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      Bladerunner "Secret"

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    Topic:   Bladerunner "Secret"

     MWRuger
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    Read this yesterday and I am completely non-pulsed by this news. I always liked the idea that Deckard was human but had been so desensitized by the things that he had done that he was less human than the replicants he was retiring. Oh Well...

    July 10, 2000

    Scott Reveals Blade Runner Secret

    Director Ridley Scott has finally settled one of moviedom's most hotly
    debated ambiguities: Is Harrison Ford's robot-hunting cop in Blade Runner
    one of the genetically engineered replicants he's supposed to be rounding
    up?

    Spoiler alert: If you want to keep the issue unsettled, we suggest you stop
    reading right now.

    Still with us? OK. In a new documentary that aired on British TV, Scott says
    that yes, Ford's character, Rick Deckard, is a replicant.

    Like his love interest, Rachel (Sean Young), Deckard doesn't know he's
    man-made, with synthetic memories and a limited life span.

    Speculation about Deckard's true nature didn't really come to the fore until
    Scott revealed a director's cut, which featured extra scenes. But even the
    original 1982 film had some clues — besides his superhuman ability to hang
    on to a ledge with two fingers after being attacked by wild-eyed replicant
    Roy (Rutger Hauer), Deckard's eyes also glitter in the dark (as do
    Rachel's).

    "I still think it is one of the best films I ever made," said the British
    director, who gave us Gladiator this summer and who is currently helming
    Hannibal.

    The hugely influential sci-fi-noir film was panned upon its release, but
    eventually gave birth to a diehard cult.

    Scott says that Blade Runner was "kind of a dark novel," which may account
    for its longevity. "You revisit it constantly like re-reading one of your
    favorite books. You always find you get sucked in again," he told the
    Channel 4 documentary.


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    posted 07-11-2000 07:51 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    I always thought it was rather obvious, myself.

    I also thought that the guy who interrogates Brion James at the beginning was a replicant as well. In fact, discussing the question of Ford's replicancy, my father pointed out how much the other actor (David Dukes, I think) looked like Harrison Ford. I just shrugged and said "Maybe they're the same model."

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    posted 07-11-2000 10:33 AM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    Yeah, but I still liked it the other way!

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    posted 07-11-2000 12:20 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    In a way, it is more touching to think of Deckard as a human -- and perhaps gives the picture's final scenes that much more resonance. "It's too bad she won't live ... but then, who does?" As a human, Deckard would know they don't have much time together, giving his decision to stay with Rachael -- whom he knows has little time -- that much more bold. (Which I originally thought might have been the meaning of his snatching up the origami unicorn in the final shot.) (I'm referring to the director's cut, of course, but looking back at the original narrated version, they're not THAT much different, although Ford's sulky I-don't-wanna-be-here line readings are as big a drag on the picture as is all the rain.)

    I wonder if you can argue that the other replicants KNOW Deckard is one of them ... and that he doesn't know it himself. Hence Zhora's patronizing reaction to him, and Leon's going immediately for his "glittering" eyes.

    Then again, following that idea, Leon would immediately have known that Holden (the investigator at the beginning) was a replicant as well ... but then, who knows how many replicants are moving about in this society? Or how they're programmed, or what they're for.

    I was especially struck by how Rutger Hauer, Brion James and to a lesser degree (she is the lesser actor) Daryl Hannah played their characters as lost, lonely children -- remember especially Hauer's shy-little-boy scene when he's telling Hannah that Leon is gone, and James' grouchy scene with Holden (you're the principal, I gotta do what you tell me.)

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    posted 07-11-2000 12:58 PM PT (US)     

     Observer
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    quote:
    Originally posted by H Rocco:
    I always thought it was rather obvious, myself.

    I also thought that the guy who interrogates Brion James at the beginning was a replicant as well. In fact, discussing the question of Ford's replicancy, my father pointed out how much the other actor (David Dukes, I think) looked like Harrison Ford. I just shrugged and said "Maybe they're the same model."


    One wonders now if Deckard is a specially designed replicant to eliminate other replicants...


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    posted 07-11-2000 01:06 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    That was my EXACT thought: Deckard and Holden looked so much alike because they came from the same mold, and were both designed expressly to spot and hunt other replicants.

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    posted 07-11-2000 01:30 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    Knowing that, a sequel sure would be interesting, hu?

    NP: Eraser - "The Eraser" ***/*****

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    posted 07-11-2000 01:41 PM PT (US)     

     AaronR1074
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    Observer,
    It was clearly stated in the film several times that Replicants had many designs for many purposes. The fact that Deckerd and all the rest were the latest model didn't change that...Zora was an assasain, Pris was a pleasure model...etc etc. I find it very intruiging that they develop a replicant that walks, talks, and acts so much like them that he himself has a better understanding for who they are. Hence, he's their perfect weapon against them. Plus, remember Deckerd himself stated that, "Replicants are like any other machine. A benifit or a hazard. If they are a benifit its not my problem..." The director's cut deletes the narations exactly for that purpose. You aren't supposed to know what the main character is really thinking throughout the entire movie. The backstory behind him was intended to be a complete mystery until the very end.

    The unicorn dream sequence clears up alot of this as well. Here, we see Deckerd have a quick dream depicting a unicorn running through the forest. Although the direct symbolism of this animal is still a mystery to me, the reason for the scene is still very apparent. In the very last scene, Deckerd steps over an origami unicorn, which suggests that the cop (who leaves all these origami messages wherever he goes), knew about the memory of the Unicorn because it was implanted. Hence, we are given clues to the fact that Deckerd is a replicant. Ridley Scott shouldn't have had to "reveal" this secret. It was already told through one simple dream.

    [This message has been edited by AaronR1074 (edited 11 July 2000).]

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    posted 07-11-2000 03:06 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    Observations about why Deckard should have been Human:

    It just seems more moving and more ironic if he had been human. He was so soulless compared to the replicants, so less alive. They wanted life so much, he had it but it was wasted on him. Thus bringing the point home that is how you spend your time, not how much you have.

    Why would they ever let Deckard retire, even temporarily?

    Also, if he was designed to catch and retire replicants, why was Leon able to hold him like that?

    If I was designing a replicant killer, I would make sure that it had at least as good a strength as the replicants it was designed to hunt. I might give him enhanced vision and hearing as well. I would certainly turn up his eye/hand coordination as well as his other motor skills.

    Why would the Japanese bladerunner let him go? If was a replicant, they certainly wouldn't let him just wander off. He would be valuable property, not to mention that there would be little way to cover it up.

    It's still a great film, but to me, it just works better if he's human. Of course, I haven’t seen the director’s cut, so I don’t know if these observations are still relevant or not.

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    posted 07-11-2000 07:05 PM PT (US)     

     AaronR1074
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    Because Deckard (sp?!!) was designed to behave exactly like humans...streangths, weaknesses, emotion, etc, etc. He may even have the lifespan of a human. In other words, he's the PERFECT replicant.

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    posted 07-12-2000 09:37 AM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    Aaron, I know that he was designed that way, but why bother?

    I can understand that it might make it a little easier for others to deal with him, but the potential risk of making too human (Weak as a Human)leaves him vulnerable. If you going make him a human, why not use a human in the first place. Its not like they had a shortage.

    Why go to the expense of creating a duplicate when an original would be far cheaper and even more easily replaceable?

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    posted 07-12-2000 10:46 AM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    I love this movie but unfortunately the DVD out in circulation is the Director's cut without Deckard's voice over. This was the first version I ever watched and, personally, I prefer it to the Directors cut..so I refuse to buy the DVD until the original is restored. Does anyone know if this is going to happen? I doubt it! Being a big fan of the old Sam Spade (Humphrey Bogart) movies of the 40's I thought that Deckard's voice-over gave the movie the true film-noir detective feel and added another dimension overall. Also, Hauer's moving monologue at the end loses its impact without Deckards comment "I dont know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last few moments, he loved life more than ever". To me the film has been spoilt and I will only get the DVD in the original format. Does anyone else agree or am I the only one who thinks this? Gae

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    posted 07-12-2000 04:24 PM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Actually, there are a couple of reasons to answer some of the questions brought up...

    First off, this was never a secret. Paul M. Sammon's excellent tome on the subject of Blade Runner, which is called Future Noir, goes into a lot of detail as to the different versions of the film and what how they impact on the story.

    Scott said that while it could be considered ambiguous in the original theatrical versions (there were two), in the so-called director's cut version there can be no doubt whatsoever as to the... er... replicantness of Deckart.

    Now, as to how to explain how this works out within the Blade Runner universe...

    The replicant "models" are just a group of genetic material that is grown into a being. This being will develop according to...


    • The physical limitations or abilities of the batch.
      Zhora and Roy are smarter, for example, than either Pris or Leon.
    • The nature of the memory implants.
      ...or lack thereoff. Leon, for example, was very effected by his lack of a past, and so began collecting photos of himself and the other replicants.
    • The actual experiences the replicants have in the real world.
      This is what nobody can control. The memory implants may clash with the actual experiences. This is how I interpret Deckart's situation to be... when he was still "new," he was the best, doing exactly what he was supposed to do, but not really enjoying it. He eventually got sick of it, and I would assume that the police department figured (rightly) that it wasn't so difficult to keep track of a law-abiding citizen.

    This is my interpretation of how Deckart came to be walking around... the department may well have just figured that they could bring their ace Blade Runner in case of an emergency (which they did; they got good results with Zhora and Pris, but Leon's boldness was misjudged by everyone, and Batty was the ubermensch, nobody really knew what he was capable of). That's why I think Gaff was around, to keep a general eye on Deckart.

    In fact, despite his gruff and condescending manner (The origami man with a large hard-on he makes while Deckart searches Leon's apartment, "You've done a man's job, sir!"), his actions at the end seem to be out of some twisted form of compassion.

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    posted 07-12-2000 04:38 PM PT (US)     

     AaronR1074
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Gae:
    I love this movie but unfortunately the DVD out in circulation is the Director's cut without Deckard's voice over. This was the first version I ever watched and, personally, I prefer it to the Directors cut..so I refuse to buy the DVD until the original is restored.

    Dude, you just don't get it do you. The original theatrical version is a result of Hollywood's distortion of Ridley Scott and the author of "Do Andriod's Dream of Electric Sheep" original story. The narrations were simply put there because Warner Bros thought that the audiance would understand the movie better. The whole idea behind it was to keep Dekard's backstory a mystery until the very end. I always thought that the narrations were cheesy "detective movie" type and distracted me from the rest of the film. For more insight as to why they may have deleted the narrations, read my original response to this thread.


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    posted 07-12-2000 05:12 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    I'm with Gae. I like the narration. As far as being a distortion by Hollywood, the entire film bears little resemblence to Phillip K Dicks book. (Not surprising, as I can't imagine trying to film his stuff)


    I guess it all goes back to what version is the real version of the movie. For me, it will always be the version that I saw in the theater the week that it was released. To me the backstory is not whether he is a replicant, but rather how can a human be so much less human than the things he creates.

    Swash (May I call you Swash?), I still think that they would have made a replicant killer a nexus six and from a batch that was ubermensch like Batty. Besides, I can't imagine that Gaff, no matter how good his nature, would have let two replicants go running off.

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    posted 07-12-2000 05:23 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    I'd like to second Swashbuckler's mention of the book Future Noir. It's an absolutely fasinating book, full of detail and information. I've had to read it a couple times just to pick up things I missed the first and second time through.

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    posted 07-12-2000 05:36 PM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    AaronR1074, I appreciate your thoughts Dude but whatever you say you can not change the fact that the first time I saw "Blade Runner" was the original version (thanks for your agreement MWRuger) and that is the version that to me is "Blade Runner" and always will affect me more. I've personally got no problems with the "cheesy" voice-over, after all some of the greatest film-noirs ever made had voice-overs "Double Indemnity", "The Big Sleep" etc. I dont think the story is so "complex" that the sole objective of the voice-over was to help us so called "feeble-minded" viewers to follow the narrative. Maybe thats what the Hollywood big-wigs thought originally but it doesn't have to be seen as that. To me its following in the grand ole tradition of "Detective" movies and after all thats what Deckard is....a private-eye "Detective". As regards Ridley Scott's original intentions being expressed in "The Director's cut" well he has been known to make mistakes in the past. I mean looked how he's treated Goldsmith's scores such as Alien and Legend ( but thats a whole other debate). Personally, I would'nt be suprised if we see the original cut being distributed in the future even though Scott says it wont happen.
    I'm sure even Ridley Scott ( great as he is artistically) also likes to make extra bucks when he can. After all....if he disliked the original movie so much when it was released theatrically then he could have followed Kubrick's example for "Spartacus" and disowned it. Gae

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    posted 07-12-2000 06:03 PM PT (US)     

     Mark Olivarez
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    Man I've gotta go back and watch this movie again. It's been 15 years since i last watched it. I don't remember too much about it.

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    posted 07-12-2000 07:30 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    It's a great film and worth seeing again. I guess I'll have to see the Director's cut and see if I like it. I have my doubts.

    NP City Lights By Charlie Chaplin

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    posted 07-12-2000 08:21 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    The director's cut -- it's actually at least the SECOND "director's cut," isn't it? I haven't done more than skim the Sammon book -- isn't that much different from the 1982 version. The narration is gone, there are little bits and pieces added (most famously the insertion of the dream unicorn, a presage of LEGEND), the final helicopter shots of Colorado are missing (wisely, I think -- the way it ends now, with Deckard snatching up the origami unicorn and the camera following him to the elevator -- is crisper and more dramatic) -- otherwise, pretty much the same picture, and I found it improved. That's just me, though.

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    posted 07-13-2000 12:09 AM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    The "Director's Cut" project came about when a version of the film, called the "Workprint" (although that's something of a misnomer, it was a preview print) resurfaced. Since it was well known that Scott was unhappy with the way the film ended up being released, he was contacted, and he outlined several of the alterations he would have liked for the film.

    Regarding the voice-over, I don't neccesarily mind the idea of it, but the way it was written and delivered (both Bud Yorkin and Harrison Ford were on their third try this time) makes me like the version of the film without it... with one exception. Roy's death would have been well served with either Yorkin's original take or even the one that ended up in the original theatrical versions.

    However, the voice-over was not done over the protests of Ridley Scott. There was always supposed to be a voice-over in the film, it's just that Scott was so dissatisfied with all of the deliveries that he ended up dropping the idea. It was reinstated by the studio after preview screenings.

    However, one place where studio meddling was clearly done was the ending. Although several ideas existed for the ending, Scott ended up settling for the doors closing. That was in his original notes and the ones he provided for the director's cut. I can't stand all those images of a lush landscape after seeing the wasteland of a city... it makes sense in context of the story.

    As far as the unicorn and Deckart being a replicant...

    Since that was one of Scott's original ideas (and one of the reasons he and Harrison Ford had disagreements) I can only say that it betrays nothing to make it a bit more explicit in this version. If you don't like that idea, then so be it.

    Dramatically, it does make sense (if you look at the Voight- Kampf scene, for example, watch Joe Turkel's performance. Who's being tested in this scene?).

    The Blade Runner squad would, of course, consist of replicants that are programmed to be good at tracking down other replicants. Deckart, despite his deficiencies, was quite successful at figuring out quite a few things about the replicants. That Leon suprised him is one thing (it was a stupid thing to do); that Roy overpowered him was because Roy had a stronger will to live than Deckart, who up until that point, had mostly taken his humanity for granted.

    When Gaff says, "It's too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?" it becomes a different sort of idea... Gaff could, presumably, have seen Deckart's incept date, just as Deckart saw the dates for the four (five, counting the elusive Mary) replicants he was sent to kill.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Forget about ever seeing the original version on video, though. The director's cut edition has not only replaced the theatrical versions as the "official" edition of the movie, that's also the one that has been put in the Library of Congress.

    For myself, while I in general prefer the director's cut version, there are aspects of the other version I enjoy as well. I have both the European theatrical release and director's cut edition on laserdisc (I have not bothered with the DVD because I have heard that the transfer is not consistent). The Criterion Collection laserdisc of the European theatrical release has tons and tons of extras (most of which would be familiar to readers of Future Noir).

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    posted 07-15-2000 12:35 PM PT (US)     

     Lorien
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    Ridley's Cat-Out-Of-Bag announcement isn't really that, as there were such pronouncements when the Director's Cut initially saw release, I think in DETAILS magazine, specifically. It took me three viewings to get the narration out of my head and take the new version on it's own. It's a much simpler movie without the voice-over, most of which was irrelevant data, talking just to have a voice. Initially I found it disappointing that the film itself didn't seem to even actually pose the question, but on further viewings, I noticed the following Deckard Is A Replicant supports:

    1. DECKARD'S EMOTIONS: With the narration eliminated, Deckard is no longer necessarily a cold, hardened, apathetic character (with an ex-wife no less). He's just quiet, possibly introverted, though no less tough for it. Like the other Nexus 6, he is emotionally (probably less than) 3 years old. He looks around a lot when being driven by Gaff, as if the world is still kind of new and foreign to him. Batty and Pris exhibit some unwieldiness with their emotions at Sebastian's place. Deckard also does so with his "romancing" of Rachel. He tosses her against his window, then withdraws his hands, as if he's just messed up. When he shoots Zorah, and you'd think he'd never killed anyone before, the way he hyperventilates (with no cold narration, his reaction plays quite differently). Perhaps it was his first time (though he has false memories of other times).

    2. TYRELL'S GOALS: Tyrell, a chess player, likes to try to get past the restrictions placed upon him. He likes to beat the tests. Rachel is an example, a replicant who doesn't know that she is one, who has memories. She can almost beat a Voight-kompf (sp?). What if Tyrell's actually already one step past her, having gone past Rachel and placed one out in the community with the job of no less than pursuing other replicants. I don't think Tyrell actually designed him for the purpose of terminating replicants, but I think he knew that that job would put his best one in the position to most likely discover his own nature. It's the ultimate test.

    Deckard asks Bryant, essentially, "What if we can't detect them?" and he's given a worried look in response, as if (it seemed to me) Bryant hopes that day hasn't finally arrived, as if knowing that that's inevitable. It would be in character for Tyrell to try to slip into society replicants who are so close to human that they are no different (the point of the film anyway).

    And, of course, being a replicant, Deckard naturally would understand them better, and would be a better tracker.

    3. DECKARD'S PAST: With no narration, he's no longer a down-and-out cop, divorcee, etc. He has no past that we know of, save having worked for Bryant before as a Blade Runner. I think that his memories are Gaff's. Gaff seems to resent him through most of the movie. He *always* knows where to find Deckard, just shows up sometimes. He really is "keeping an eye on him" as has been suggested. He makes the unicorn - whose dream was it originally? When he finds Deckard at the top of the building, he says, for the first time speaking to Deckard in English, "You've done a man's job, sir." Gaff knows what Deckard is. Gaff is a Blade Runner, and has been one. He has probably *actually* "retired" replicants, while Deckard may only remember having done so.

    And whose photos are faker than Deckard's? His piano is littered with pictures that look to date from the 1800's. And I've always thought that the movement of the Rachel photo was a subtle pull-in tactic; Deckard is staring at a phototgraph that he mentally, I don't know, dives into, because photos are so important, or effective to him.

    4. ENVIRONMENTAL CUES: It turns out that one aspect of the novel, which is very different from the film, is subtly present. To go off-world, one has to be physically almost perfect. Who's left on Earth? Gaff with his limp, the lady with a patch on her eye, the overweight, the old, those with rapid aging disease, or very bad eyesight . . . I'm not sure if this applies comprehensively, but as I remember almost everyone in the film has something "wrong" with them - except the Nexus, and Rachel and Deckard (possibly Holden too, hadn't thought of him being one before). They're the Healthy & Beautiful People. Deckard qualifies.

    The eyes that shine, or glow, is a very subtle, but also quite specific indicator. ONLY replicants, or artificial animals, are photographed with this effect. Our first glimmer of it is the owl at Tyrell's, which is specifically pointed out to be artificial. Deckard's eyes exhibit this phenomenon once in the film, in the background of a shot when Rachel is asking if he'd hunt her, and he's telling her, "No, but someone would."

    5. ROY AND DECKARD: I believe that Roy knows about Deckard at the end. I think that he has much of Tyrell in him, note how they dialogue in detail about the genetic possibilities for more life, like a meeting of the same kinds of minds. He beats him in chess, not just smarter, but perhaps knowing his opponent's strategies. It's possible that the replicants were a kind of wish-fulfillment for, say Tyrell and Gaff (so Gaff lets the girl live for Deckard, Tyrell welcomes, if cautiously, Roy) I think that after killing Tyrell, Roy might have poked around a bit, not one to give up. He could have found data on other replicants, Deckard being among them.

    In the chase, he toys with Deckard, punishing him for Zorah and Pris, but otherwise toys with him. How good is Deckard? What can or can't he do? He saves Deckard at the end, no longer because he "loved life, any life, my life" as in the narrated, but now for reasons we have to find in what is present sans narration. Deckard's one of the only people he doesn't kill.


    I think there's more, but that's what I can come up with. It looks to me like a movie where, as it was filmed, Deckard was always intended to have been a replicant. As such, it deals with the question of "What is human" in quite an interesting way, giving us a protagonist who has all the human priviledges, but doesn't know (until the end) that he isn't one, as far as some are concerned. In this version, with more viewings, it becomes harder and harder to see the Nexus as "bad" guys. They're escaping slaves.

    It's a very interesting film in its newer form.

    I'm tired.

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    posted 07-21-2000 02:53 AM PT (US)     

     Lorien
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    . . . but . . . perhaps I've said too much!

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    posted 07-31-2000 01:49 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    Not at all, that was most helpful. Interesting how much of a mythology has had to grow around this picture, just because they didn't release it intact the first time.

    I wonder why Scott hasn't made anything as dense or interesting since, with the possible exception of the underrated (says me) 1492.

    Harlan Ellison remembered meeting Ridley Scott about adapting the Philip K. Dick story that became BLADE RUNNER, and Scott told him "I want to be the John Ford of science fiction." What's he done since? WHITE SQUALL and G.I. JANE are all too typical ... GLADIATOR is decent, but not exactly a return to form. What ever happened to that animated picture he was producing, STARWATCHER, which was to be scored by Vangelis?

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    posted 07-31-2000 02:20 PM PT (US)     
     

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