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Author	Topic: NEMESIS

Michael Oscar® Winner	So, what´s wrong with all the complaints of Goldsmith´s new score. Nobody heard the score and nobody saw the movie to state an objective opinion. It is always hard to see people condemning an unknown score. The same people will demand a complete score next year, because suddenly the score has became fantastic!! S, let us wait, till it´s out and then we will see! Michael
posted 11-24-2002 08:13 AM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	You make a very good point, Michael. I feel the same way. Looking forward to picking this one up... unfortunately, Tuesday will not be the day for me. I'm having it shipped to my home in Texas, so it should be there next weekend while I'm home visiting my family for Thanksgiving. It'll be fun sharing that with my parents (they enjoy film music, as well). Jeron
posted 11-26-2002 12:31 AM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	I've got a class in a couple hours, but after that, it's off to the store for the score.
posted 11-26-2002 05:35 AM PT (US)

justin boggan Oscar® Winner	Here's a thought for anyone willing to criticize it off the bat so quickly... Goldsmith likes short albums. So he has the say what goes on the cd no matter how much Varese offers. Yet Goldsmith let it be 50mins..... doesn't that tell you all something? Maybe the score IS good. Good enough to where Jerry thought 50 minutes was exceptable. Just a thought.
posted 11-26-2002 05:39 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	Well, Justin, that's all a possibility. But it's not always the case where the length of an album is reflective of the quality of the music. But I'm sure Varese wanted to release an album they could make the fans happy with - considering that this is a pretty big investment for them. Dan
posted 11-26-2002 08:47 AM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	So far, having only a chance to listen to the first four tracks, I'll say that it is good. If the first half of the album is supposedly the weaker, I can't wait to listen to the rest. The opening theme is short but addictive, getting the adrenaline rushing. The villain music is very sinister and somewhat creepy with the odd electronic effects. I hear a hint of the Deep Rising monster-theme, but none of this sounds like a Goldsmith cliche to my ears. I've been wanting more soft scores from Goldsmith so my ears would have a break from the Along Came A Spiders and Hollow Mans, but I'll confess that I really like the aggressive turn Goldsmith is taking here. (By the way, speaking of softer scores, I am absolutely enthralled that Goldsmith is signed on to Schepsi's film adaptation of Steve Martin's Picasso at the Lapin Agile. It's a wonderful play and I'm sure it will inspire a wonderful score.)
posted 11-26-2002 09:49 AM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Awesome, Al. Thanks for the positive feedback on what you've heard thus far. I know where our tastes coincide with re: to Goldsmith, so I trust your opinion above any of the reviews thus far. Jeron [Message edited by Jeron on 11-26-2002]
posted 11-26-2002 10:32 AM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	Well, if you like what you've heard in the first half you're gonna love the second half. Big, bold and ballsy. The Shinzon theme is present throughout but is never given the full treatment it could have been given (like the Khan theme in The Shadow for instance). It's treated sort of like the motifs in Leviathan. The action writing is aggressive, with more than the usual presence of low, growling trombones in Goldsmith of late. It's all out of the Goldsmith bag of tricks but done with more conviction than either First Contact or Insurrection. The ding-ding-ding electronic rythm devise from Total Recall is around more than it needs to be. The music doesn't need it. Expansive, ominous brass, reminiscent of V'ger, makes brief appearances in "Lateral Run". "Final Flight" opens with a flowing, soaring bit of strings and brass and ends with an extended piece of stabbing, "hand to hand combat" style music that's patented Goldsmith. The End Title is performed lazily but a gorgeous theme erupts in the middle section of the piece. It's totally unique from anything in th rest of the score. Very emotional in a Powderesque sort of way. Overall, better than First Contact and Insurrection but no comparison whatsoever to ST:TMP. Not as thematically rich as I had hoped but I suspect it will be wonderful in the movie. And balls to the AICN reviewer who called it wimpy. It may not be original and it may not be romantic but wimpy is a completely bogus description. [Message edited by HAL 2000 on 11-30-2002] [Message edited by HAL 2000 on 12-02-2002]
posted 11-26-2002 10:54 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	So you mean you were able to actually find a copy?????? I looked all over the place(Best Buy, Circuit City etc.) and finally found one at Hastings. The salesman told me they had only ordered in 1 copy and I was the one who got it. While not as good as I hoped it still is worth the listen. The action cues sound refreshing but there are some typical Goldsmith sounds. Some of the darker cues almost remind me of The Mummy. Although I could go with out some of the electronics as well.
posted 11-26-2002 11:34 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by HAL 2000: it is connected somehow with Data's funeral scene Gee, thanks for the spoiler alert. (Ok, i knew about this before... but maybe some folks didn't....) Dan
posted 11-26-2002 11:36 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	LOL!!!! At least the Track Titles didn't give anything away.
posted 11-26-2002 11:38 AM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by HAL 2000: [b]it is connected somehow with Data's funeral scene<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Gee, thanks for the spoiler alert. (Ok, i knew about this before... but maybe some folks didn't....) Dan[/B] Dan Don't be too mad Dan. I'm not even sure there is a funeral scene, per se. But I think just about everyone here already knows the pale one gets toasted in this.
posted 11-26-2002 12:14 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by HAL 2000: I'm not even sure there is a funeral scene, per se. Well.. there's something involving a trash compactor, and a toaster oven...... Dan
posted 11-26-2002 12:57 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: [ Well.. there's something involving a trash compactor, and a toaster oven...... Dan[/B] So they mash up what's left in a trash compactor and he's reborn as a toaster oven? Now you've really spoiled it for me. I would have never seen that one coming. Still, I wonder how Goldsmith scored that?
posted 11-26-2002 01:20 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by HAL 2000: Still, I wonder how Goldsmith scored that? I think it was with a motif similar to "The Hunt" from PLANET OF THE APES. Dan
posted 11-26-2002 01:39 PM PT (US)

jburrows Oscar® Winner	Thanks for revealing a large part of the story! Now I can save 8 bucks! But seriously, please label any spoilers from now on, I had no clue that Data gets the ax in this movie since Patrick Stewart has said that there would be another movie after this one.
posted 11-26-2002 02:10 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	Man the End Credits are slow. I thought the one time John Williams conducted TMP suite on a Boston Pops album was slow but jeez Jerry, either the End Credits are long or he fell asleep at the podium. Talk about slow.
posted 11-26-2002 02:16 PM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	I'm listening to it right now (just at track 5: Repairs), so I'm holding off on a full score review. But what I've heard so far certainly is darker than other Treks, but I don't know if it's the "best." Everyone seems to rave about the last half, so I'll chime in about it when I get there. Needless to say, it is Goldsmith for sure. I do have one thoguht in mind, but Jeron's gonna hate me when (or if) I say it. Kevin NP - ST:N (for those of you who hate reducing the names of movies to initials )
posted 11-26-2002 02:45 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	I don't know what all the negativity has been about these past few days. This is a terrific score! Thrilling action music, a strong thematic backbone, effective use of electronics. It's better than Insurrection, and at least equal to First Contact, if not better there also. I don't understand how some people can be so disappointed in this score. Sure, it's no Star Trek: The Motion Picture. But why would you expect it to be? That score came from a movie that was slow, boring, pretentious, and had a far grander idea of itself than was appropriate, and Jerry wrote a grand score (albeit of higher quality than the film) to accompany it. I've read the Nemesis script... this film is (supposed to be) a fun, entertaining action flick. It's a Stuart Baird movie, for heaven's sake. And Jerry seems to have written the best score possible for it. Bravo, Jerry! You deserve every standing ovation you receive at these scoring sessions. HAL- That theme you speak of in the end credits first shows up in track 4, "Odds and Ends," as an action motif, and is then repeated often throughout the score. Granted, it is (unfortunately) never played with the aching pathos it receieves in the credit suite, but it still makes quite a few appearances. Sounds to me like someone needs a second listen. I'm on my third myself... Kirk NP - Star Trek: Nemesis (****)
posted 11-26-2002 04:19 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	I correct myself: that theme appears only once or twice after "Odds and Ends," which is hardly often. Maybe it has more representation in the film.
posted 11-26-2002 07:34 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	Further correction: I just noticed that the theme I was referring to is actually a slower, more somber version of the theme presented in the main titles. And HAL, I just noticed that you were probably referring to the secondary portion of this theme that swells up in the strings, and not the portion carried by the oboe. You're right, of course; that theme is unique to the end credits. But still, maybe it has further representation in the film. Kirk NP - Renegade Heaven (Bang on a Can) P.S. If any of my regular night-time pals are reading this (and I'm almost certain you will be), AIM is giving me a world of trouble right now, and I can't sign on.
posted 11-26-2002 09:01 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by James: P.S. If any of my regular night-time pals are reading this (and I'm almost certain you will be), AIM is giving me a world of trouble right now, and I can't sign on. I was wondering where you were...
posted 11-26-2002 10:36 PM PT (US)

piero2 Oscar® Winner	From Cousin zooba : Just got the CD. Is it just me or does it sound like The Odd Couple is making an appearance somewhere in space on Track 5 just at 3:14 Sounds like Neal Hefti and Oscar and Felix are definately around somewhere close. Heard somewhere that Matthau always wanted to do a Star Trek pic. Anyway back to the score overall. First listen. Not that great. But it has a few moments...but then again not that great. The End Title March with the Theme stuff in the middle sounds, well, kind of not right. At 1:11 on Track 9 THE SCORPION is kind of cool. That cue is one of the Hi-Lights but seems it's over just when it's getting started. A lot of the Score sounds that way to me. FINAL FLIGHT Track 12 has some nice stuff in it. In closing I love Jerry Goldsmith and I'm hoping the score and more of it that we may not be hearing on CD really goes great with the picture. As a CD listen though this may take some time to get to like. In the end though I think it's funny that we Movie music fans can be so fast to like and dislike and praise and be critical of the stuff that truly enhances our miserable little lives. Jerry has given us so much great stuff. Maybe the whole Star Trek thing has had it's time and needs a rest. To me the Original cast with Kirk, Spock and McCoy WAS Star Trek. It was fun ,action packed and campy, yet deep and dramatic. Picard and his gang was like Shakespeare in Space, that not being bad. They both were great for what they were. Goldsmith's contribution to the Movie Series is in all a Great Achievement.....Nice theme at 3:36 in A NEW ENDING The Goldsmith Passion we know so well but I wanted more of that in this score CD. Okay I'm rambling now. Get the CD and see what YOU think. zoob thanks, piero2 np STAR TREK NEMESIS
posted 11-26-2002 10:56 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	I don't know what else to say except that this is a terrific well-rounded score. Aggressive action theme, soft moments, a sweeping finale. This will be getting plenty of play time. [Message edited by Al on 11-27-2002]
posted 11-27-2002 10:26 AM PT (US)

TV's Frank Oscar® Winner	You said it! Couldn't agree more!
posted 11-27-2002 11:00 AM PT (US)

Spiderman2099 Oscar® Nominee	I just got the soundtrack today and have already listened to it 3 times. I really enjoyed the CD, and think that Goldsmith did a great job on the music. The music is really packed full of action, and the song "A New Ending" is amazing especially the theme it is very emotional. I suggest you give it a listen. I can't wait to see the movie. [Message edited by Spiderman2099 on 11-29-2002]
posted 11-29-2002 05:59 PM PT (US)

justin boggan Oscar® Winner	Sorry to bring this back up, but: "Well, Justin, that's all a possibility. But it's not always the case where the length of an album is reflective of the quality of the music. But I'm sure Varese wanted to release an album they could make the fans happy with - considering that this is a pretty big investment for them. Dan" But i allready pointed it out. I said Goldsmith has the final say no matter what Varese tries to invest in it. Another side, Goldsmith is one of the highest paid composers alive, he surely doesn't have to grant them more score what so ever. He allready has money. Unless of course he is supporting Joel, but that is just a far out guess.
posted 11-30-2002 01:17 AM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	Jerry doesn't always have final say. If Varese had only put up the money for 30 minutes, they could not have gotten 50 no matter what Goldsmith said. Remember how he really wanted to put the Russian choral cue from Air Force One on the album, but they didn't have the money to do it? There you go.
posted 11-30-2002 08:26 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	What the heck????? DATA GETS KILLED??????!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! WHY WHY WHY????? Well thanks a lot for spoiling the movie for me. Jz
posted 11-30-2002 10:29 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	See HAL, what ya did?? Now ya got JZ upset..... that'll learn ya to use spoiler alerts!! Dan
posted 11-30-2002 10:43 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Yeah this oughta teach you a lesson! Jz -Wondering if Mr. Berman is gonna pull a Wrath of Kahn/Search For Spock on us.
posted 11-30-2002 10:54 AM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: Wondering if Mr. Berman is gonna pull a Wrath of Kahn/Search For Spock on us. He's not that smart.
posted 11-30-2002 11:53 AM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: Wondering if Mr. Berman is gonna pull a Wrath of Kahn/Search For Spock on us. Well... actually... Kevin, you've read the script. There are similarities.
posted 11-30-2002 12:00 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: See HAL, what ya did?? Now ya got JZ upset..... that'll learn ya to use spoiler alerts!! Dan Aww mannn! Sorry about that JZ and anybody else who got messed up with the comment. I cleaned up the original post. I had a melt down there and wasn't thinking. Just don't put one of those gross worm thingies in my ears.
posted 11-30-2002 01:07 PM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	Jer, My point is that Berman doesn't have the talent to pull off that kind of thing that worked in Kahn. And personally, until I see it for myself, I don't believe what he's been spouting about this villain will be "equal to Kahn." Berman just doesn't have the imagination. K
posted 11-30-2002 02:26 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	No contest...
posted 11-30-2002 02:41 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Kevin: My point is that Berman doesn't have the talent to pull off that kind of thing that worked in Kahn Indeed.... or Khan, even.... Dan
posted 12-01-2002 12:20 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by HAL 2000: Aww mannn! Sorry about that JZ and anybody else who got messed up with the comment. I cleaned up the original post. I had a melt down there and wasn't thinking. Just don't put one of those gross worm thingies in my ears. Siiiggghhh...it's ok. Worm thingy? Tell me more? Jz
posted 12-02-2002 05:19 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: Worm thingy? Tell me more? Watch STAR TREK II: WRATH OF KHAN. Dan
posted 12-02-2002 07:08 AM PT (US)

Dinko Oscar® Winner	I can see this being a terrific score if: - people have very low standards (given the current state of film music that would not be surprising). - people like hearing the same music under a different title. - people have a very short memory. - people have never heard other Goldsmith scores. Other than that, please explain how this is a terrific score? Wasn't it called US Marshals and Deep Rising before it was renamed Nemesis? And Botnick, turn down the bass line a notch, will ya?
posted 12-02-2002 10:10 AM PT (US)

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