there.
posted 12-10-2006 07:16 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	Segali, I can answer your second question at it was addressed in the PDF supplement to the included CR liner (more notes by Doug) available on http://www.lordoftherings-soundtrack.com/ that covers many aspects of the differences between what appears in the films, on the CRs and the original soundtrack albums. The Evil Times theme was used in the film, but the CR represents what Shore originally had written for the scene.
posted 12-11-2006 08:35 PM PT (US)

azahid Standard Userer	In regards to the "Rarities" disc that is being rumoured. I have info from some one "VERY reliable" that this will happen after the release of ROTK-CR. So there will be more alternates and stuff. Amer
posted 12-11-2006 10:59 PM PT (US)

AustinHusker Standard Userer	azahid, Do you have any more info from your source? This has been hinted/rumored for some time now. -Chad
posted 12-12-2006 12:47 PM PT (US)

azahid Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by AustinHusker: azahid, Do you have any more info from your source? This has been hinted/rumored for some time now. -Chad Sorry Chad,thats all I know, my source didnt want to reveal anything more only confirmed me my hopes that there will be another "Bonus" album after the ROTK is released. What I was hoping for maybe the alternates would be added as a bonus on the ROTK set from all previous films. But No. Its going to be seperate. What ever that might be? My guess is good as anyones... Amer
posted 12-12-2006 10:28 PM PT (US)

Gorbag Non-Standard Userer	I hoped it would be separate, in its own fancy case like the rest. Not sure what colour they could use though or how many CD's it would take up!
posted 12-13-2006 01:35 AM PT (US)

Crippled Avenger Non-Standard Userer	I just wanted to thank everyone, especially Timdalf, for their help with Wagner questions. Timdalf, if I read into that correctly, you actually got Jeffrey Swann to read the review and respond to it? I certainly appreciate these opinions. I was able to borrow a Solti recording and am slowly working my way through it, actively listening instead of just 'hearing' it, and taking my time. Opera was basically the last genre of music I had to explore (excluding country, which will never happen!), and this is the first time I've found it accessible and enjoyable. So thanks to all the Wagner experts on the board for their recommendations.
posted 12-13-2006 06:20 PM PT (US)

Crippled Avenger Non-Standard Userer	I have some orchestral and choral questions about Two Towers, both for Doug and everyone else. 1. I was trying to play one phrase from the Two Towers liner notes on my piano to identify a theme I couldn�t hear, but noticed a sign I�ve never seen before. It�s neither a treble nor bass clef, and I noticed it�s only for the viola (which might explain why I�ve never seen it before). What is the name of this clef (or whatever it is) and how would I read the notes for that line for piano? Is it comparable to the treble or bass clefs? 2. Shore�s score is the first time I�ve encountered aleatoric writing, as Doug defined the musical style of the Watcher in the Water music. Would the cue from 2:18 (and more audibly 2:30) of �Night Camp�, and 2:40 and 3:20 of �The Dead Marshes�, and especially from the beginning (and mostly 0:40 to 1:36) of �Gandalf the White�, be other examples of aleatoric music? The opening 90 seconds of �Gandalf the White� is one of my favorite moments. I�ve always loved the sound of an orchestra warming up, which seems at least superficially related to aleatoric music or what�s going on at these moments. Is there a difference between aleatoric music, �tone clusters�, and �divisis� (described on p. 42 of the Fellowship liner notes)? 3. The passage in �The Dead Marshes� from 3:20 to 3:45 where the choir does�whatever they do. Man that would have been amazing to be present for the recording of this part. Some of the choir appear to be making sounds in this part that are not notes in the conventional sense, including whimpers, sighs, and so forth. Would Shore have been able to give direction in his musical notation of what he wanted, or does that kind of music need to be talked through, directed, and then conducted in person? Do professional choir members today receive vocal training in these kind of �extra-music� sounds? Before the Complete Recordings when I watched the movie I assumed those sounds were part of the sound design of the film, not part of Shore�s composition. 4. Just as a comment, I�ve noticed that the presentation of the Ringwraith theme in �Wraiths on Wings� is far more vicious and less majestic than in Fellowship. There was a dark beauty to the Ringwraith choir in Fellowship and one gets the impression Shore wanted the audience to identify with on some level, but here, the choir almost seems to be�achorally chanting the theme, instead of singing it (if �achoral� makes any sense). The image that pops into my head is that the Wraiths got a severe tongue lashing from Sauron after they failed in Fellowship, and now gone is the beauty of their evilness. Now they�re just desperate to find the Ring and as a result, their musical presence is far more base and primitive.
posted 12-13-2006 07:01 PM PT (US)

NeoVoyager Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Crippled Avenger: [B]I have some orchestral and choral questions about Two Towers, both for Doug and everyone else. ... which I will try to answer to the best of my ability, myself being a violinist and having a fair amount of music theory training. 1. I believe you're speaking of the alto clef, which is, as you surmised, used by violas (sometimes called the "viola clef"). The easiest way to explain it is: the middle line (the one being "pointed to") of the alto clef is middle C on a piano. 2. Yes, I'm pretty sure that the brass you mentioned in "Night Camp" is aleatoric. However, it sounds like the rest of the orchestra is playing specifically written material. I would also say that, yes, the strings (and a few other instruments here and there) in that section of Gandalf the White are definitely aleatoric. Shore certainly gave guidelines for what he wanted the performers to do (i.e. stay within a given set of pitches or key, crescendos and decrescendos, duration, etc.), but it's mostly aleatoric, I think. Remember, 'aleatoric' doesn't necessarily mean completely random, only that there is an element of chance and indeterminacy in the performance. The slow orchestral swells in "The Dead Marshes" seem to be largely aleatoric as well. Sometimes it is difficult to tell, though. quote: Is there a difference between aleatoric music, �tone clusters�, and �divisis� (described on p. 42 of the Fellowship liner notes)? Tone clusters aren't aleatoric by definition; they are simply a name for a sequence of notes played simultaneously and sustained by an orchestra or piano, etc.. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_cluster A divisi is basically an extension on the concept of clusters, but a divisi is a specific method of dividing a cluster between the sections and performers in an orchestra. For example: suppose there is a two-tone chord for the violin section which cannot be reasonably played by a single violin (three strings apart, for instance), then the conductor will instruct the violins to divide it between themselves evenly, usually the violinists on the left play the lower pitch, and those on the right play the higher pitch, and they combine to form a seamless sounding chord/cluster. That's a very simple divisi. I hope that made sense! 3. The choir performances at 3:20 and on don't seem aleatoric to me; rather, as Doug noted, they are performed in the Sprechstimme style... "half singing, half speaking." Of course, I'm sure Shore gave fairly specific instructions to the choristers beyond just telling them to sing it Sprechstimme. That kind of effect would require one-on-one exposition by Shore as to what he wanted the choir to do. I just don't think that musical notation can be as descriptive as was necessary there. specific I really have no idea if professional choristers are specifically trained in Sprechstimme. There's probably a good chance they are. 4. Now that I've effectively worn out the word 'aleatoric' in my vocabulary for a long time , I'll get on to the easier comment/question: quote: Just as a comment, I�ve noticed that the presentation of the Ringwraith theme in �Wraiths on Wings� is far more vicious and less majestic than in Fellowship. There was a dark beauty to the Ringwraith choir in Fellowship and one gets the impression Shore wanted the audience to identify with on some level, but here, the choir almost seems to be�achorally chanting the theme, instead of singing it (if �achoral� makes any sense). The image that pops into my head is that the Wraiths got a severe tongue lashing from Sauron after they failed in Fellowship, and now gone is the beauty of their evilness. Now they�re just desperate to find the Ring and as a result, their musical presence is far more base and primitive. Well, I regret to inform you that I don't think 'achoral' makes any sense, but that could just be me. Yes, it's definitely more vicious and harrowing this time around (which I personally enjoy just as much or more). Could this be due to their new form of transportation as well? Methinks dragons/fell beasts are just a wee bit more vicious and gruesome than horses, savvy? Also, thanks to the fell beasts, the Nine are also much more dangerous and powerful than before, and their sheer scope is increased exponentially.
posted 12-13-2006 08:45 PM PT (US)

Crippled Avenger Non-Standard Userer	NeoVoyager: Thanks, the distinction between tone clusters and divisis was very helpful, especially the example with the string section. Much appreciated!
posted 12-14-2006 11:53 AM PT (US)

NeoVoyager Standard Userer	Shucks! Somehow I was double posted (but I definitely didn't click the 'post' button twice!). Sorry to all you people who are still faithfully prowling this thread. Looking forward to Doug's first RotK update...........
posted 12-16-2006 08:24 AM PT (US)

dcopperfield Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by segali: QUESTION FOR DOUG? in the track ''edoras'' as the fellowship enter edoras and aragorn looks up to see eowyn and as he looks again she is gone and there is a gong, is there a reason for this gong not being on the CR. Also could you further exaplain, cause i dont quite understand why that bit of music as frodo and sam come up the mountain, originally the title for TTT theatrical edition is not on the CR and instead the shire theme is there.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not sure why that gong isn't there but I remember in one of the bonus featurettes that it was played by Peter Jackson himself. He kept saying he wanted to be a part of the score in some way... so Shore put him on the gong. The bit of music as frodo and sam come up the mountain (as it is heard in the film) is actually music tracked from the first film - it is already available on the CR of Fellowship of the Ring. [Message edited by dcopperfield on 12-17-2006]
posted 12-17-2006 08:08 PM PT (US)

Maurizio Non-Standard Userer	Hi there, we at ColonneSonore.net have just published a new exclusive interview with Howard Shore, in which he talks about THE DEPARTED, the LOTR Complete Recordings and SOUL OF THE ULTIMATE NATION: Go Here Hope you all enjoy it! [Message edited by Maurizio on 12-22-2006]
posted 12-18-2006 04:23 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	quote: There's a lot of talk about The Hobbit in these days. I'm aware it's still unclear when and how the film will be made, but if Peter Jackson will be directing, would you like to return as the composer of the Middle-Earth? Peter and I were actually talking about The Hobbit not too long ago, I mean, it's something that we always thought we would do. I hope it will work. It's a great story, it's a return to Middle-Earth, it would be a pure joy for me. I would love it. Have you maybe already came up with an idea for a theme for The Hobbit? (laughs) I'm working on it, yeah... My brain would click away on it in Middle-Earth... I mean, it's a place I never quite really left. Most thrilling to hear, but we all know how these blockbuster follow-ups tend to play out in the end. I still hope for PJ, though.
posted 12-18-2006 06:43 AM PT (US)

Timdalf Standard Userer	Originally posted by gkgyver: >>>There's a lot of talk about The Hobbit in these days. I'm aware it's still unclear when and how the film will be made, but if Peter Jackson will be directing, would you like to return as the composer of the Middle-Earth? Peter and I were actually talking about The Hobbit not too long ago, I mean, it's something that we always thought we would do. I hope it will work. It's a great story, it's a return to Middle-Earth, it would be a pure joy for me. I would love it. Have you maybe already came up with an idea for a theme for The Hobbit? (laughs) I'm working on it, yeah... My brain would click away on it in Middle-Earth... I mean, it's a place I never quite really left.<<< >>>Most thrilling to hear, but we all know how these blockbuster follow-ups tend to play out in the end. I still hope for PJ, though.<<< Again, since the New Line rights will run out in what, a year?, and will, apparently go back to Zaentz, I have no doubt we will see a PJ Hobbit with the usual wonderful suspects doing their stuff, Weta, HS, etc... What all New York wants to know is... WHEN will we get to hear the Ring Symphony complete???? As for "Fellowship" (and "Towers" and "Return" and as EE's too??) done with live orchestra. What a stunning idea! It will be an experience like no other! And what a feat it will be to get the orchestra to play pianissimo enough and for long stretches under the dialogue!!... Suggestion: it will have to be done a la Bayreuth with a hidden orchestra so the light spill does not effect the screen... The mother of all marathons would it be, my presshusss!! And I do hope there will be NY performances!I just hope they will do more than one performance because those tickets will sell faster than Shadowfax runs!! Timdalf [Message edited by Timdalf on 12-18-2006]
posted 12-18-2006 02:40 PM PT (US)

Shire Bagginz Standard Userer	God damn "The Three Hunters" is a good track!!!
posted 12-18-2006 04:09 PM PT (US)

AustinHusker Standard Userer	I just found out about this one, so if you haven't bought FOTR:CR or TTT:CR now's a good time. Barnes and Noble has a 25% off coupon for any single item (including clearance) U8Y3W9U for today, 12/18 only. Free shipping on orders of $25 or more. Note, the coupon excludes video games (including PlayStation 3 bundle) and used books It ends in about 4 hours so if you need it use it! -Chad
posted 12-18-2006 07:16 PM PT (US)

Ge0rge Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Maurizio: Hi there, we at ColonneSonore.net have just published a new exclusive interview with Howard Shore, in which he talks about THE DEPARTED, the LOTR Complete Recordings and SOUL OF THE ULTIMATE NATION: http://www.colonnesonore.net/cmslab/index.asp?id=574&sezione=arti coli&sottosezione=interviste&operazione=view Hope you all enjoy it! Great to hear that finally there are plans to make a live recording of the symphony after all!
posted 12-19-2006 04:22 AM PT (US)

Maurizio Non-Standard Userer	Thanks for your appreciation, guys. It's a real pleasure to share this with all of you. Maurizio --
posted 12-19-2006 07:11 AM PT (US)

Olorin Standard Userer	quote: Great to hear that finally there are plans to make a live recording of the symphony after all! Let's hope it's with a topnotch orchestra, choir, and soloists!
posted 12-19-2006 10:01 AM PT (US)

Ge0rge Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Olorin: Let's hope it's with a topnotch orchestra, choir, and soloists! [/B] ...and with bonus DVD-Audio surround version and notes by Doug
posted 12-19-2006 11:21 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	I'd really prefer it if Howard didn't record the Symphony with the LSO. It's a great orchestra, but I say give us a different interpretation of the piece!
posted 12-20-2006 04:13 AM PT (US)

NeoVoyager Standard Userer	The London Symphony Orchestra? Howard recorded the LotR scores with the LPO (London Philharmonic). Am I under the false impression that they're different orchestras? Are they one and the same?
posted 12-20-2006 05:53 AM PT (US)

Christian K�hn Standard Userer	The LSO is the London Symphony Orchestra, and the LPO is the London Philharmonic Orchestra. The latter recorded the scores. Simple as that. CK
posted 12-20-2006 06:29 AM PT (US)

Doug Adams Standard Userer	Hi everyone, Well, I think I can officially describe this past month as crazy! Just wanted to pop in to say hello, and to let you know I'll try to get to some questions and updates later in the week. (Yay, holiday downtime!) I'm off right now for a meeting on the book, so maybe I'll even have a little from that corner of the world to share with you soon. I hope you're all surviving your individual crazinesses this holiday season! -Doug
posted 12-20-2006 07:06 AM PT (US)

TheTennisBallKid Standard Userer	Hello again, Doug! Another question: Quote from the interview with Shore that was linked to a few posts up: quote: I'm also interested in a projection project that we're now discussing, in which we could perform The Fellowship of the Ring live to a projection of the film. Do you know anything more about this? If so, do you know whether the score would be balanced against the sound effects and dialogue -- similar to say, the 20th Anniversary Premiere of E.T. -- or if it would be more of a FOTR-as-a-silent-film experience, perhaps with subtitles? N.P. Jaws 2
posted 12-20-2006 03:49 PM PT (US)

THX 1138 4eb Standard Userer	The Horror, The Horror..... The prices that are on Amazon.com are crazy.....I got mine for 60.99 USD, and I feel sorry for anyone wanting to buy through Amazon at this point, as they are charging up to $200 USD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!! The Horror, The Horror...... [Message edited by THX 1138 4eb on 12-20-2006]
posted 12-20-2006 04:46 PM PT (US)

Olorin Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by THX 1138 4eb: The Horror, The Horror..... The prices that are on Amazon.com are crazy.....I got mine for 60.99 USD, and I feel sorry for anyone wanting to buy through Amazon at this point, as they are charging up to $200 USD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!! The Horror, The Horror...... [Message edited by THX 1138 4eb on 12-20-2006] Good Lord! It looks like they're not actually carrying it any more, and it's only available from their partners. That is just weird as can be. Why would they no longer be carrying it themselves? Was this a limited release and they aren't getting it in any more? Or did they decide that at its overblown MSRP that not enough people were buying it to make carrying it worthwhile? This whole TTT situation does not make sense.
posted 12-20-2006 09:40 PM PT (US)

TheTennisBallKid Standard Userer	Actually, the first pressing of the set sold out...and more are in production. See here.
posted 12-20-2006 09:56 PM PT (US)

Timdalf Standard Userer	delete [Message edited by Timdalf on 12-23-2006] [Message edited by Timdalf on 12-23-2006]
posted 12-22-2006 07:26 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	And LOTR continues to make history, even in the "Longest Links Ever" category. Just what IS that?
posted 12-22-2006 07:45 AM PT (US)

Maurizio Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: And LOTR continues to make history, even in the "Longest Links Ever" category. Just what IS that? I've fixed that! Sorry if created problems!
posted 12-22-2006 12:13 PM PT (US)

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