And let's not forget Anakin's "Oh, wow. Jeepers! I accidently fired the cannon and accidently blew up the ship and accidenlty saved the planet!" climax. Anakin should've been a much smarter character and should've DECIDED, "Hey. I'll take this thing into space and help out. Hey. There's the ship. Come on. Now I'll fly inside and find the main reactor. Haha! There it is. Now I'll just blast the crap out of it with my laser canon and--haha!! It's destroyed. I've saved the planet!! I've saved the planet!!"

The only thing I liked about this movie (other than about 20 minutes of Williams' score), were the Tusken Raiders taking shots at the Pod Racers. That was THE best part of the whole movie.

It's said that Lucas delayed the deadline of the Episode 2 script because he's trying to make the characterizations more interesting, after all the complaints he got about the first one. Let's hope that's true.

But I will say this. As much as I hate the film and think it's a total one of the worst films ever made, I did not once pick up any racial stereotypes, as so many people complained. Come on, people. This is a different galaxy with hundreds of planets populated by hundreds of alien species with hundreds of different languages and appearances. If you're too busy looking for racial offenses in a movie about alien characters, you've got bigger problems to worry about.

And why didn't Qui-Jon disappear after he died? Obi-Wan did. Yoda did. And though they never showed him again after saying his final words to Luke in the Death Star, Anakin could've disappeared also, but had his Vader helmet on, and so we just couldn't see.

Now it's time to go watch The Empire Strikes Back, still THE best SW movie. Ever. Always has been, always will be.

Mr. Ware, for once either you have blinders on, or don't REALLY care that much about, at least, the first two STAR WARS pictures. It seems obvious to me that, largely because the technology was so far behind what Lucas wanted for A NEW HOPE -- really, he should have been an animator, except the field was moribund at the time -- he was FORCED to invent situations and bits of business for his actors; as well, since he hadn't yet become ****GEORGE LUCAS****, he didn't have the arrogance to believe he shouldn't. YES, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is not only a better movie, and obviously a much more expensively appointed one, it is a better DIRECTED movie -- but then, A NEW HOPE *IS* well-directed, amazingly so considering how washed-out nearly everything in THE PHANTOM MENACE is. What HAPPENED to him? (The pod race is really not even Lucas's work, just his conception. How much you wanna bet adding the Sandpeople wasn't even his idea?)

But that's not what's up. Star Wars 77 was nothing compared to Planet of the Apes or The Wind and the Lion or Papillon, my favorite childhood flics. So much for sentimental value. Now it's just really stupid, more of the usual melodrama formulaic cliches, a nice square little harmless bit of pavlov drool about nothing (oh yeah it's about The Hidden Fortress only in space, that's the main character). It's the casualness of the direction that's so charming. Exactly what I like about Phantom Menace. Sweet where star wars is supposed to be sweet, dumb where it's inevitably going to be dumb. The new Volkswagon beetle.

But we're all supposed to like the same things, so I'll dutifully borrow some of them blinders and type Phantom Menace blows dead monkey brains so I can move on to more interesting topics...

quote:

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Originally posted by debi:
What I demand of any movie, no matter WHAT the genre, is a good story--which consists of protagonist, antagonist & compelling goal, clearly defined.[/QUITE]

A good story is important, but there are - rare - cases when it's sufficient if the story is not bad.

I don't agree with the need for protagonist, antagonist & compelling goal. E.g., "Peter's Friends" comes to my mind, a nice movie without a special single protagonist, no real antagonist, and no actual goal.

[QUOTE]Darth Maul, blink & you missed him. Palpatine didn't physically participate. So, no real hero, no real villain, and the goal was lemme see now, end the trade war. Oh golly, that's exciting.

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That's what I tried to say above. The real villain (and more of a main character than Anakin, in fact) is Palpatine. I really think that the whole Darth Maul plot was only introduced so as to have something for the audiences who are not familiar enough with "Star Wars" to notice the deeper connections.

The story of "Phantom Menace" is about Palpatine's beginning rise of power, cleverly forced by the Naboo blockade and the subsequent vote of no-confidence.

And the movie is not based on a story. It's one of those rare movies which I think can do without too much of a story. It prepares the set for the "Star Wars" saga. It gives lots of hints for things to come which 95 per cent of the audience probably completely missed. And that's why there's Darth Maul. I found it compelling that so much of the real story was hidden between the Darth Maul plot.

There are things which I found annoying, of course. They could have done without that fart joke, and the first 30 minutes of the film are a pure collection of special effects and could have been left out. But as a whole, I still liked it very much.

NP: The Cider House Rules (Rachel Portman, beautiful!)

Oh... han-han...

you guys still debating about "Episode 1" with endless bablings about why "Empire" was better?

Oh, great. The world is really needing it...
Keep it coming.
While you guys talk I'll eat some sausages...

I'M SO WORRIED ABOUT...

I don't think THE PHANTOM MENACE is a "sacrilege" -- I actually think the whole cycle has become some sort of bizarre cult to begin with, at least rivaling the STAR TREK cult (and the STAR WARS nuts have had a lot less to feed off, not least because the whole thing started more than ten years later). And I think THE PHANTOM MENACE is certainly a more entertaining and interesting movie than the wretched RETURN OF THE JEDI.

I guess I didn't make my central point clear enough (though I doubt it'll mean much to ya, Mr. Ware): when I referred to "blinders," it just seemed to me that you didn't pick up HOW BADLY DENATURED George Lucas has become as a filmmaker in the 20-plus years between #4 and #1 (the fact of that very numeration irritates me, not because I worship the "canon" as such, but because it seems maddeningly self-regarding.)

I never saw the full WIND & THE LION -- tried to watch it on TV, but hated the pan-and-scan (even at age 12!) and the sound seemed wretched (I taped some of it anyway. Jerry! Jerry! A few years later, Goldsmith played an excerpt of a mono TV print with a concert audience -- he wasn't conducting, he was lecturing -- and nearly retched. "Terrible sound!" he said. I concurred even before I read his opinion.)

I've written elsewhere that PAPILLON is probably my favorite film of all time.

So, okay -- these are vastly different EXPERIENCES than something like the STAR WARS or STAR TREK phenomenae. And there are good ways of doing this (EMPIRE), bad ways (JEDI) and damned cynical ways (MENACE).

You kind of answered my basic, largely unspoken question: You don't care too much about this cycle, do you? I think you don't, and I now think I really don't. One accidental masterpiece by Mr. Lucas, A NEW HOPE; one genuine masterpiece by Mr. Kershner, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; and the two after that.

At least I think we'd agree that Mr. Lucas doesn't have the best instincts, certainly not now, if ever he did.

Looking forward to your ever-terse reply, mlw you old bud you. Will ya make Detroit? (And whatcha think of EXCALIBUR? I always call that my favorite film *besides* PAPILLON. You told your Zerbe story ... ever get to meet Schaffner himself? I never did.)

"Michael yells at me and calls me "bud" in the same paragraph ..."

That's because you use the term "bud" affectionately, and Mr. Ware has yet to reveal any personal affections.
He HURLS "bud" like an open hand across your cheek.
I don't believe he means to truly hurt you.
But he uses a rather sharp edge to get your attention when he feels that he's been wrongly appraised.

Oh and by the way, probably the reason Maul did not talk to Kenobi and Qui-Jonn is because he was trying to kill him were Vader was trying to seduce Luke to the darkside and plus the fact he was his father. He also had some issues with Kenobi in A New Hope. I mean wouldn't you talk trash with your master if he disfigured you? Plus Maul's facial expressions said enough for me.
NP: THE PHANTOM MENACE *****/*****

[This message has been edited by Mark Olivarez (edited 08 April 2000).]

However, in one draft Maul says something DARN scary, I just can't remember what the lines is right now. heh...

Dan (UK)

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:
I only wish Maul could be around for another film. It would have been cool for Kenobi and Maul's fight end in a draw and maybe in Episode 2 Anakin would duel and defeat him.

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Dan (UK)

But that Gorgeous Lucas person probably tried to save a few bucks by dispensing the guy who had to dub Maul's voice... What a shame!

I would love to hear him saying things such...

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:

I only wish Maul could be around for another film. It would have been cool for Kenobi and Maul's fight end in a draw and maybe in Episode 2 Anakin would duel and defeat him. That would give Palpatine more of a reason to draw Anakin to the darkside as his pupil. After all Luke took down Vader with little training. I'm sorry, but I think Maul was a bad ass and so did a majority of the audiences when I saw the film. Most of my friends, my sister and my kids thought the same way as well.

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Well, seeing as the next film takes place at least 5 years after the events of the first film, maybe they wanted to have an more open-ended ending. I expect the ending to Episode II, to be more like TESB, where as Episode III starts were the last left off.

BTW, who says Darth Maul can't come back? it would not be the first time an thought to be dead character was revived. Just take an look at the Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II video game. One of the dark jedi's gets cut in half, and has some sort of mechanical hover device added.

You never know, Lucas could do the same. However I expect, that Maul was not the only Sith Lord, and there will be another villain to do Palpatine's work.

BTW, it is well know from the original trilogy and the different comics and novels that Palpatine is the Emperor. However, I can't help but think Lucas will have some alterations to the story.

Such as maybe Darth Sedious and Senator Palpatine, not actually being the same person. Who knows maybe Sedious is the Evil twin brother of Palpatine or an clone. Since the clone wars is about this time in the Star Wars continuity. Yes cliché, but would be interesting nevertheless. Or even the fight between Anakin and Obi-wan Kenobi, being different than what has been mention in the past. There are many alterations that could be used IMO, without hurting the saga one bit.

Personally I looking forward to seeing more of the characters from the original trilogy, as well as the familiar starships like Y-Wings, X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

Regards,
Sean Robert Abbey

I still feel the same way, two viewings later. Outside of some very impressive choreography with the light sabre, this "character" is a zero. No "menace" at all.

quote:

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Originally posted by sabbey:
BTW, who says Darth Maul can't come back? it would not be the first time an thought to be dead character was revived. Just take an look at the Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II video game. One of the dark jedi's gets cut in half, and has some sort of mechanical hover device added.

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Right or not, the IMDb states that the shot of Darth Maul falling down initially didn't have him cut into two halves. They altered this so it's clear that he's really dead and won't return.

quote:

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Such as maybe Darth Sedious and Senator Palpatine, not actually being the same person. Who knows maybe Sedious is the Evil twin brother of Palpatine or an clone. Since the clone wars is about this time in the Star Wars continuity. Yes cliché, but would be interesting nevertheless. Or even the fight between Anakin and Obi-wan Kenobi, being different than what has been mention in the past. There are many alterations that could be used IMO, without hurting the saga one bit.

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As I said, it seems obvious - at least to me - that the whole Naboo blockade was deliberately set up by Palpatine in order to cast this vote of no-confidence, so he had the chance to be elected for the new senator.

Sidious kills Palpatine and takes his place in the Senate and later becomes the Emperor....

THE PHANTOM MENACE has some great moments. I really loved the Pod Race, especially the Tusken Raiders and Jawas. and the Lightsaber Duel. So what if Maul is such a one dimensional character! He made a great duelist and I still sit on the edge of my seat when I watch the duel.

Stop the griping though. STAR WARS has ALWAYS been aimed at kids. Most people I know, where kids when the original trilogy came out, and are taking it at that value that SW is still a kids series.