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Author	Topic: Crime of the Year--Snubbing Mission to Mars

Norman McCay Oscar® Winner	Having just watched Mission to Mars recently--and I hate to say it---I have to agree with Andre Lux's sentiment on Morricone's score. It's the BEST film score of the year. And it was a crime that the Oscars overlooked Mission to Mars (is it just me or has Williams been nominated every year whenever he does a dramatic score?). Sure Morricone has been the go-to guy lately for the Academy, but Malena over Mission to Mars? That's just not right. Mission to Mars was absolutely PERFECT for the movie and captured the hollow and spacious vacuum that was Mars (and space in general). Gladiator's music is excellent as a stand-alone piece, but the movie was NOT worthy of Zimmer and Gerard's beautiful score (no, I didn't say that backwards). I listened to both of the Mission to Mars and Gladiator scores BEFORE I watched the two movies. After watching Gladiator, I was thoroughly disappointed that the movie failed to even come close to matching the intensity and the sense of heroism that Zimmer's majestic and roaring music provided. BUT, after I saw Mission to Mars, I found new appreciation for a score which I already thought was brilliant, and that's what a FILM score should do, to give cinematic purpose to the music that it was composed for. Even if Mission to Mars isn't the greatest movie ever, Morricone's touch was just right for the movie. Regardless of its NONmination, it's still the best score of the year in my book.
posted 03-12-2001 01:00 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	AGREED! Very gorgeous score. (Oh but there was this awful organ in it for a few minutes! So it's horrible!)
posted 03-12-2001 01:22 PM PT (US)

Timmer Oscar® Winner	THE ACADEMY AWARDS SUCK! An industry full of back slapping jack asses!! I (sort of ) couldn't care less!!! Along with Pan Tadeusz by Kilar, Mission To Mars is the best score from last year without doubt!
posted 03-12-2001 01:32 PM PT (US)

Tim_P Oscar® Winner	Why has there been so much talk of Mission to Mars lately? I think I know why: the Morricone fans on this board are trying to convince themselves that M2M was a good score. I've got respect for Morricone, but he was totally out of his element for that film. He had no idea what he was doing, so he decided instead to gloss over most of the scenes with thick, melodramatic crap. The use of organ in place of a potentially great action/suspense cue was only the straw that broke the camel's back... The last 10 minutes might make for some dern purdy music- but it doesn't fit the film- only makes it more laughable... The Academy awards composers whose score works within the film. That is why Malena and not M2M was nominated. Tim [Message edited by Tim_P on 03-12-2001]
posted 03-12-2001 01:48 PM PT (US)

Kross Oscar® Winner	Mission to Mars is not worth talking about anymore. So I will only reply with a NO COMMENT referring to the first post since M2M was amazingly bad.
posted 03-12-2001 01:57 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Tim_P:He had no idea what he was doing, so he decided instead to gloss over most of the scenes with thick, melodramatic crap. Morricone has scored more films than the output of many other composers put together. I don't think this is a case of Morricone having no idea what he is doing, the score is very coherent, but rather the listener not understanding what Ennio was doing, and as a result, trying (apparently successfully) to convince himself that M2M was laughable crap.
posted 03-12-2001 02:36 PM PT (US)

Tim_P Oscar® Winner	Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that within Morricone's 300+ filmscore output that he's scored a whole bunch of American space sci-fi films... I've heard enough scores and seen enough movies to know what works and what doesn't. M2M doesn't work. Please enlighten me as to what Morricone was trying to accomplish with his heavy-handed syrupy string writing and pipe organ. I've heard the whole "He's scoring a film about losing a loved one to cancer" spiel. I don't think that theory flies- because the film doesn't revolve around that. It may have been the motivating factor for Gary Sinise at the end, but the majority of the film is about the mission to Mars- hence the title... Tim
posted 03-12-2001 03:18 PM PT (US)

wistiti Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Tim_P: Why has there been so much talk of Mission to Mars lately? Because it's one of the better scores of the past 15 months. quote: I think I know why: the Morricone fans on this board are trying to convince themselves that M2M was a good score. It is a good score. I'm anything but a Morricone fan. I tend to dislike most of his music. But I like Mission to Mars. quote: I've got respect for Morricone, but he was totally out of his element for that film. He had no idea what he was doing, so he decided instead to gloss over most of the scenes with thick, melodramatic crap. Maybe. But I still prefer his "thick, melodramatic crap" than Revell's cheap drums. Or Zimmer's Gladiatorial keyboard banging. Or Newton Howard's orchestral overkills. quote: The use of organ in place of a potentially great action/suspense cue was only the straw that broke the camel's back... Call me crazy, but I like that organ piece. I thought it fit the movie perfectly. And in itself, that piece created half the suspence of the whole scene. quote: The last 10 minutes might make for some dern purdy music- but it doesn't fit the film- only makes it more laughable... Well, if it was that bad, why did they keep it in the movie? Directors work with composers, and composers tend to get fired pretty often these days if the producers, the director or the studio, or the test screening audiences dislike the music. quote: The Academy awards composers whose score works within the film. That is why Malena and not M2M was nominated. Actually, that particular academy tends to mainly award crap.
posted 03-12-2001 05:21 PM PT (US)

webjedi Oscar® Winner	M2M is kind of hit-and-miss. But it still doesn't discount some of it's better moments. I just had a chance to see it on Starz this weekend, and I feel the movie's story had more of a problem than the score. For me, Ennio is "take it or leave it".. some of his stuff is really out standing, and some of his stuff is pure crap. M2M kind of falls in the middle. Personally, I find the score bleeding from the temp track, which obviously was coddled together from all the major sci-fi epics of the past. However, to set the atmosphere of the movie, I think Ennio hit the nail on the head... at least given the theatrical material to work with. Yes, it's overly sappy at points, but then again, so was the movie. The point of the film was wrapped up in the last half hour, so the previous hour + was pure annoying exposition. If the movie was tighter, and of course if Morricone had more time, I'm sure he could have pulled off something that we'd be praising more rather than "if-if-ing" it. I haven't listened to the score since I got the CD last summer, but oddly enough, it's made two rounds on my CD player today, an probably will get a spin later tonight when I get home. (This is a feat considering the 3000+ plus soundtracks I have to pick from). In M2M Ennio fell prey to the temp track, as some composers do from now and again, but at least with it, he's not retreading ground (which Horner has done 4 or 5 times already in Enemy at The Gates). However, I'm not sure the has been a score in 2000 that truly deserves "BEST" credit given what we've had in year previous. Not much has stood out as entirely original, and most of the nominees for the awards this year were pretty passable in my book. Portman's CHOCOLAT was nice, but definitely not Oscar worthy. Zimmer (AND Gerrard's) work for Gladiator was a rehash of Holst and Wagner, which automatically discounts it in my book. Williams' rush job for THE PATRIOT was okay, if only to have it borrow from a lot (and I do mean a lot) of his previous works. It's was overly stereotypical for him to take that tact on the music, but it's probably going to be the one for the Oscar. Morricone's own Malena is a solid effort, but since no one really saw the film, will probably be missed by the Academy and other organizations. If there was going to be a sweep this year, I'm sure Tan Dun's work for CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON will fall prey to the need to shower the film with even more praise. But then again, since we're not voting member's who the heck cares what we think ;-) Better luck this year with film music...
posted 03-12-2001 05:22 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	For the record, Jeron is a BIG FAN of the Mission to Mars score. Go Ennio!
posted 03-12-2001 05:43 PM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Oscar® Winner	I'm with webjedi. M2M is thoroughly uneven in every possible area, except for the script, which is a totally derivative disaster. DePalma's direction sways from the sublime to the ridiculous with such utter passion that I was momentarily convinced I was in the presence of greatness for a minute or two during several parts of the film. Sad. I wanted to love this movie. I tried to love it. I've watched it three times, and there are within it moments that I can love, but overall M2M is a failure. I am a life-long lover of Ennio Morricone's music (and always will be!), but I think that his score served this film well only about 20% of the time. The other 80% calls attention to itself, sometimes distractingly so. This film (and score) contain elements of greatness...that's what causes it to be a source of frustration for me. With additional work, it might have been truly great.
posted 03-12-2001 08:27 PM PT (US)

joan hue Oscar® Winner	In my humble opinion, M2M and Dinosaur were the two best scores of the year, but the Academy must disagree with me. (El Stupidos!) NP Remo Williams
posted 03-12-2001 09:35 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Perhaps we should be grateful the Academy chose to notice Morricone at ALL this year? Howard Shore wrote what I still think is the best score of 2000, THE CELL, and that was a bigger hit than M2M, but was it noticed? Noooo. Fifteen years before, was his amazing work on BIG noticed? Noooo. In the flurry of Oscars awarded to THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, did they bother to notice the vital contribution of Howard Shore? Fill in the answer. Et cetera. It's a shell game, people. (In a similar vein, I think it criminal that Carter Burwell has been overlooked for so long. FARGO would have been amazing no matter what, but that multi-Oscar-nominated picture should also have been cited for Burwell's indelible music.)
posted 03-12-2001 11:02 PM PT (US)

MattStar Oscar® Winner	I haven't been able to figure out the Academy for a couple of years now. If Gladiator sweeps big this year including the Best Score, I'll be sorely disappointed (just as I was last year with American Beauty). Zimmer's score has a couple of good moments but only when he's trying to be Wagner. But, back to the topic at hand, Morricone's score for M2M is fantastic (Dinosaur was also one of the best scores of the year). It was the best thing about the movie and one of the best scores of the last several years. In my opinion, the score to M2M is this year's Phantom Menace. A great score in a not-too-good movie that should have been recognized.
posted 03-12-2001 11:02 PM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	I waited and hungered for this movie...I think that was why my initial reaction to this "confused" film was so harsh...perhaps I was expecting a classic, maybe even conventional movie...sad to say that is not what I got. I hold DePalma and the script responsible for the films failings, and upon a repeated viewing I decided to give the score a break. I love the spacewalk music, however, Ennio showed how out of place he was with the organ music. However, considering how languid and dull that entire scene was I still can only hold DePalma responsible. I will not dismiss the score out of hand for this one piece of music...but the best of the year...come on!
posted 03-13-2001 07:47 AM PT (US)

Greg Bryant Oscar® Winner	quote: is it just me or has Williams been nominated every year whenever he does a dramatic score? No it's true. Last night on Jeopardy, in the category of "Oscars in the 90's" the Daily Double was "He was nominated 12 times for best music score, winning once for Schindler's List." The question, an obvious giveaway, "Who is John Williams?"
posted 03-13-2001 10:16 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Norman McCay: Having just watched Mission to Mars recently--and I hate to say it---I have to agree with Andre Lux's sentiment on Morricone's score. It's the BEST film score of the year. YES! I love to be right!! Ennio Morricone is, by far, the best composer of film music still working these days. Only Jerry Goldsmith can match him. MISSION TO MARS is a score which grows on every new listen. Too bad some people just can dig it (yes, I know, they hate that "organ"!! ) Well no one is perfect... MALENA is quite good - pure Morricone vintage - but MISSION TO MARS is indeed much better! But who cares about the OSCAR?? GO ENNIO!!
posted 03-13-2001 02:53 PM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	Andre...does that mean if someone agree's with my sentiment that "I AM RIGHT!"...or perhaps we are just less than perfect. Wink...
posted 03-13-2001 03:29 PM PT (US)

Kross Oscar® Winner	We all wish the Oscars picked what we want but they never do. Dinosaur and M2M are horrible pieces of trash. I am not tyring to be mean but there is nothign interesting involved there! Eveything in boht scores sound like any other score made, only for two very very horrible films! M2M gets 0/5 Dino gets 0/5 WHy are we talkibg about these two rather dull and unoriginal films when there are so many more ORIGINAL and amazing films that happen to have a great score, especially compared to those two trash bags. I will not mention M2M unless I abosolutley have to. Those on the board know how bad it is so no use in discussing it any further. END of M2M for me.
posted 03-13-2001 03:50 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	I totally agree with all the positive sentiments expressed here about M2M. Until I saw that film I had never seen a movie scored by Morricone, nor did I own any Morricone music, save for a few short pieces on a compilation or two. But I was absolutely in awe over the score, and the risky way it complimented the film. I found the score to work quite well with the images on screen, and actually made the visually interesting but otherwise forgettable film much more enjoyable than it probably would have been with a safer musical approach. IMHO, it was definitely the second-best score of the year. H Rocco: I didn't think so at first, but after repeated listening and analysis, I agree with you... The Cell was the best score of the year. James
posted 03-13-2001 04:28 PM PT (US)

joan hue Oscar® Winner	Kross, you said, "Those on the board know how bad it is, so no use in discussing it any further." I'm reading that a lot of members on the board DO like Morricone's M2M score. I don't think that M2M or Dinosaur were good movies, but I think they had great scores. Just a difference in taste. NP Indian in the Cupboard
posted 03-13-2001 05:11 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	The Oscars continue to boggle the mind when it comes to best score. So many great scores past over for crap.
posted 03-13-2001 06:20 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Wow, Captain, you me and THE CELL against the rest of the world M2M is really your first Morricone? You've got SOME catchin' up to do, pal! I'd recommend starting with the Sergio Leone/Clint Eastwood westerns (THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY etc.) and THE MISSION (although I find the movie horribly tedious, the score is insanely beautiful.)
posted 03-13-2001 08:49 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by joan hue: Kross, you said, "Those on the board know how bad it is, so no use in discussing it any further." I'm reading that a lot of members on the board DO like Morricone's M2M score. Indeed Joan. He is among the minorities here. N.P.: MISSION TO MARS (Morricone) *****
posted 03-14-2001 08:34 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	Funny how anyone could assume who is in the minority or majority on this board. If you listened to some of the more prevalent voices on this board you would think that Gladiator was a mediocre to terrible score...however, the current poll says differently. I think if we all stood up and raised hands you would see a pretty even split on this issue. I think its a pretty good score...it just didn't do anything for me, and was not fitting for its film.
posted 03-14-2001 08:59 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Quill: Gladiator was a mediocre to terrible score... Yes, I agree with Quill. The score he just mentioned is indeed awful. Thank God no one believe on those ludicrous polls, where anyone can vote several times on the same thing just by deleting the cookies.
posted 03-14-2001 12:01 PM PT (US)

wistiti Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by André Lux: Yes, I agree with Quill. The score he just mentioned is indeed awful. [Message edited by wistiti on 03-14-2001]
posted 03-14-2001 12:30 PM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	You need new material Andre. The first twenty times you pulled the copy and twist joke was funny, not any more... The point is still valid...how can you assume what everyone else here feels about this score...oh wait, I forgot, you consider any opinions toward Mission to Mars as uninformed or idiotic if they happen to be negative, and you simply dismiss them out of hand. Oh, and who around here would bother wasting time voting for the same thing over and over again...sounds like your grasping now. Cheers
posted 03-14-2001 01:49 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Quill: You need new material Andre. The first twenty times you pulled the copy and twist joke was funny, not any more... Ok. This day forth one shall call me André Zimmer Hanz-Horner. Now I will get rich!!
posted 03-14-2001 02:19 PM PT (US)

Timmer Oscar® Winner	Greetings Andre Zimmer Hanz-Horner...have you posted here before? I certainly look forward to more posts! p.s. Can you send me a few bob when the money starts rolling in! [Message edited by Timmer on 03-14-2001]
posted 03-14-2001 05:09 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by H Rocco: M2M is really your first Morricone? You've got SOME catchin' up to do, pal! Since M2M I've also bought THE MISSION and THE LEGEND OF 1900, both of which I loved. The westerns are my next stop... James
posted 03-14-2001 08:01 PM PT (US)

John Maher Oscar® Winner	I'm not sure what this means, but I hate movies that take place in outer space. I cannot think of one film that I liked, that took place in outer space; except one - "Mission To Mars". Love that film, and its incredible score. LOVE IT! John
posted 03-15-2001 06:31 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	I guess you would have to hate the genre to enjoy Mission to Mars in its full capacity...I'm not suggesting its a poor film (it does have excellent production values...and a decent score...shhhhh)
posted 03-15-2001 07:45 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Wrong, since I rather enjoy science-fiction and also loved MISSION TO MARS - even with all its faults and cheesy dialogues. Thanks!
posted 03-15-2001 10:32 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	Wrong..."in its full capacity" Meaning you would have to enjoy the cheesy dialogue and enjoy the faults...if you did, well then....
posted 03-15-2001 11:06 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Now you made sense, mate! Cheers.
posted 03-15-2001 04:27 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	I like this score more every time I listen to it. I'm even getting use to the organ music. It also helps to listen to it in the right sequence... Thanks André. NP: Mission to Mars
posted 03-15-2001 08:19 PM PT (US)

OHMSS76 Oscar® Winner	Since this is the first MtoM thread that came up in search, I must add my praise to this score. Lux, my hot dog barbequing friend, you were right! This is one of the best of the year(whichever year it came out...I'm a bit behind ) Got this last night, and it's just incredible....Morricone paints 'space' unlike we've heard before. No wonder all the SW croud didn't get it...no big fanfares,thundering noise percussion...haven't we had enough of that for awhile? Just put it on, recline and stargaze for 62 glorious minutes...now I must rent the film this weekend. NP:The Mummy-Complete(Goldsmith) Best, Sean
posted 06-08-2001 08:13 AM PT (US)

mtodd Oscar® Winner	I was at one of the scoring sessions for this movie, no one there seemed upset at the approach...DePalma came out ONCE (during the recording of the music when the ship is decompressing) and said: It needs more tension...I don't think he scrapped the cue though 'cause it sounds the same in the movie. He took the style of the music and used it more effectively (maybe more sentimentally?) in MALENA so I can't argue with the nomination.
posted 06-08-2001 08:53 AM PT (US)

OHMSS76 Oscar® Winner	Mtodd, are you the same chap who wrote about the session in Soundtrack Magazine, who was able to sit in the middle of the orchestra? If you are.....dammit you're lucky! If not, your lucky anyway I re-read that article while playing this last night, and after going back and reading the rest of this thread, I cannot understand why people are down on this score. Taken as an album(still haven't seen the film), it's wondeful....or maybe I'm just biased for Morricone, since he's in my top 3 composers. And for all those who were wondering about 'The Academy'....just give up. I did years ago, and won't even watch the damn thing anymore. It's a total joke, and will do nothing but cause frustration. NP:Oasis(Tangerine Dream)Guess I'm asking to be fragged for all this Sean
posted 06-08-2001 09:00 AM PT (US)

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