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      The Dark Knight Score ineligible for Oscar

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    Topic:   The Dark Knight Score ineligible for Oscar

     HadrianD
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    Academy disqualifies 'Dark' score
    By JON BURLINGAME
    quote:

    The score for "The Dark Knight" has been disqualified by the executive committee of the Academy music branch.

    Formal letters to that effect are expected to go out this week to composers Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard, who collaborated on the music.

    Their previous collaboration, on "Batman Begins," was similarly disqualified in 2005.

    Sources inside the committee said that the big issue was the fact that five names were listed as composers on the music cue sheet, the official studio document that specifies every piece of music (along with its duration and copyright owner) in the film.

    Zimmer said, in an interview with Variety prior to this week's Acad action, that listing multiple names on the cue sheet was a way of financially rewarding parts of the music team who helped make the overall work successful. (Performing-rights societies like ASCAP and BMI use the cue sheet to distribute royalties to composers.)

    Zimmer, Howard and the other three individuals -- music editor Alex Gibson, ambient music designer Mel Wesson and composer Lorne Balfe -- reportedly signed an affidavit stating that the score was primarily the work of Zimmer and Howard.

    That apparently wasn't enough for the majority of the committee, which was also supplied with documentation indicating that more than 60%, but less than 70%, of the score was credited to Zimmer and Howard.

    The "Dark Knight" score -- and the whole issue of multiple-composer collaboration, which is on the rise in Hollywood these days -- has occupied about four hours of discussion over the past two executive committee meetings.

    Some members sided with Zimmer and Howard; citing the originality and cutting-edge nature of the music, they urged others to keep the "Dark Knight" score eligible despite the cue-sheet issue.

    Both Zimmer and Howard declined comment on the ruling. Both are seven-time nominees; Zimmer won for "The Lion King."



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    posted 11-13-2008 12:50 AM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    I still don't see the issue with multiple composers in general and don't understand why this should be disqualified. Especially when people said it was Zimmer and Howard's score.

    Aside from that, I can't see The Dark Knight winning best score anyway (unless it doesn't win anything else). Did the Brokeback Mountain/Babel guy "write" anything this year? Or pluck any guitar strings? Cuz I'd say he has a pretty good shot then...

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    posted 11-13-2008 12:15 PM PT (US)     

     Justin
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    I can understand why it wouldn't be considered. I loved the score, but it's also somewhat unfair to have 5 composers win against a composer who did a score solely by him or herself...if that makes sense

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    posted 11-13-2008 01:48 PM PT (US)     

     BackToTheFutureFan
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    I can see where the academy is coming from. You can't have a team of composers against one composer. But since it is happening more and more (MV and RCP), it sounds like we might need another category at the Oscars. The score for the Dark Night was very uninteresting IMO, I don't know what they are crying about, lol.

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    posted 11-13-2008 02:22 PM PT (US)     

     Al
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    Can't they just cut the Oscar into pieces? Zimmer gets the head. Howard gets the torso. And the rest of 'em can fight over the limbs.

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    posted 11-13-2008 03:03 PM PT (US)     

     BackToTheFutureFan
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    HAHAHAHA

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    posted 11-13-2008 04:57 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by BackToTheFutureFan:
    I can see where the academy is coming from. You can't have a team of composers against one composer. But since it is happening more and more (MV and RCP), it sounds like we might need another category at the Oscars. The score for the Dark Night was very uninteresting IMO, I don't know what they are crying about, lol.

    MV and RCP? Isn't Remote Control what Media Ventures used to be? And as for the team of composers idea. Don't you guys think most movies have more than one person working on a score? Do you think a composer comes up with all the different sound design stuff in their scores? I am guessing that work goes to other people...

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    posted 11-13-2008 05:00 PM PT (US)     

     Aman from Middle-Earth
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    wow...

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    posted 11-13-2008 10:49 PM PT (US)     

     BackToTheFutureFan
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    I'm thinkin Jerry Goldsmith didn't have a team of writers behind him when he wrote the music for Total Recall and Star Trek...

    It's not like I am AGAINST either style of composing. All I said was that I could see where the academy was coming from.

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    posted 11-14-2008 03:21 AM PT (US)     

     Widescreen
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    The academy has always played by it's own rules. Perhaps this will lead to a re-examination of the qualifying rules and allow something like this situation to pass. it sucks for The Dark Knight, but some things to consider:
    - Hans Zimmer has won an Oscar and has said in the press that he's no longer concerned with the Oscar races
    - Danny Elfman's score for Batman won a Grammy and BMI awards, but it wasn't even nominated for an Oscar. I looked up the nominees, and to be honest, the only other score worthy of a nomination on the list was Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.
    - This isn't the first time the academy has dismissed a film in some way for it being constructed differently. TRON was disqualified for a Special Effects Oscar nomination because using computers for visual effects was considered "cheating". It is clear that it could have easily competed with Blade Runner, E.T., or any other film using effects that year. TRON was the big contributor to computer aided visual effect design; it goes without saying it has a pioneer status (at least with me), and was robbed of it's rightful place in film history.

    Bottom line; how it was done does matter, but how it is regarded should be revised. If you can't over equalize it; recognize it for what it does.

    [Message edited by Widescreen on 11-14-2008]

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    posted 11-14-2008 07:47 AM PT (US)     

     Justin
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    Very awesome response Widescreen. Those are facts I had no idea about.

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    posted 11-14-2008 09:31 AM PT (US)     

     sean
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    quote:
    Originally posted by BackToTheFutureFan:
    I'm thinkin Jerry Goldsmith didn't have a team of writers behind him when he wrote the music for Total Recall and Star Trek...

    You're wrong there. Apparently, Goldsmith had other people working on Star Trek: The Motion Picture most definitely. That doesn't take away from the work one bit, but just don't put composers up on a pedestal for any reason.

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    posted 11-14-2008 12:29 PM PT (US)     

     Widescreen
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Justin:
    Very awesome response Widescreen. Those are facts I had no idea about.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You're most kind, Justin; I'm good for useless trivia sometimes.

    Even if the Academy doesn't recognize this material, there are, at least, the fans (us).

    And another good point in Zimmer's favor is that he has pushed for credit to those composers he has assisting him on the films he can't finish by himself. I don't know if that qualifies as generous in the industry as insiders know it, but that's a key factor in how composers such as John Powell, Nick Glennie-Smith, Ramin Djwadii, Harry Gregson-Williams have come into their own.

    That's something in light of the infamous falling out between Shirley Walker and Danny Elfman over credit on the love theme in Dick Tracy. (Somebody feel free to correct me if that fact is incorrect.)

    [Message edited by Widescreen on 11-14-2008]

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    posted 11-14-2008 01:17 PM PT (US)     

     BackToTheFutureFan
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Widescreen:
    The academy has always played by it's own rules. Perhaps this will lead to a re-examination of the qualifying rules and allow something like this situation to pass. it sucks for The Dark Knight, but some things to consider:
    - Hans Zimmer has won an Oscar and has said in the press that he's no longer concerned with the Oscar races
    - Danny Elfman's score for Batman won a Grammy and BMI awards, but it wasn't even nominated for an Oscar. I looked up the nominees, and to be honest, the only other score worthy of a nomination on the list was Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.
    - This isn't the first time the academy has dismissed a film in some way for it being constructed differently. TRON was disqualified for a Special Effects Oscar nomination because using computers for visual effects was considered "cheating". It is clear that it could have easily competed with Blade Runner, E.T., or any other film using effects that year. TRON was the big contributor to computer aided visual effect design; it goes without saying it has a pioneer status (at least with me), and was robbed of it's rightful place in film history.

    Bottom line; how it was done does matter, but how it is regarded should be revised. If you can't over equalize it; recognize it for what it does.

    [Message edited by Widescreen on 11-14-2008]


    Had no idea. Although the special effects for Tron were very sophisticated for its time, the effects were very poor and unrealistic. Look at James Cameron's The Abyss, it won the Oscar in '89 for visual effects and for good reason. Probably the first film in history using CGI to obtain a realistic look.

    I was just WAITING for Sean to jump on my response! Lol. Ohhhhhh..I WILL put composers on a pedestal if they deserve it. Peace...

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    posted 11-14-2008 01:51 PM PT (US)     

     Widescreen
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    Agreed on The Abyss. It may depend upon the viewpoint with Tron; I can suspend my disbelief pretty easily because reality is unnecessarily depressing.

    [Message edited by Widescreen on 11-14-2008]

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    posted 11-14-2008 02:31 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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    And now I read it's eligible.... I love rules!

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    posted 12-10-2008 10:55 AM PT (US)     

     sean
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    quote:
    Originally posted by PeterK:
    And now I read it's eligible.... I love rules!

    Peter, listen to what Elfman thinks of these arbitrary rules, it's fascinating:
    http://www.stageandscreenonline.com/downloads/danny_elfman.html

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    posted 12-10-2008 11:43 PM PT (US)     
     

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