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Author	Topic: SPARTACUS

joan hue Standard Userer	This month Encore is showing the “director’s cut” of SPARTACUS. Unfortunately, I’ve only managed to watch part of it. I need a question answered. I’ve noticed a couple of times that some of you have mentioned that Kubrick wanted his name removed from it as its director. I’d like to know why he was so upset. It certainly is different from his later movies. More mainstreamed, I guess, but it is so well told and acted. What was his problem with it? Early thanks to any of you who can enlighten me. Hope North wasn’t dismayed with his wonderful score. Much more modern sounding action cues than I had previously noticed. NP Predator II
posted 08-09-2000 10:40 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	Spartacus in either form, is fantastic. One of my favorites. "I'm Spartacus" scene is great. All the the North cues throughout the film are fantastic. I particularly like all from the last one-third of film. Great stuff. All the Roman Legion music to the end. The suspense cues where Crassus is trying to find out who Spartacus is and when he discovers it and confronts him. Great cues. All top notch. One of my favorite cues in the film is the battle cue just after the legions march up for the final battle. They start maneuvering and marching up toward Spartacus' army. Great music. John.
posted 08-10-2000 05:21 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	As one of the stalwart Spartacus banner-carriers of the board, I must chime in with my support of this film, and a quick mention that it's just about time Varese and Jerry Goldsmith got around to recording this score like they said they would almost a decade ago... Kubrick had "disowned" Spartacus for several reasons, not least of which was probably the amount of power wielded over the production by both Kirk Douglas and Edward Lewis. This was a big, studio production (keep in mind that Kubrick had only really been involved with lower-budget features at the time, and even had the original ending of Paths of Glory defended by Douglas) and much of the control that he later became so famous for would have been allowed him. Even the decision to hire Alex North was not his (Douglas even mentions North's score in his book The Ragman's Son). Nevertheless, North was quite happy with his score, I understand. Not only is it almost wall-to-wall in the film, it is many times given a leading role in the drama (such as the scene in which Spartacus returns to the gladiator school). North participated in the project to re-record the score with Varese Sarabande before his death, a project which seems to have fallen by the wayside once again. Anyway, Spartacus, both the film and the score by itself, is one of the best representations of the possibilities of art within the studio system.
posted 08-10-2000 08:41 PM PT (US)

joan hue Standard Userer	Thank you Swash and John for your information and insights. I will find the time to watch all of it, carefully noting the music cues you both addressed. I wondered if Douglas exercised a lot of power as I noticed that he was executive producer. I would have still hoped that Kubrick would find some pride in such a fine movie. NP Boy Who Could Fly
posted 08-11-2000 10:55 PM PT (US)

Timmer Standard Userer	Hi Joan (mom ), Were you aware that Anthony Hopkins voices Laurence Oliviers lines in the infamous 'Oysters and Snails' segment of the film with Tony Curtis?!, when they replaced the scene the original soundtrack was missing, so in came Hopkins to re-do the scene! NP : A Far Off Place - Horner
posted 08-12-2000 05:04 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Standard Userer	I'm just waiting for the Criterion DVD release, which should be out in December, IIRC.
posted 08-12-2000 09:30 AM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	One more interesting thing about the film, Joan. They brought in a sword fighting expert in dealing with the heavy type of sword used in ancient Rome. He was training all the main actors in the proper use of that particular sword. Tony Curtis, John Ireland and some of the others were very good students and followed his instructions closely. Douglas on the other hand, was quite arrogant and said "Let's try it this way" and would not listen to him. In the end he finally came around when he saw how bad the scenes looked using his technique. This reminds me of something that happened at the CENTO Shooting matches in Grafenwohr, Germany in Fall 1971. Will save for another time. Best, John.
posted 08-12-2000 01:52 PM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Standard Userer	Ya' beat me to it again, Timmer ol' chum! Anthony Hopkins receives a special acknowledgement in the end "The Restoration" credits, although it isn't noted what service he performed. I have always been in love with Kubrick the artist, but I run hot and cold on Kubrick the man. He was never above hogging credit undue him. Douglas Trumbull's Oscar for 2001 sits in Stanley's home with Stanley's name engraved on it. If we are to believe Kirk Douglas' account, he deserves as much credit for Spartacus as does Kubrick. Perhaps this has something to do with Kubrick's resentment of the film. It has always been one of my favorites, and the restoration has improved it! The "Oysters & Snails" scene is wonderful, as is the added length of Jean Simmons' goodbye at the end. I didn't believe it was possible to wrench any more tears out of me at that climax, but her added, "Die! Die! Oh, why won't you DIE!" absolutely reduces me to a puddle of slush every time I see it.
posted 08-12-2000 07:43 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	My favorite part of this score is when Spartacus and Antoninus are waiting to fight in the Temple the next day. Antoninus questions Spartacus about mortality, and what they actually achieved. North uses a quiet, introspective version of Spartacus' theme here for strings. It's one of the most moving pieces in a moving score.
posted 08-13-2000 12:36 PM PT (US)

Timmer Standard Userer	Hi Chris, I probably seen the film one too many times now for it really to have a profound affect on me, but the first few times?, boy did that ending reduce me to a blubbering reck, funnily I still get a lump in the ol'throat when they all stand up and say......Aw c'mon, we ALL know whats said.....Right!? NP : Vaughan Williams - Oboe concerto
posted 08-13-2000 05:33 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	"I am Spartacus!"
posted 08-14-2000 02:29 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	"No, I'm Spartacus."
posted 08-14-2000 04:53 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	Joan, also of note are the Overture and Intermission music from the roadshow version and shown on AMC in past. The old LP has a short main title also compared to film. Neither of those cues are on the old lousy LP and MCA CD of it. Practically worthless when you consider all the best music they left off except for the love theme. Best, John.
posted 08-14-2000 04:55 PM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Standard Userer	Swash, John... I AM SPARTACUS! There.
posted 08-15-2000 10:15 PM PT (US)

John Maher Standard Userer	All this "Spartacus" talk makes me want to watch it. I don't remember liking it. In fact, I can't think of a Kubrick film that I've ever liked. Mmmmm.
posted 08-16-2000 05:09 AM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	In a way just by fighting them we won something.
posted 08-16-2000 05:19 AM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	John, there are very few of his I have liked either over the years. This is one exception though. There are many great scenes in the film including Charles McGraw, the great character actor, getting drowned in the soup by Douglas and several great scenes with Olivier as Crassus. The score really helped this film a lot though. One of the greatest scores of all time. Tons of great music in it. Best, John.
posted 08-16-2000 06:01 PM PT (US)

Scorro Standard Userer	I rented the director's cut 2 weeks ago in order to gain a fresh perspective on Spartacus, specifically because much comparative analysis with Gladiator had taken place. There were aspects of the movie which were quite impressive (general cinematography, the sets, the incredible amount of extras, etc.), although it did feel very dated and symptomatic of that period's screenplay and acting. It's reminiscent of a De Mille production, movies which I found grand and epic as a child, but lacked vital reality on subsequent viewing. I'll refrain from a point by point analysis of where I felt Spartacus to be lacking for a modern viewer. It's a great movie... for its time. Even so, it's way longer than was ever necessary for the storyline. _Sc
posted 08-17-2000 11:58 AM PT (US)

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