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When Star Was started heading downhill

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Author	Topic: When Star Was started heading downhill

MusicMan Non-Standard Userer	The first 2 Star Wars films were great! "Return of the Jedi" was entertaining, but was the beginning of the road that has brought us to Star Wars today. What is the one "thing" that was included in both "A New Hope" and "The Empire Strikes Back" that is missing in all subsequent Star Wars films? The answer: long time producer, friend and partner of George Lucas, GARY KURTZ. Most people credit George Lucas for the "greatness" of Star Wars. However, Gary was very, very instrumental in the story, look and feel of what we came to love as "Star Wars." Gary is not widely credited for his influence over the first 2 films, but he was just as important as George in the development and making of the first two films. Notice after Gary left, just before "Jedi," how the other Star Wars films have turned out. Now on his own, Gary Kurtz produced "The Dark Crystal," "The Return to OZ" and "Slipstream." These were not the best films in the world. Perhaps George and Gary need to team up again for Episode III and bring us a fitting end to the Star Wars saga.
posted 05-16-2002 12:28 AM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Personally, I think the franchise is in dire need of a good writer more than it is a friendly old producer... and perhaps someone who will respect the music a little more (George should leave his hands off everything that doesn't have a digital root).
posted 05-16-2002 01:22 AM PT (US)

bdemon Non-Standard Userer	Yes, George could use a little more writing input, but he's in such a great position right now, from a creative standpoint. If the film studio, Fox, were in control of the property, would it really be much better? I don't know. More likely, it would be rewritten to death and Jar Jar Binks would have been the lead in Phantom Menace. Most of his past films have involved other writers fleshing out his story ideas. Lawrence Kasdan wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark, ya know? I think the problem is that Lucas has spent most of his years become a great producer and tech developer instead of a writer. But hey...I'm gonna enjoy ATOC regardless. All this nitpicking must show how much we like the stories, no? Keith
posted 05-16-2002 09:24 AM PT (US)

jeffy unregistered	I think everyone around Lucas needs to stop being yes-men (and women). Someone needs to say, "Let's try this instead."
posted 05-16-2002 12:02 PM PT (US)

Indysolo Standard Userer	quote: But hey...I'm gonna enjoy ATOC regardless. "So certain are you?" Neil
posted 05-16-2002 12:06 PM PT (US)

JeffBond Standard Userer	Other writers were instrumental in all of the first Star Wars movies. Star Wars' script was worked on by Willard Hyuck and Gloria Katz of American Graffiti (and, admittedly, later Howard the Duck...); Empire's story was worked out by Leigh Brackett (a legendary sci fi/fantasy author and screenwriter on The Big Sleep)--and of course Empire and Jedi had Lawrence Kasdan.
posted 05-16-2002 12:36 PM PT (US)

Kevin Standard Userer	Face it. What has GL done good after Star Wars? Nothing. (I'm not including Raiders in this, as Mr. S had a lot to do with those films succeeding). Willow? If any of it's good, it's due to Ron Howard. And don't get me started on the debacle that is "Howard the Duck." I'm sure everyone associated with that film would love to have their wasted time back. Kevin [Message edited by Kevin on 05-16-2002]
posted 05-16-2002 02:58 PM PT (US)

Ed Standard Userer	Of course, there are the two "Ewok Adventure" movies which turned out to be disturbingly accurate predictors of the tone of the SW prequels. Mr. George Lucas was credited as "exec producer" and give "story" credit on both.
posted 05-16-2002 03:06 PM PT (US)

Indysolo Standard Userer	Don't forget Radioland Murders. Neil
posted 05-17-2002 10:05 AM PT (US)

sakman Standard Userer	May I suggest that the only problem with the SW films today is that many of you commenting are now no longer teenagers and have learned to want and expect more from a movie?
posted 05-18-2002 06:41 PM PT (US)

Hasta Standard Userer	For what it's worth (and no doubt due to nostolgia reasons), I enjoy Howard the Duck more than I did Attack of the Clones.
posted 05-18-2002 07:05 PM PT (US)

El Cid Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sakman: May I suggest that the only problem with the SW films today is that many of you commenting are now no longer teenagers and have learned to want and expect more from a movie? So you think the (adult) professional critics panned the original Star Wars movies?
posted 05-18-2002 07:15 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	Jeff is correct in part. A number of director friends had a go at the New Hope script just for fun (and later bitched because Lucas didn't give them points). Leigh Brackett was called in on Empire, but it's likely her contributions were entirely re-written and she was just given screen credit. No, I think the success and failure of these films resides completely with Lucas, who's on top of everything anyway. The filmmaker of New Hope and Empire is just not the same guy as the filmmaker of Menace and Clones. The original trilogy had characters we could identify with. The latest trilogy looks good visually but the characters are stiff and the ideas more cliche. And it's not even that Lucas needs better writers, it's that he needs to catch where things are old hat and there are better solutions. Take one point in Clones: Ani is hit, looks hurt, Amidala rushes to him, he's fooling, she gets mad, and soon they're rolling around in the grass. This bit was already old in silent movies.
posted 05-19-2002 02:41 AM PT (US)

Andr� Lux Standard Userer	STAR WARS never went "downhill". It was (and still is) just kid's movies, filled with poor dialogue, naive plots and escapist adventure. It's not George Lucas fault that most of the kids and teenagers who saw the movie back then are now just repressed and frustrated midle-aged people, who want him to give back their "joy for life"... Pathetic, really.
posted 05-20-2002 06:25 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Standard Userer	You've always had people skills Andre.... Jz
posted 05-20-2002 06:40 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	Actually for once I agree with Andre. He hit the nail on the head.
posted 05-20-2002 07:39 AM PT (US)

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