PLANET OF THE APES may or may not be good music in your opinion.

It would be very difficult to assert that the music is not perfectly suited for the film.

And for your melodic taste...there IS a *tonal* theme. (There are plenty of atmospheric themes, based not necessarily on melody but on a certain--musical folks help me out--pitch (?) I think.)

But seriously, this whole "Is it good/bad?" question needs to evolve, on both sides--the melody fans and the avant garde advocates need to readjust their criticisms.

It needs to reflect the nature of film music's existence...to be music in film. Music in film needs to be accessible for the viewer...to an extent.

Would PLANET OF THE APES be better if it sounded like GONE WITH THE WIND? Absolutely not!

Jerry Goldsmith, I am certain, had no intention of PLANET OF THE APES being judged for its musical value alone. (I love it, sure.) If he did, I would be disappointed.

But for those who dislike the music...remember that the music gains significance from its worth in the film.

Film scores deserve to be judged first and foremost in the film.

I'll go so far as to suggest that film music has no business being accepted or rejected on the basis of musical value alone. Film music is not written for musical value *alone* (or at least it should not be).

It needs to succeed within the framework of the film, and as the film necessitates it to, first.

That is a question that I don't think about because the emotion that is unleashed in these weird atonal snatches has a power no different from music in, shall we say, its more-conventional sense. When I think of Apes I think of the beach at the very end and hear in my mind's ear the percussive sound of primeval drums and the ricochet of a "bedspring", followed by this incredible silence broken only by waves washing ashore as the camera pulls back and reveals the object of Taylor's anguish. Goldsmith also wrote a marvelous driving and bluesy score for Twilight Zone's "The Big Tall Wish" but it is a rising 8-tone blare of a warning signal he injected that remains indelible beyond the rest.

RAY SAYS: "Goldsmith scored the film for an extremely unusual orchestral ensemble including tuned mixing bowls, a bass slide-whistle, and the cuika, a Brazilian instrument that sounds amazingly like the vocalizing of an excited ape." (Played by the renowned cuika virtuoso, Andre Lux.)

I hate to say it, but this is just a score (POTA) that I have never been able to get into even after repeated listenings.

I like it fine on the screen while viewing the film (which is where you would hope that it would work), but away from it it leaves me cold.

Everybody keeps saying it is incredible, but I just don't hear it. I kinda have the same problem with Dragonslayer.

"Dragonslayer" and "Planet Of The Apes" both represent the kind of music that might accompany a descent into the pit of hell.

Not an easy, or a pleasant listening experience.

But...a truly brilliant facsimile of the Unknown, composed by two of the most complex artists ever to grace the cinema with their talents.

The fact that many listeners don't appreciate it is irrelevant. It's not pleasant music. It wasn't meant to be.

I like your cast for Gilligan's Island. Perhaps it should be a movie instead of a TV show. The only cast person I'd change is for Mary Ann. I'd make her Hollywood's ultimate sweetie, Meg Ryan.

"They fit their dark movies perfectly, but I can't play them separated from the movie."

I especially relate to comments such as these. As an 'orthodox' film music appreciator I've always felt the scene-with-music's the thing, a good album's merely a plus. Guess I admire most those composers who inhabit the best of both worlds, however.

Actually, there are now 20 master plots. There used to be 24, but four relied too much on the interaction among "The gods" to make it as modern stories (although last year's "The Muse" came awfully close).

You're right, we do have a lot of retellings of the same story. Look at how often the "savior" story has been told: Messiah, Christ and Arthur; "The Omega Man," The whole Star Wars saga and "The Matrix." That's not a comprehensive list, but representative of the "savior" plot line.

I think "Magnificent Seven" was an effective retelling of the plot of how misfits acheive redemption, not just a retelling of "Seven Samurai."

And I'm not saying that Tim Burton won't find a unique way to tell the two stories contained in the "Apes" saga -- I KNOW he will. I'm lamenting that there are other stories out there that haven't been told and will never be told because the people with money don't want to take a risk on something that won't make them more money.

This happens not only in movies, but also in book publishing. While I love Star Trek and Star Wars, I'm appalled at all the knock-offs related to these two sagas that take up so much space at the book stores. I'm truly amazed that a new genre like "alternate history" has been able to establish a beachhead in the business because publishing houses seem so intent on just printing the same old stuff. Sometimes I wander like a man in the desert trying to find plots that I like in the standard fiction sections.

To get this back ON TOPIC (i.e., movie music), I'll bet we're missing a lot of good music from composers no one wants to take a chance on. Which is why we had a little thread not too long ago about the future of film music.

I wish Burton luck, he'll find a way to retell "Planet of the Apes" that won't be imitative. But I'm a little disappointed because the director of "Nightmare Before Christmas," "Edward Scissorhands" and "James and the Giant Peach" has moved away from taking risks with new stories to retelling old ones, like "Sleepy Hollow." It seems he has acquired the Hollywood Fever that kills innovation.