NP: Cocoon-track 3 Genesis Count....err The Chase.

NP: Melodious Compile - Akira Ifukube

personally, I'm glad people are starting to criticize Horner more often. He deserves it for, as I've said before, dumbing down his music. He is capable of SO much more than his cut and paste overkill.

there's nothing with demanding that a composer TRY every now and then.
Especially when he's getting a million bucks per picture (or whatever it is the Horn-o-Tron 2000 gets these days).

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Originally posted by JJH:

personally, I'm glad people are starting to criticize Horner more often.

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Have they ever stopped?

By the way, the more I listen to Enemy at the gates, the less the theme sounds like that from Schindler's List.

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Originally posted by wistiti:
By the way, the more I listen to Enemy at the gates, the less the theme sounds like that from Schindler's List.

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Have you LISTENED to them side by side? Here...

CLICK HERE and tell me you don't hear a similarity. I've put the two themes back to back.

Nino Rota's estate sued Horner before when he incorporated AMARCORD into HONEY, I SHRUNK THE KIDS. Supposedly his first version of the Orff ripoff in GLORY was even more egregious than the one we hear now, but since Orff's estate also has some clout, Horner was compelled to rearrange it.

More notes from my mother about James Horner via e-mail (after I had written last night explaining about what a klepto he is):

**** I didn't like his Titanic music either, and got so sick of Celine yowling the theme song that I began to hate her as well. The theme from Enemy at the Gates was so similar that it occurred to me that it might be a Russian or Jewish folk tune, as it sounds very much in that style. The theme is played over and over, and is so evocative of Schindler's List that you begin to see in your head scenes from the Warsaw Ghetto...I'm glad to know what the story is! He uses at least two or three prominent measures (latecomers to music call them "bars," but a bar is the whole strip of score across the page - one line, not one little block) which differ from SL only by a couple of notes. ****

I should add that my mother is an accomplished, if only amateur, pianist, vocalist and composer herself. (For the record, this is my REAL mom, not Board Mommy Joan )

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Originally posted by Hasta:
I've pointed this out to Scott already, if you haven't heard it already, put in Titanic, go to track 10 at the exact time of 6:15... If you haven't heard it, it's identical to his theme in Enemy at the Gates... I do like what JJH said, however... The man should be criticized because he IS capable of so much more.

NP: Hook (Williams) ****/*****

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You hit the nail on the head Hasta, also go to track 22 on the Apollo 13 score or track 11 on the Academy Promo at 2:39 identical as well also at 3:00 on the same cue.

1. Piano :00-:45 (Schindler's) | | 2. Strings and balalaikas :46-1:39 (Enemy) | | 3. Strings (Schindler's) 1:40-2:51

It wasn't a joke, your H'ness!

Jeron

Geezuis!

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Originally posted by Dr.Evil:

Good times when peolple just listen to the music for their own pleasure...
Now , with this internet stuff and all is just "ahah, that guy composed the same theme again!, this composer ripoff Zeca Pagodinho! ".

Geezuis!

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Sorry, nothing personal but can't agree with mr. Evil.

I still remember the days when we finally got the LP of Horner's BRAINSTORM. And when the Main Title started we all cried about how Alan Silvestri had stolen it to use on THE ABYSS, a score which we used to praise but not anymore after our "discovery"...

So things never changed. They just happens faster and we can share with more people now.

The "just sit back and enjoy the music" rhetoric is nothing but a fantasy that die-hard Horner's fans created to justify his ridiculous rip-offs - which are getting more and more annoying with the passage of time.

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Originally posted by André Lux:
The "just sit back and enjoy the music" rhetoric is nothing but a fantasy that die-hard Horner's fans created to justify his ridiculous rip-offs - which are getting more and more annoying with the passage of time.

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Andre, I'm hardly a die-hard Horner fan...

You know, I would love to just "relax and enjoy" next Jimmy Horny score, but I cringe everytime he re-use his 4 note "Kael" motif (which he used in "Project X" for the first time I think) or those anoying piano clashes, or the Prokofief's rip-off, or the... well, you got the point.

And excuse? Why do I have to have an excuse, man? If I want to simply enjoy the music, then that should be cool. The only reason I cringe is because I've been trained to by my peers.

Listen, as we've all said before, we all have different preferences. I'm not a James Horner advocate, and yes, I agree he's turned into a recycling machine. But I'm not gonna let it ruin my day........

NP - Concerto for Guitar (Bernstein)

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Originally posted by Jeron:
But I'm not gonna let it ruin my day........

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Nor I. That's why I don't buy any of his recent scores and try to avoid the movies he scored ligue the plague. He runied a lot of movies for me.

Like I said before, I can't stand someone who's getting (lots of) money to steal from others and re-use his old stuff (when it was original) over and over. When he usded to do this in the begining of his career I could tolerate, but now... What's his excuse?? The same goes to Hanzimmer and his pets.

If you people can enjoy this kind of thing - well, what can I say? Go and be happy! The more people support this kind of thing, more you'll listen to it. I mean, why bother to write something original if we can just put other people's work to play and get rich?

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that it's pointless to discuss Horner because discussing Horner always ends up the same way. We all know he's a Horn-o-tron (as JJ says it). We all know his 80's stuff is much better. We all know his next score will, in all liklihood, sound like a mixture of previous "efforts." What new ground are we covering? From my perspective, everyone is going around in circles making no headway. That's what I get aggravated about... Just as Horner recycles his music, everyone continues to recycle old discussions and arguments.

Jeron

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Originally posted by Jeron:
Yeah, it disturbs me. But like I said, I'm not gonna let it ruin my day. You said Horner has ruined a lot of movies for you. Sounds to me as if you are letting it affect your experience. You can have a great movie and a mediocre score and the movie still be great.

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Well Jeron his HIGHLY derivative scores do disturb me also. Never said it "ruins my day"... It may ruin my movie experience, which is disturbing.

And I do think a bad score (not a mediocre) can ruin a movie - just think on "The Peacemaker" (that "noise" gave me a huge headeache) or "Ladyhawke" (that ludicrous porno-movie pop beat which make us all cringe). Just like a bad movie can ruin a great score ("First Knight" comes to mind).

I liked "Bicentenial Man", but I would like it much more if that "Braveheart" note-by-note "quote" didn't appeared from time to time (just to mention one of all the "quotes")

It just seems that Horner-defilers are overzealous in vocalizing their hatred. You hate him, you hate his work...you and Lou wish he was dead. Got it...move on.

I have now downgraded Horny music to "guilty pleasure." all of it, with the exception of Willow, Krull, Brainstorm and In Country (a personal fave dammit).

"guilty pleasure" meaning, in my book, that your music is at best hackish, but still somewhat fun -- for those in Garland that didn't know. hehe

JERON WROTE:
"I really could care less"

NP- Along Came a Spider! <<-- Look at that, Shaun! RUBRUBRUBRUBRUBRUB!

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Don't yell at Jeron! He's from Texas, he can't help it!

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them's fightin' words!
no one disses Texas!!

re:Jeron, feel free to diss him all you want.