Lloyd's cloy, almost Shirly Temple-like delivery and expressions are so calculated and plastic as to be embarrassing. His too "gee-whiz" reactions in the Starfighter are downright groan-inducing.

YIKES!

Beat ya' to it, Roc!

producers who abandon a score album in favor of a load of songs, half of which aren't even in the film.

music stores that don't stock score albums on their release date. store clerks who look at you like you're speaking to them in mandrin chinese when you ask them about FILM SCORES.

I agree with every single thing Mr. 2000 said about Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar, and yes, Osment was up for it first (but you know, possibly he wouldn't have been able to do THE SIXTH SENSE as well, so maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Imagine Jake Lloyd in THE SIXTH SENSE! Well, you never know, Shyamalan might have drawn it out of him ... although by the writer/director's own account, he was in desperation to find a kid that he thought was halfway believable, and Osment was nearly the last one he was lucky enough to see. He said that Osment turned up at the first audition in a suit and tie, and THAT made him think "Here's our kid." Heh, imagine Osment having been able to do BOTH THE PHANTOM MENACE and THE SIXTH SENSE, talk about a one-two punch, said the former amateur boxer.)

Dan (UK)

And Speaking of American Graffiti, this brings me to Darth Maul and to an extent Boba Fett. Everyone complains about Darth Maul dying at the end. BIG DEAL! That's the point! Maul is a hot shot and he knows it. He knows that he's cool. He know's that he's the best. But this cocky attitude is his downfall. Lucas is showing that looks and attitude can be deceiving. Maul is just your typical bully. He thought that he was hot sh*t, but in the end he really wasn't that great. Same with Boba Fett. Everyone thought that Fett was super cool. Even Fett thought he was super cool. But in the end he was just a screw up who got knocked into the sarlacc. This same theme was also done in American Graffiti. Rembember Bob Falfa? H. Ford's character. He thought that he was really great, the best in fact. All he did was go around with attitude looking for a fight (or a race). But in the end he turns out to be not that great because he rolls his car and just about kills himself. It's the same theme as Maul and Fett. Bob Falfa...Boba Fett. See any similarities? Watch AG again and you'll also see that John Milner is a neat insight into Han Solo.

Look, I could go on forever about how great Episode I is. I could go on even longer about why the other SW films are so great. But the point that I'm trying to make is that Lucas is no dumby. He is a master story teller. He crafts every line and scene for a reason. He is very subtle though. Very clever.

And I thank mr. Lucas for that.

But with all the fuss about Jar Jar I had to bring up what is an even larger problem with the movie. Anakin. Jar Jar is an incidental character and can afford to be controversial. The central character cannot. This movie would be MUCH better if he were not such a generic kid-type kid. Star Wars is about archetypes and Darth Vader is an ultimate archetype. He's not someone you know or have ever known but he is a fascinating and depthful creation. What is Anakin, the boy who would be Darth Vader, but a lousy child actor who brings nothing to the role except what an off-camera Lucas coaches him to be.

Just check out these lines.

"Let's go left Artoo'
"Spinning, that usually works"
"Now THIS is pod racing"
"WHOOOOOOO-HOOOOOO"

quote:

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Originally posted by HAL 2000:

Just check out these lines.

"Let's go left Artoo'
"Spinning, that usually works"
"Now THIS is pod racing"
"WHOOOOOOO-HOOOOOO"

---

Oh, man... you just make me wish I could see it again!
WHOOOOOOOOOOPEEEEEEE!!!!!

It's not that knowing all the clever insights would make it a better film experience for those who are less than thrilled with it. Lucas may have thought his story arc through with great precision but he lapsed somewhat in the execution.

So don't delude yourself into thinking you have to be smart to understand what this first chapter is doing. It ain't that deep. Babylon 5 is more imaginative and ingeniuosly constucted than this.

You said:
"This movie is so clever that I think that's
why a lot of people didn't like it. It was TOO clever for an audience that is used to
being spoon fed information."

Kyle, if you must insult me in order for TPM to achieve greatness, we have a problem. I simply do not fit into the mold that you created in that second sentence. You will have to re-think that statement as it applies to ME. I watched all three of Lucas' early films in theatres, on their very first day of release. I returned to watch them repeatedly. I believe that I have gained some measure of knowledge and appreciation for the films of George Lucas since 1971.

You said:
"TPM was excecuted with such precision that it took a lot of people off guard because they were expecting the usual in your face crap like "Armageddon"."

Same problem, different sentence.
I had hoped beyond hope that TPM would once again restore greatness to the Star Wars series. Return Of The Jedi was a sorry disappointment in many ways. The Ewok TV movies were made for the "Barney" crowd - Lucas' own children.
After having vacated the director's chair for so many years, I LONGED for TPM to be George's return to greatness! So, once again, I do not fit into your scanario that so neatly defines those of us who were disappointed with TPM.

"Everything in TPM is an introduction to this universe"

Of course it is.
The fact that you feel the need to tell us this demonstrates your intense need to defend TPM against any critics and all criticism. We must, after all, be WRONG. We simply did not UNDERSTAND.

Kyle, you go right on enjoying TPM. I'm truly happy that you love it as you do.

Christopher, do you really think he was going after you personally? I didn't catch it, but then I wasn't the theoretical target.

"This movie is so clever that I think that's
why a lot of people didn't like it. It was TOO clever for an audience that is used to
being spoon fed information."

"TPM was excecuted with such precision that it took a lot of people off guard because they were expecting the usual in your face crap like "Armageddon"."

Rocco, are YOU used to being spoon-fed information? Are you always expecting in-your-face crap like "Armageddon" when you go to the movies?

Of course not.

These statements PUT DOWN everyone who happened to be disappointed with TPM, including YOU & I!

I happen to believe that legitimate film criticism MUST focus upon the cinematic work itself...NOT the reaction of the audience.

I have written my view of TPM in a number of posts on the subject, and at no time did I find it necessary to in any way invalidate anybody's opposing viewpoint.

On the other hand, Kyle chose to trounce the opposition by declaring that they couldn't POSSIBLY have understood the depths of Lucas' work, having been spoon-fed by crap like Armageddon.

I think what people need to realise is the prequels are NOT A New Hope, Empire or Jedi, and they darn well shouldn;t have to be! These are different stories, set in a different time, heck, even MADE in a different time where all the fans and people involved in the movie have grown up, changed a little. Many don't like change, it's natural, but I like Episode 1 for being a bit different.

I could actually talk for ours about this, it's very interesting chat when you get deep into it.

quote:

---

Oh, and according to the Star Wars Insider, we'll get to see Yoda in action fighting with his lightsaber. That should be interesting.

---

Indeed, but I just can not get the image of Yoda doing the classic Miss Piggy "hiyyyya!" out of my mind! I dunno if I want to see the little guy fight, I always liked the idea that he be so mindful of the force he would never HAVE to resort to violence.

Dan (UK)

NP: Elysium MP3, from Gladiator (*****/*****)

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Kinsinger:
I happen to think that Armageddon was a far more successful movie, having connected with the masses on an EMOTIONAL level - something that TPM FAILED to do...[/b]

---

Wow, Chris, old friend... I think you've gone too far with this one. I understand you hated "Episode 1". As a matter of fact, I remember you hated it even before seing it, as you wrote at the old FSM board just after you saw the first teaser trailer.

I can understand you perfectly and even agree with some of your points of view. But now to say that unberable piece of excrement called "Armageddon" is better...
Sorry, it isn't.
"Armageddon" was perfectly made for the brainless MTV generation (something I'm not, thanks God!) and that's why it was so sucessful. I think that's what KyleS was trying to say. Most people hated "Episode 1" because it wasn't a 100% shallow action oriented/patriotic propaganda as "Armageddon" was.

I was disapointed with "Episode 1". Sure. Who wasn't? My expctations were so high that nothing in the world could reach it. But now that all the hype's over, I can just seat back and enjoy this wonderful imaginative and naive movie again without guilt. Afterall... it's just a damm movie!. And quite a nice one.

Thanks to George Lucas. Again!

I'm am deeply ashamed. I never in any way meant to make you feel that I was insulting your intelligence. I feel utterly horrible that you took my post the way that you did. I am truly and sincerely sorry. I beg your forgivness. I've been reading your posts for a few years now and I have nothing but the highest respect for you.

Yes it is true that I love TPM. Why you say? Because it did something that modern cinema has failed to do (for me anyway) for quite sometime now. It dared to be different from what we expected. It dared to actually be crafted and paced instead of rushing from one mind numbing action set piece to the next. It dared to have an interesting story.

Maybe my statements about "spoon fed information" and "in your face crap" were the wrong way to go about my analysis of TPM. Again, I apologize. Those statements were meant to be a quick and clean way to address the problem of the "MTV Generation" A generation that I undoubtedly, being 25, am grouped into. A generation that seems to have a very short attention span and seems to crave non stop stimulation every second. But it's not just this "MTV Generation" that has this problem. I have worked in the entertainment field for a few years now so I know exactly the kind of "focus group marketing BS" that goes into making a product. Nobody cares about making something interesting. They only care about creating something that will sell to the widest possible demographic. Lucas, however, chose to make his movie his way with out being told what to do. This is what I meant by my shallow blanket statements. They were never meant to single you (or Mr. Rocco) out and insult you.

Mr. Lucas made a wonderful movie filled with a ton of social and political issues. One example: Notice during the invasion of Naboo how easy it was for the Droid Forces to take over the city. Look at how peacful the entire thing is. You can see this when the Queen and her party are escorted across the court yard. It's because the Naboo do not have any weapons. Now nobody in the movie came out and actually stated with dialogue, "We can not fight the droids because we have no weapons." But Lucas does this very cleverly by showing us visually and not "spoon feeding" us the reason why the droids take over with out a fight. This is the kind of stuff that I find amazing and that I wish people would look at and question before dismissing the whole movie.

H Rocco,

I'm glad that you were not insulted by my original post. Your choice to see it again with a different mindset is what I was trying to accomplish.

I'm also going to have to agree with his statements regarding ARMAGEDDON.

(Disclaimer: I'm not insulting anyone who liked ARMAGEDDON. I am just stating that I feel that same way about it as Mr. Lux.)

As far as ARMAGEDDON, the real reason I hated it wasn't so much its tone as the slipshod manner of its execution. When it wasn't pushing the cynical or sentimental buttons as hard as it could, it was literally incoherent. From a craftsman's point of view, at least, THE PHANTOM MENACE is certainly competently shot and edited, neither of which I feel ARMAGEDDON is. (Did anybody REALLY understand what was going on when they had to flee the Russian space station? TPM at least has some virtuoso action setpieces.)

A thought about the pacifist planet of Naboo ... interesting that Lucas keeps returning to this theme, the idea of badly outnumbered and outgunned beings taking down vast and elaborate armies. Luke and company infiltrating the Death Star; the Rebel assault on it later. It got so ridiculous as having those oversized Steiff bears conquering Imperial Walkers (well, those small ones, whatever they're called) at the end of JEDI. Virtually the same idea comprises the whole finale of TPM.

Andre, you said:
"As a matter of fact, I remember you hated it even before seeing it, as you wrote at the old FSM board just after you saw the first teaser trailer."

Not so.

What I said all those months ago, was that after seeing the trailer with the little kid (Jake Lloyd) asking his mom, "Will I ever see you again?", and she replies, "What does your heart tell you?", MY heart sank, because I was getting that dreaded feeling that Lucas had made another Ewok-Kiddie flick! I did not pre-judge TPM, in fact I just sat through it a second time in an attempt to LIKE it (?). HOW MANY MORE TIMES MUST I TRY?

I KNEW I was going to take hits for mentioning Armageddon!

The costumes in TPM are exceptional. They were brilliant and breathtakingly stunning when the Chinese, the Japanese and the Mongolians first designed them centuries ago.

So, Kyle, an artist can appreciate the scope of TPM.

As for needing to be spoon fed, honey, chill out.

I saw 'The Sixth Sense' and immediately knew the catch, 'Buckaroo Banzai' and understood the plot, 'Murder On The Orient Express' and knew they all did it, 'Planet of the Apes' yada, yada yada.

You did an excellent critique of the film, but it is very biased. When your personal opinion supercedes, you negate most of the quality comments made.

Next time, put more passion into the texture of your writing and less into pushing your own opinion. You will up the ante on your effectiveness signifigantly.

I'm a professional artist for a living as well. Thanks for asking...

Of course my post was biased. I wasn't critiquing the film at all. I was giving my very biased opinion (yes, opinion) why I believe that TPM is an excellent example of story telling. I wasn't writing a damn review for a magazine. If you still don't like it after what I had to say then so be it.

Why does everyone think that I was attacking them personally? Jeez, if you didn't like the damn movie...fine. I don't care anymore. I'll just go on enjoying the frigging thing by myself. Besides, if your here reading this board then you must like Film Music and/or classical music. Which means that you can't be all spoon fed morons.

And..."honey"? What's that all about?

-Kyle

Jeez, I'm through. Chris, H Rocco...have a good evening. Bye.

"And..."honey"? What's that all about?"

Think it through, Kyle! It's fascinating to me that you can GET all of those subtle plot points in a movie, but when faced with REAL-LIFE...you are somewhat baffled.

"B" is (most probably) a member of the "other" gender...you know, the opposite sex?

I think she may have a crush on you, but I can't be certain. She was in fact, quite kind to you...and she DID call you "honey"...

C'MON KYLE!
CONNECT THE DOTS, MAN!

Your sermon is questioned and you descend into potty language. Not too mature, Kyle.

Now you're insulting me by saying that I didn't understand that "B" is a woman. Do you really think that I'm that ignorant AND homophobic? Come on. I just didn't think that honey was very appropriate. How about I call you "darlin" or "toots"?

"Potty language?" The word 'damn' is potty language? Oh dear.

I can see now that this thread has denigrated from a Star Wars thread (which I found interesting) into a truly personal attack on my own intelligence, maturity and my virility (my wife keeps that safe for me, thanks). How insipid. This really is unbelievable.

Chris, I'm sorry you were offended by my post but continuing your insults on me is just ludicrous. I've never seen such personal attacks from you in all the years I have read your stuff. Sad. I'm sorry that I was the one that provoked them.

My apologies to HAL 2000 for the way his wonderful thread turned out.