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Author	Topic: POWDER

SEBULBA Oscar® Winner	O.K. I just saw Powder used in a store. Is this a good score to get? And isn't it out of print? That alone I guess would make it worth it.
posted 02-04-2000 04:49 PM PT (US)

sabbey Oscar® Winner	Yes it definitely is worth getting, especially if you are an Jerry Goldsmith fan. IIRC, CDNOW has if for less than $10. Sean Robert Abbey
posted 02-04-2000 05:05 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Great score... in fact, you've inspired me to play it! Definitely a must for JG fans. Jeron NP - Powder (Goldsmith)
posted 02-04-2000 09:18 PM PT (US)

Andre Lux unregistered	"Powder" is one of Goldsmith most touching and powerful scores. The movie is ok, but it got even better thanks to mr. G gorgeous score! The final scene is among those who will make your cry.
posted 02-05-2000 06:22 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	POWDER is a rare recent Goldsmith score to recall the textures of LEGEND (no choir in POWDER, though). Nice and warm, though a lot of others are crazier about it than me. The final cue "Everywhere" is spectacular, though. (The film's actual end title is represented on the disc as "Theme from Powder.") Sarah Brightman recorded a vocal of the Theme entitled "Someone Like You." I haven't heard it.
posted 02-05-2000 12:27 PM PT (US)

Thor Oscar® Winner	I was a bit disappointed by this one, so I sold it a couple of years ago. Maybe that was a bit premature, but I don't feel Goldsmith is at his most comfortable while writing intimate, subdued scores such as POWDER (ISLANDS IN THE STREAM excepted, of course). It was rather boring with little variation, a "rugged" John Barry, so to speak. But OK.
posted 02-07-2000 04:11 AM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Thor, JG is the most comfortable WHILE scoring intimate, emotional scores. He loves projects like Islands in the Stream, Rudy, Medicine Man, River Wild, etc... and prefers those to large action, though we all know he does both wonderfully. Jeron
posted 02-07-2000 04:56 AM PT (US)

Andre Lux unregistered	Jeron's 100% right. "Powder" is a perfect score. I didn't like it at first tough. But everything changed after I saw the movie... Man... Jerry's score just carries the movie on it's back. Marvelous, marvelous... One of his best to date. Everywhere...
posted 02-07-2000 06:43 AM PT (US)

SEBULBA Oscar® Winner	Well, I guess I better go get the score, heh?
posted 02-07-2000 08:14 AM PT (US)

Thor Oscar® Winner	Jeron: Sorry. I misphrased myself. I am aware of the fact that Jerry himself has said that he feels more at home with the small scores. What I meant is that I personally don't think HE COMES TO HIS RIGHT in those scores. It is the odd metre, rapid fire rhythms that really separate JG from the herd. It's THAT which is his style, so to speak, his indelible trademark. Some of his more romantic melodies seem to be a bit "mushy" or overblown and yes, somewhat clichéed. That's just my opinion, of course. Suffice to say that JG is my third favourite composer, and that's mostly because of his action or tense scores, and not so much things like POWDER.
posted 02-07-2000 08:50 AM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	When Powder came out, I played it over the sound system in one of the retail stores I was supervising. My nephew, who was working for me at the time, asked me where that music was from. He was amazed by it and bought it the next day. I said all of that to say this. The score is just awsome. A little short but the main theme is one of the best themes ever written. It frustrates me to no end that some people contiune to argue that Goldsmith can only write good action music. His slower, warmer themes can compete with any other's composer's, including Williams (who is my fave) and certainly Horner. Scott NP:Biscential Man (**/***)
posted 02-07-2000 12:48 PM PT (US)

JoeInSanDiego Oscar® Winner	A good friend of mine and I went to see the movie and, of course, I LOVED the film and the score. His response was..."Don't you think he got too carried away with the strings?" All I said, in response to this was, "Go back to your Phillip Glass collection..." Stupid response, but I am not known for my witty reportoir... or am I? :-/ [This message has been edited by JoeInSanDiego (edited 07 February 2000).]
posted 02-07-2000 01:13 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	OK, so I'm not completely enamored with this Goldsmith score as many others seem to be. I prefer Goldsmith in a cooler, more emotionally detached mode. Here he goes for the full emotional sweep as James Horner is inclined to do. I'm just not to keen on that type of scoring. HOWEVER, there is some very powerful music in this score and yes, "Everywhere" will bring you to tears every time. Nevertheless, this is not the most powerful moment of the score for me. The best scored scene in the whole movie is the death/transference scene in the forest when the deer dies. Intense and terrifyingly anguished writing for the strings. When I left the theatre this is the scene that would not leave me.
posted 02-07-2000 01:29 PM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	Last night I watched Powder for the first time and it was also the first time I had ever heard its music. You know, I was there when Lorien & Jerry talked about Powder in Detroit and owing to this conversation and Lorien's continuous championing of this soundtrack, I finally rented the video (OK, it was on Fox-TV last week & I missed it). No sooner had the very first few notes gone by than I just kicked back and lost myself. The Detroit thing has added a whole new ambience to the Goldsmith experience for me; kicking back for Powder was the equivalent of cozying up by the fireplace with a good book. Goldsmith's music for Powder was my good book. This was one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Sure, it's unrelenting in its sentiment and all, but damn if that guy doesn't have the knack for creating a mood and then holding to its integrity. The story was pure allegory and the movie was pure unabashed coming-of-age Americana that would have done the sentimental 40s proud. Positively beautiful score. The opening of the main theme, by the way, is highly reminiscent of the "innocent love theme" composed for A Summer Place by Max Steiner in 1959. But Mr. G, as usual, has such a gift for making the whole thing sound wholly original that I'm only mentioning this for comparative "ear" purposes.
posted 07-30-2000 03:36 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by sabbey: IIRC, CDNOW has if for less than $10. Dammit! I recently placed an order at CDNow, but I forgot about Powder!
posted 07-31-2000 04:34 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	well then place ANOTHER, Marian! Has anyone heard the Sarah Brightman vocal version she recorded of the theme? Called "Someone Like You," as I mentioned above, months and months ago? I've seen it for sale, but never remember to look for it at the used CD stores. Since it wasn't on the album -- surely they'd have put it on there to help promote the film, if it had been done at the same time as the film -- my feeling was that she saw the film, simply liked the theme, and decided to put words to it. Hey, if there's a video of "Someone Like You," wouldn't that be Goldsmith's first, however inadvertant, appearance on MTV!?!?
posted 07-31-2000 02:33 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	Not if you count sampling. His killer bee music from The Swarm has appeared in a video for Wu Tang Clan.
posted 07-31-2000 02:47 PM PT (US)

mlw Oscar® Winner	The worst Goldsmith score this side of The Shadow (uh, I meant Congo, or was it IQ?). It's pretty drippy on the unearned sentimentality, a case of a composer basically at a loss as to what to make of this weirdo schlock and indulging his new fondness for Romance and sweetness with this overblown bit of Mahleriana. Harmless and apparently deeply affecting to those in need of a little sympathy
posted 07-31-2000 04:03 PM PT (US)

joan hue Oscar® Winner	So the score to POWDER is, “apparently deeply affecting to those in need of a little sympathy.” Didn’t know I had that need, but then I have REAL blood in my veins and arteries and a heart, and emotions, you..you..you.. robotic, zombieized GUMP-HATER!! (and you know I’m just joshing, sort of, a little.. ) NP Bandolero
posted 07-31-2000 09:04 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	WHOA, Mr. 2000! Kindly tell us WHICH Wu-Tang Clan song sampled THE SWARM? (I assume you've all heard of the PLANET OF THE APES samples from the rap-fusion piece "Trout," as heard on Milan's CD of ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU, although it's not in the film. I only mention it about once a month.) Does Goldsmith have a big following among rappers? It would only be appropriate, since he's admitted that HE likes rap ... [This message has been edited by H Rocco (edited 31 July 2000).]
posted 07-31-2000 09:51 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	Unfortunately, I can't recall. It was a couple of years back. There were bees in the video so the use of the music was relevant I suppose. Lucas Kendall claims to have had some responsibility for getting the music on and whether the sample is on the actual song or was just used in the video I don't know. If you're really interested to know you may try e-mailing Kendall himself.
posted 08-01-2000 07:37 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Thanks for the thought, but the chances of my e-mailing Kendall for any reason are pretty slim ...
posted 08-01-2000 09:25 AM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Oscar® Winner	I listened to the "songs" (I'm cringing at the very thought of calling rap songs "songs") a year or so ago, and it's my guess that the sampled cues are only in the video. That is, unless I'm an idiot. Shaun
posted 08-01-2000 11:15 AM PT (US)

Bulldog Oscar® Winner	POWDER is a truly great score--a PATCH OF BLUE for its time, ruined (to the repeat listener) on album by a bad recording and, gulp, less than sensational NPO rendition. Perhaps, dare I say it, but, a smaller orchestra would have been more appropriate for such a work. This is one time when the orchestration of a Goldsmith score really bugged me (also when Courage first began really taking over orchestrating duties from the late, great A. Morton). I wish it would be rerecorded by the now superior Bruce Botnick with Goldsmith's now superior recording techniques. Certainly, this is the antithesis of HOLLOW MAN. (One could get the impression that both is the same movie from the art designs for each's posters/albums, etc.) What EVERY GOLDSMITH FAN SHOULD HEAR/HAVE is the GLORIOUS song Sarah Brightman sings based on the score's melody. Get this at least with if not before the actual score disc. It is absolutely beautiful. It is, to me, the realization of what POWDER instumentally could have been and, sadly for whatever reason, was not. I do like the score for POWDER, and in listening to it, can get beyong the poor sound on disc--especially after hearing Ms. Brightman's song. To me, the gem of the score album though is "Steven and the Snow."
posted 08-01-2000 11:40 AM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	Funny thing is that the Wu Tang album that features the cut (is that better Shaun?) is question is entitled THE SWARM.
posted 08-01-2000 11:46 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	POWDER is indeed a great score. Beautiful, warm, delicate and breathtaking. My favorite tracks are "Steven and Snow" and "Everywhere". POWDER, both movie and score, begs for a more refined taste to be truly appreciated....
posted 08-01-2000 03:49 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Oscar® Winner	I'm at a loss here, guys. Maybe it's my "stuffed shells and pudding" tastes, but I just can't listen to Powder. Hated the film (once you know the story behind the director of the film, you'll see the movie more as a thinly veiled "autobiography"). Maybe that's it. Maybe I just want to like The Edge more (its theme is pretty much Powder, and its B-theme is rewritten First Knight). I don't know. Shaun NP--Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
posted 08-01-2000 05:38 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	I don't think "the story behind the film" is the only reason one should be weirded out by POWDER. I think it's deeply disturbing all by itself, as are all the other pictures by the same writer-director (yes, I've seen three of them -- it's the "God, I can't stop watching this traffic accident" effect -- it's a real tossup as to which one is creepiest). I don't listen to the album much, except for the cue "Everywhere," part of which does knock me out. The parts that I mentioned sounding like LEGEND are interesting as well. There also seem to be several echoes of FOREVER YOUNG, not a great score, but rather nice, I thought. NP: RINGO: IL CAVALIERE SOLITARIO (Francesco DeMasi) (hey, there's an electric guitar in here! I can TELL they must have stolen that from Hans Zimmer's BROKEN ARROW! You Europeans! Have you no laws, no standards?! Wait a minute, Zimmer is European too. Well, that just makes it worse! I'm not sure HOW it does, but I AM sure THAT it DOES!) [This message has been edited by H Rocco (edited 01 August 2000).]
posted 08-01-2000 05:46 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Strange. I don't see anything wrong with "POWDER". On the contrary. It's very well done, with a very strong and necessary message. Of course there's a homosexual undertone through it, but it's rather discreet and never bothered me. But I never considered myself a homophobic person.
posted 08-01-2000 06:08 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	"A homosexual undertone" wouldn't bother me in itself. How could I have sat through Joel Schumacher's BATMAN pictures in that event? I've seen this whole debate about the notorious Victor Salva before, and won't encourage it today. Although I do feel a kind of sympathy for him -- all his pictures scream variations of "Please feel sorry for me, I'm so lonely and twisted!" He must be a very sad man.
posted 08-01-2000 06:15 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by H Rocco: well then place ANOTHER, Marian! Already did!
posted 08-01-2000 06:33 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	attaboy
posted 08-01-2000 06:37 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by H Rocco: How could I have sat through Joel Schumacher's BATMAN pictures in that event? Eeeeeeeeca! Maybe because you're a sado-masochist?? Anyway, I haven't seem all Salva movies. But the one I saw seems to cry: "Stop judging people just because they are different from you. Tolerance is a virtue. Learn from it!" or something like that. More like something like that...
posted 08-01-2000 09:18 PM PT (US)

Bulldog Oscar® Winner	True perhaps, Andre. Still, I wouldn't go camping with the guy.
posted 08-03-2000 12:10 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	POWDER is certainly Salva's most accessible movie, and I think it was a modest hit, despite all the bad publicity around it, for the very message Andre saw in it, and a lot of others did too. I believe the video is a popular seller as well. Salva's tribute to Goldsmith in the liner notes is sincere and rather touching. Schumacher and BATMAN ... years ago, BEFORE the Broadway musical of BATMAN was announced, MAD TV did a sketch with a Schumacher imitator describing that very thing! "My vision of Batman is ... Tommy Tune!" It was roaringly funny, I might have it on tape someplace. (I feel a little irritated that I even feel the need to point this out, but: to any gay readers on the Board, please don't think I'm being insulting! I'm afraid I belong to the "everything and anything can be funny" school of thinking.) (Exchange from Kevin Smith's underrated MALLRATS: "No, I don't hate gay people!" "Oh, so that means you love them." "Yes! I mean no!" Oh, the balls we sometimes have to juggle. Wait a minute, what am I saying! I should stop now ...)
posted 08-03-2000 12:46 PM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	My take was that Powder was a symbol of innocence. Call me naive if you wish, but the only semi-overt homosexual reference occurred in the scene at the gym near the end. Then again, I know full well what Salva did to that kid from the Clownhouse movie, so if you wish to infer Powder as a symbol of persecuted homosexuals you may have grounds. Either way and per previous mention, a lot of understated discretion was employed. And to my reckoning...successfully.
posted 08-03-2000 01:57 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	I don't think POWDER is about persecuted gays. The nearly continuous homoerotic undertones in ALL of Salva's movies are less about sexuality than they are, as POWDER most successfully was, about "feeling different." All of Salva's pictures feature persecuted central characters; the weirdest and most evocative is NATURE OF THE BEAST (I didn't say it was good, mind you, but it IS a strangely compelling mirror of what must be going on in that guy's mind. Splendid lead performance by Lance Henriksen, as well, who next turned up in a rare good-guy role in POWDER.) I thought it significant that Powder, in makeup and costuming (right down to the hat and sunglasses) so closely resembles a more famous pedophile than Salva (although a formally unconvicted one): Michael Jackson, whose own career and unfathomable publicity stunts resembles a kind of continuous public meltdown. Salva and Jackson have another thing in common: through their work, they are continuously trying to portray themselves (Jackson explicitly, Salva implicitly) as outsiders, as misunderstood people too special for this world (the very concept of the Powder character is emblematic of this kind of thinking), who feel things and can imagine and do things that none of the rest of us can, and since we can't understand them anyway, we should just leave them to their own worlds, and then feel sorry for them because they've locked themselves away from the rest of us, because we just don't appreciate them enough. As if we ever could, because we're just not as good as them. POWDER might not have opened so well if it had gotten its R rating instead of the final, kid-friendlier PG-13. Salva shot a gratuitous full-frontal nude scene of Powder that didn't make it into the final cut (although I read someplace it played that way in Europe, where they're less antsy about that kind of thing.) Reading about this, I was reminded of the strange, out-of-noplace naked-butt shot of the boy hero in CLOWNHOUSE (yes, the same kid he molested on videotape.) I found that moment jarring LONG before I knew about Salva's history. I should point out that I'm NOT suggesting homosexuality is the same thing as pedophilia: statistically, many of those who are pedophiles don't even care about the gender of the kids they go after. (These threads go off on such bizarre tangents ...) Actually, I'd watch any upcoming movie Salva makes. To quote the estimable cult filmmaker John Waters, "I like directors who take me into their world, even if I hate their world." It may be like an endless psychological train wreck, but Salva's world is sometimes twistedly fascinating. NP: I should say POWDER, heh, but actually nothing's on except the AC.
posted 08-03-2000 02:35 PM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	The image of Powder in suit & fedora reminded me of The Invisible Man Returns with Vincent Price. He had lifted similar attire off a scarecrow. ********************************************************* [Message edited by PeterK on 10-08-2001]
posted 08-04-2000 10:10 AM PT (US)

Kris Koon Oscar® Winner	Here is the page at CDNow for that Brightman album with the vocal version of Powder. The song title is "No One Like You". There is a 1-minute RealAudio clip of the song available.
posted 08-04-2000 11:16 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	why thank you, I will check that out.
posted 08-04-2000 11:23 AM PT (US)

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