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      Summer 2008 Wrap-Up (Page 1)

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    This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2
    Author
    Topic:   Summer 2008 Wrap-Up

     Quill
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    So, in about 8-years I've never bothered to post something like this, but some reason I feel compelled this year. Enjoy...or not.
    _______________________

    Summer Round-Up

    Ironman
    Movie: ***
    Score: * ½

    Serving as the kickoff to the summer spectacle season, I was a tad leery about Ironman going into an advanced screening. I walked surprised and very satisfied, even more so because the satisfaction came from the characters, writing and acting than the action. Robert Downey JR owns this film, yet the supporting cast (Paltrow, Bridges & Howard) all deliver solid performances which do not feel overly tacked on. The flow of the film is solid, the character motivations fairly believable (except for the villains descent into strange idea land), and mix of character, comedy and action fuse admirably. While there is action on screen, it is done quite well and the suit effects for Ironman are top-notch. More in this case may have been better, but that would have risked the flow of the movie.

    The score on the other hand is quite disappointing. While the main theme is actually disappointing and befitting the character, the garbage in between is complete throwaway. There is little more to be said, and I hope that they go a different direction for the 2nd pass.


    Indiana Jones & the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
    Movie: ** ½
    Score: * ½

    Now I know my experience with this movie was impacted by ridiculously over-wrought expectations, but still… I will acknowledge that there are elements to the movie which still kindled some warm feelings in my heart. First amongst those is Harrison Ford in the iconic role – great to see him dawn the fedora and for the most part, he’s still got it. There are elements that feel right, but unfortunately, too many that missed the mark. Shia’s character is somewhat of an annoyance, the monkey scene is silly (yet not as atrocious as some would suggest), and I simply cannot get past the where the story leads to. To avoid spoiling it for anyone, I will just say that I was extremely disappointed and felt it was the completely wrong direction and tone for what will be the last Jones film (of relevance at least.) I know what Lucas was going for…it was just a bad idea though.

    More surprisingly than the film, though, is how terrible John Williams’ score is. I have posted these thoughts elsewhere on the board, but I do not want to hear folks making excuses for him and placing the blame on Lucas and Spielberg. He is a professional (and perhaps the best of all time), and this phoned in crap is embarrassing. His new themes are a joke and only some of the action music is even worth listening to. Glad I only paid $9.99 because this one will not be getting many spins. As far as the summer scores go – this was one of the biggest disappointments.

    Incredible Hulk
    Movie: ***
    Score: *** ½

    Hulk had me even more worried than Ironman due to poor previews and less than stellar buzz. However, early reviews gave me hope and sure enough this film delivered in spades. It corrected all that was wrong with the first Hulk movie and delivered a story that paid homage to both the comics and the 70s TV show. The movie delivered the dark, dramatic element that defines Hulk quite well, and it nailed the Betty Ross relationship perfectly. The films balance and flow were excellent, the performances worked, and the action delivered. The effects were solid, though I don’t know if they will ever be able to make a giant green, fighting cucumber look completely realistic on screen. On different levels I enjoyed this film as much if not more than Ironman.

    As for the score, this is one of the largest surprises, not just of the summer, but in general for movie scores for me in quite some time. First off, no, I had no problems with my Amazon 2-disc set, so my opinion of the music has not been degraded because of that. Perhaps it was film’s resonance with me, but I keep coming back to this score repeatedly. It has not left my CD changer in the car since the day I put it in. The action pieces, the theme, the softer portions all work wonders for me. I have been a long-time fan of Armstrong and this score only furthered that opinion. Best of the summer for me.

    Wall-E
    Movie: ***
    Score: **

    Hmmm…this one is tough. Usually loving all things Pixar I went into this film expecting their next patch of genius. Yes, there was quite a bit to enjoy – of course the imagery and any scene involving the title character or Eve. However, what makes Pixar so unique is their ability to make their secondary characters so fleshed out. This film fails in this regard…pretty abysmally. Compared to ANY other Pixar film you should see what I am talking about. As for the message, I usually don’t give extra props for “message” films, but this one is worth listening to. My four year old loved it, which is probably what really matters, but as for adult enjoyment, this one simply cannot rate with Rat, Nemo, etc

    As for the score…sorry, I can barely remember it. This equals normal Thomas Newman churn. I will give it more listens after I have the movie at home, but for now I need to chalk this one up as forgettable. I did enjoy their use of the few songs in the movie, very fitting.

    The Dark Knight
    Movie: ****
    Score: ** ½

    Yes…yes…best movie of the summer. Best comic book movie…kinda…(not even sure if it fits in the category.) Not much more to say, well written, well acted, pretty much nailed everything perfectly (except for the pacing of the first 45-minutes.) While Ledger chews the scenery, it was Eckhardt’s turn as Harvey Dent which does it for me and is truly the heart of this movie. Kudos to Nolan and here’s looking forward to whatever he tackles next.

    The score on the other hand is too monotone and more of the same to really rave about. I do like the evolution of the Batman theme, as well the evolution of the subtle theme from the first film that shows up entitled “Harvey Dent” on the Dark Knight score release. The new music for the Joker is throwaway for me, and the droning siren (sorry, that’s the best way to describe it) leaves a lot to be desired.

    Hellboy 2: The Golden Army
    Movie: ***
    Score: *

    More is better in this case, and I loved Hellboy 2. Del Toro’s vision is as compelling as ever, and other than some pacing problems and a flat finale this is a great film. Perlman is still a joy and while I miss Prof. Broom, the quirky german character (his name escapes me now) is a great addition. The film’s imagery is even better this time around, as clearly Del Toro had more budget to work with (and is reminiscent of Pan’s Labyrinth in some ways.)

    The score…shame on you Danny Elfman and shame on Del Toro for abandoning Beltrami. That being said, this looked as if it should have been a good move on Del Toro’s part, as this material and imagery seems perfect for Elfman. What we get is an aimless, themeless mess which next to Crystal Skull would have be the second largest disappointment of the summer. I’m not sure what happened here, but it is tragic none-the-less.

    Wanted
    Movie: ***
    Score: ***

    I was actually prepared to skip this movie, but I am quite glad that I did not. With a wry sense of humor and excellent imagery, I can best describe this movie as the love child of the Matrix and Office Space. Excellent (if not ridiculously over the top) actions sequences, strangely compelling characters (particularly that of an main character the audience can actually empathize with in this odd world), and solid pacing make for a good time at the movies. Jolie needs to put on some weight, and the Irish guy from Braveheart needs to ease up on the cigarettes, but otherwise the casting and performances work as well. Highly recommended for brainless, action excitement.

    When faced with the prospect of Elfman scoring an action film versus a fantasy-superhero film (Hellboy), I was not expecting much from Wanted and quite a bit from the latter. While I have already addressed my uber-disappointment with Hellboy, it was startling to find out just how good the score to Wanted was. It still retains that Elfman feel, but manages to capture the essence of this story and its different elements quite well. I have never been a fan of the non-fantastical Elfman scores, but this one managed rise above the mediocrity of his drama/action score past. Good job!


    Hancock
    Movie: ** ½
    Score: *

    So, this movie had great potential and honestly, I did not find it as terrible as many of the posts on this board would suggest. Yes, the movie suffers from an anguishing case of personality disorder, taking an abrupt turn from overtly comedic to heavy-handed. There is a good story under the hood, they simply rushed it and the pacing and evolution of the story suffer greatly because of it. Will Smith proves that he has the chops and charisma to overcome mediocre execution of a script and carry a movie, while the supporting case does a fine job, namely Bateman. Charlize Theron has a strange role but she does a decent job considering the material she was given to work with.

    Score? Huh…what score? I generally enjoy Jon Powell, but this score is a complete mess…if there is one to begin with. The only bit I can remember is the completely laughable heroic scene the rears its ugly head during the Bank Robbing scene. Ack. Stay away!

    Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor
    Movie: ** ½
    Score: **

    My score for this film probably benefited from middle of the road expectations. Once again, I found enough to enjoy to walk out marginally satisfied. The returning cast does a fine job, and Maria Bello is merely OK, but those are tough shoes to fill, especially have to feign a British accent. It made several moments of her delivery feel somewhat forced and unnatural. The action and effects are over the top, but that is a trademark of this series. The only true failure of the film is the handling of Alex and his love interest. For starters – the aging issue is just weird and tough to grabble with. But once you get past that, his character is simply not that engaging and the love story centering around him is flaccid (no pun intended.) Still, a fun diversion into Mummy territory.

    Randy Edelmen had a difficult prospect in front of him, following excellent scores by both Goldsmith and Silvestri. I felt the score was serviceable and it was pleasant to hear a full orchestra. Certainly not on par with the previous Mummy scores, but I will picking this one up at some point and giving it my full attention. The man does not get enough work these days, so I want to give this one its fair shake.

    Tropic Thunder
    Movie: ***
    Score/Songs: **

    As with any Stiller comedy (particularly those he pens/directs) there were moments of laughing in pain, with other moments of indecision as I glance around the theatre to see if I missed something. Still, an uproariously funny and indignant movie that pulls no punches. Robert Downey JR follows his turn in Ironman with an awesome performance here. However, the biggest surprise of the film is Tom Cruise. For once not playing himself, he delivers by far the best and funniest performance I have seen from him in over a decade.

    Shapiro score is meant for nothing more than pushing the stereotypes of big budget actions scores and I guess it does its job. There is little to say about it, good or bad, as it is a throwaway element of the movie. The use of the rock songs works well also, echoing the similar use of music in previous war and action films. Not an album that I would invest in…but that is within my expectations.


    OVERALL – A surprisingly solid summer season with all four superhero films hitting their marks and no true film disasters. As for the scores, this will be far from a memorable summer with only a few standouts for me. I will admit that I missed my fair share of movies…amazing how kids will do that to you.

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    posted 10-07-2008 09:41 AM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    Quill, thanks! Excellent post. Love the individual star ratings for movie and score, and then the two paragraphs on each. Best thing I've read here in a while that wasn't a news item... wish I had the time to do some of this myself. Just wanted to say thanks for the write-up, it is appreciated.

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    posted 10-07-2008 10:12 AM PT (US)     

     Quill
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    Feels good to contribute sometimes!

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    posted 10-07-2008 12:36 PM PT (US)     

     John C Winfrey
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    Quill, I agreed with many of these. Very interesting. J.

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    posted 10-07-2008 12:52 PM PT (US)     

     sean
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    Nice read. I heavily disagree in parts, especially about Incredible Hulk and The Dark Knight.

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    posted 10-07-2008 01:12 PM PT (US)     

     Widescreen
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    An OUTSTANDING post. However, I couldn't disagree more with the ratings, but that goes to a difference in tastes. I do agree that Hulk and Wanted were great surprises. Hancock did offer nothing new, but John Powell on his worst day still provides an ejoyable listening experience. That's just me. Where I disagree most, and I'm beginning to think I'm the only who likes these scores, is Iron Man, Indiana Jones IV, and The Dark Knight. My only supposition as to why is that I like post-modernism in scoring as much as I like traditional melodic structure in score. Indiana Jones IV made me wish the pendulum would swing more to discernable melodies in scores. I blame the lack of this in a lot of scores to the post-modern trend. Then again, movie producers don't ask me about such things.

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    posted 10-07-2008 01:36 PM PT (US)     

     Quill
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    Hey Widescreen...I'm with you on getting back to the good old days. Williams' had a chance to reignite the fire for good old fashioned adventure scores...unfortunately, Indy IV was stale. Same ole, same ole in the orchestrating department and new themes that were truly horrid when listened to beside his previous work on the Indy films.

    Too bad.

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    posted 10-07-2008 02:01 PM PT (US)     

     Al
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    Good read. As a film I enjoyed Wall-E the most this summer. Dark Knight and Hellboy 2 were also fantastic. But as far as the scores... well, to be honest... I didn't buy a single one of 'em. But judging from what I heard in the film, I might lean toward The Hulk based on Armstrong's love theme and the old-fashioned monster movie finale, although the space-dance music from Wall-E was certainly outstanding.

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    posted 10-07-2008 02:27 PM PT (US)     

     Widescreen
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    Quill- hate to say it, but I do agree on that point, I just don't think I can judge Indy IV on that merit - but I will say we're about due for a melodic renaissance in scoring. Now it's just a question of when it will come along. I do hope it's soon; the last one I can remember getting fired up about was Sky Captain. But then again, I want a full experience where the movie is good and the score is memorable.

    Then again, not every movie can be Star Wars.

    [Message edited by Widescreen on 10-07-2008]

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    posted 10-07-2008 03:39 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    Keep it up Quill - even if our positions could not be more polarised. It's interesting to see people say why they like some things over others, instead of just doing lists.

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    posted 10-07-2008 04:27 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by franz_conrad:
    Keep it up Quill - even if our positions could not be more polarised. It's interesting to see people say why they like some things over others, instead of just doing lists.

    I agree 100%. Or when you get the person who says "I didn't like this movie, so it sucks, and if you liked it you're an idiot." There are a lot of those people out there... lots...

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    posted 10-07-2008 04:34 PM PT (US)     

     Kris
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    Good post. Without going into to many details, here my ratings (max 5 stars) on some of this year's bigger scores. All in all a quite disappointing year so far.

    Hancock ***1/2 (one of the better ones)
    Indiana Jones 4 **1/2 (been there done that)
    Kung Fu Panda *** (not bad)
    Iron Man ** (I wish Debney got his chance)
    Hellboy II * (where's Beltrami)
    Incredible Hulk *** (original)
    The Dark Knight *1/2 (worked in the movie)
    The Happening ** (boring)
    Wall-E * (Thomas Newman is not my thing)
    Speed Racer *1/2 (just didn't like it)
    Tropic Thunder **1/2 (alright)
    Wanted *** (one of Elfman's better recent efforts)
    Narnia: Prince Caspian **1/2 (same again, but not as good)

    All in all, the good soundtracks were releases of older movies.

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    posted 10-08-2008 10:02 AM PT (US)     

     Quill
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    Holy smokes...I can't believe I forgot about Prince Caspian. Thanks Kris.

    Price Caspian
    Movie: ***
    Score:***

    Disney has admitted to bungling the release for this picture...it screamed for a holiday release and most likely would have equaled or bettered the success of the first film if they had stuck to Thanksgiving or Christmas. I for one enjoyed this movie more than the first. More gripping story, darker theme and somewhat better performances. The quality of the film in all aspects was top-notch, and I hope the box office receipts does not tarnish Adamsons' appeal.

    As for the score, I am conflicted. The score is solid because it builds on the foundations of the first score (which I enjoyed) and adds an rousing new theme which I connected with. There is just not enough other oomph to push this one up to the top of the list. HGW continues to deliver solid work...he just needs a little more heart in there.

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    posted 10-08-2008 10:28 AM PT (US)     

     sean
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    quote:
    Originally posted by scoreguy16:
    Or when you get the person who says "I didn't like this movie, so it sucks, and if you liked it you're an idiot." There are a lot of those people out there... lots...

    I think I know who you're talking about: His name is g...


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    posted 10-08-2008 11:49 AM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by scoreguy16:
    Or when you get the person who says "I didn't like this movie, so it sucks, and if you liked it you're an idiot." There are a lot of those people out there... lots...

    I get the feeling you're alluding to my thread about Mi3 from two years back. Guilty conscience!


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    posted 10-08-2008 05:12 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by franz_conrad:

    I get the feeling you're alluding to my thread about Mi3 from two years back. Guilty conscience!


    lol I wasn't actually trying to point out an specific times. But now that you mention it...

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    posted 10-08-2008 06:53 PM PT (US)     

     nuts_score
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    quote:
    Originally posted by franz_conrad:

    I get the feeling you're alluding to my thread about Mi3 from two years back. Guilty conscience!


    Oh, your damn M:i:3 thread! The horror . . . the horror.


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    posted 10-08-2008 08:44 PM PT (US)     

     MarkA
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    I know I am in the minority, but I hated Wall-E. And I'm a huge Pixar fan. Oh well. I liked the score though.

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    posted 10-08-2008 09:24 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by MarkA:
    I know I am in the minority, but I hated Wall-E. And I'm a huge Pixar fan. Oh well. I liked the score though.

    I loved Wall E, but it didn't quite live up to my expectations. The whole human aspect seemed like it could've been removed almost entirely. But I am not sure if that's what felt off to me or not.

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    posted 10-08-2008 09:37 PM PT (US)     

     MarkA
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    quote:
    Originally posted by scoreguy16:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by MarkA:
    [b]I know I am in the minority, but I hated Wall-E. And I'm a huge Pixar fan. Oh well. I liked the score though.
    <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I loved Wall E, but it didn't quite live up to my expectations. The whole human aspect seemed like it could've been removed almost entirely. But I am not sure if that's what felt off to me or not.[/B]


    It was the BEST movie I had seen in a long time... until the humans entered. Then it totally tanked for me.

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    posted 10-08-2008 10:12 PM PT (US)     

     nuts_score
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    I guess you folks don't take kindly to sci-fi concepts where a robot teaches a human being how to truly live. You lugs most not like Blade Runner either.

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    posted 10-08-2008 11:01 PM PT (US)     

     Quill
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    I actually love those concepts Nuts, but it failed in execution in Wall-E. It was too force-fed, and since there was no compelling secondary human character there was no way to really connect.

    There is still much to like, but it was not as well-rounded when compared to their previous efforts.

    Another note - I despised the fact that they used Fred Willard and any live actors (example: Advertisements for the space cruise). It makes zero sense, particularly when you have animated fatties later. As technically proficient as Pixar is, I just don't get that.

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    posted 10-09-2008 02:24 PM PT (US)     

     Widescreen
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    For what it's worth, I thought the live actor usage was an interesting touch stylistically. To me, it meant that any normal idea of humanity has long left behind for something pasty and fat. I don't think it was force fed so much as it was sobering because its fairly pointed how what is depicted is already happening; look at America's obesity rate these days.

    Even if that counter argument doesn't work, it's still clear to me that the first 20-30 minutes of Wall-E was some of the best filmmaking I've ever seen out of Pixar. However, people have almost completely forgotten the extremely well executed short that ran before it called Presto. It is the single most hilarious animated short I've seen since the heyday of Looney Tunes! Good music, too.

    Speaking of; Thomas Newman's score for Wall-E is the first of his I've puchased and kept because I liked. To me, it hearkens back to Goldsmith's cloud music from Star Trek: TMP in places, some of Elfman's early stuff, and a little bit of Holst's The Planets.

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    posted 10-09-2008 04:05 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    Here's what I think my problem was... I loved what I saw so much in the first half of the movie, that I wanted more of that, and less of the humans. Also, I didn't like the fact that it seemed as if Wall E was the one that kept getting hurt in the movie. There was no chance for Wall E to rescue Eve from harm (until you see the deleted scenes on the Blu-Ray I guess).

    I really did love the movie though, I even had to get all the little "action figures" from the movie. It's just that once the humans came in, I felt it just kind of dropped a little. It almost got a little too tense for me. I think it's because the first half of the movie you get into this warm comfortable state of mind while watching these 2 cute little innocent robots falling in love. Then the 2nd half is just incredibly chaotic and ruins the mood set from the first half (save for the space dance). I understand that it's supposed to change and the humans are important to the story. However, I would've been perfectly fine had they stayed on earth and gone on a different adventure without humans.

    And yes nuts, I do like Blade Runner.

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    posted 10-09-2008 07:55 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by nuts_score:

    Oh, your damn M:i:3 thread! The horror . . . the horror.


    Mi3 was the bloody horror, mate. Such a collusion of hip artists to preserve the persona of a certain actor was truly shameful in all respects. Even John Woo looked more like an auteur next to that gharish insult of a film.

    I must say, re: Wall-E, that I gave the first half 10 out of 10, and the post-human introduction section 7 out of 10. The second half was done reasonably perfectly (except for making a fat mankind's capacity to do an about-face believable), but the human side of it felt like more familiar territory for me. It could have been a story for both adults and children at the start, but the human story was more clearly tailored to the kids.

    (Now have the film strayed into the labs where the robots "make babies" using unsuspecting fat humans, then we might have been onto something... actually, no, that would have been gross, though a nice nod to the opening chapter of BRAVE NEW WORLD.)

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    posted 10-12-2008 03:30 AM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Widescreen:
    However, people have almost completely forgotten the extremely well executed short that ran before it called Presto. It is the single most hilarious animated short I've seen since the heyday of Looney Tunes! Good music, too.

    It was beyond brilliant. Wonderful wonderful wonderful. What a film!

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    posted 10-12-2008 03:32 AM PT (US)     

     Camillu
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    My views:

    The Incredible Hulk
    Thought the movie was better than the previous version, and enjoyable. But nothing to write home about.
    Score - Great Hulk Theme and Love theme, and solid overall, but too long and not too original.

    Indiana Jones 4
    Didn't mind the film while I was in the theatre, but the more I think about it, the more I agree with the latest episode of South Park (1208).
    Score - nothing new I guess.

    Iron Man
    Great film. Very enjoyable.
    Score worked in the film, but not on it's own.

    Prince Caspian
    As god as expected, both for film and score. I guess predictable is good in this case. Wardrobe score has more to offer on repeat listens though.

    Wall-E
    One of the highlights of the year for me. The film and score are both excellent in my book.

    The Dark Knight
    Best film of the summer. Score was the one that got most repeat plays in my car, and I haven't tired of it at all. Works wonderfully in the film, and parts of it work wonderfully on their own too. But even the ear-jarring pieces are noteworthy.

    The Mummy 3
    Forgettable film, forgettbale score. Worst of the 3 scores, but better film than 2.

    Tropic Thunder
    Enjoyed the film, but I was expecting to laugh more. Score sounded great in the film, albeit mostly parody, but haven't heard it on CD yet.

    Hellboy 2
    Enjoyable and well-made film. Score did the job well but at times sounds like a copy-paste job from the great Elfman.

    Wanted
    Loved the visuals in the film - this director has class. Score was good too, especially the sacred-sounding stuff.

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    posted 10-12-2008 10:49 AM PT (US)     

     Quill
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    Presto was great...better than the feature.

    I've said it before and I'll say it agian, Ratatouille is a better film with a better score. By Far.

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    posted 10-13-2008 04:16 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Quill:
    Presto was great...better than the feature.

    I've said it before and I'll say it agian, Ratatouille is a better film with a better score. By Far.


    Not for me, mostly because I never got emotionally involved in Ratatouille. Plus I can't remember a single note from the score. I can with Wall E though!

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    posted 10-13-2008 05:32 PM PT (US)     

     nuts_score
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    I'm a firm believer that Jan Pinkava's solo Ratatouille film would've been Pixar gold; unfortunately we're stuck with the Brad Bird do-over, Ayn Rand-warts and all.

    And maybe Pinkava could've done away with Giacchino and grabbed Yann Tierson; it would've resulted in a less-cliche, but still French, score.

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    posted 10-13-2008 06:44 PM PT (US)     

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    I'm going to go into more depth at the end of the year; but here's my favorites so far . . .

    1. Burn After Reading, Joel and Ethan Coen
    2. Wall-E, Andrew Stanton
    3. The Fall, Tarsem Singh
    4. The Dark Knight, Christopher Nolan
    5. Young@Heart, Stephen Walker
    6. Vicki Christina Barcelona, Woody Allen
    7. Man on Wire, James Marsh
    8. Snow Angels, David Gordon Green
    9. Appaloosa, Ed Harris
    10. Blindness, Fernando Mierelles (this could've been great but is one of the most heavily flawed films I've ever seen)
    11. The Incredible Hulk, Louis Letterier
    12. Pineapple Express, David Gordon Green
    13. Iron Man, Jon Favreau
    14. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Steven Spielberg

    [Message edited by nuts_score on 10-13-2008]

    [Message edited by nuts_score on 10-13-2008]

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    posted 10-13-2008 06:52 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by nuts_score:
    I'm a firm believer that Jan Pinkava's solo Ratatouille film would've been Pixar gold; unfortunately we're stuck with the Brad Bird do-over, Ayn Rand-warts and all.

    Andrew, but don't you look lovely today?! It must these intellectually fashionable complaints you're spouting - they really do enhance the colour of your eyes. Whether it's food for Randy types or not, I believe it's a fine film.

    However I must confess a bit of curiosity for this talk of an earlier director. Can you point me to an article on this subject? (Preferably something that illustrates what convinced you it would be better than the film we actually saw.)

    quote:

    And maybe Pinkava could've done away with Giacchino and grabbed Yann Tierson; it would've resulted in a less-cliche, but still French, score.

    As for the music. Less cliche from Tierssen? Didn't he do the semi-parodic 'typical French' score of AMELIE?!

    Suffice to say, I have a lot of tolerance for cliche in the realm of comedy. It's in the realm of so-called blistering drama that it can really kill a film.

    RATATOUILLE's prime assets as a score are in Giacchino's well-honed ability to make through-scored melodies hit mickey-mousing spotting with the effortlessness of John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith. (To say nothing of the two key melodies, both of which have that instant recall quality that few film themes have for me these days.) I think it's Giacchino's best score to date. He's not the only man who could have done it, but its churlish to suggest he did anything but give the film a top-class score.

    (Especially if the root of your criticism for his music for the film is that the film should've been made by another director. They're not hired to score the films that didn't get made, and they're often fired if they do.)

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    posted 10-13-2008 07:03 PM PT (US)     

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    quote:
    Originally posted by nuts_score:
    I'm going to go into more depth at the end of the year; but here's my favorites so far . . .

    3. The Fall, Tarsem Singh

    7. Man on Wire, James Marsh

    8. Snow Angels, David Gordon Green


    I would like to see these three - SNOW ANGEL in particular.
    (I'm not sure what to make of a list of your favourites though if it includes INDY IV, since you were unrestrained in your criticism for that film on its release.)

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    posted 10-13-2008 07:05 PM PT (US)     

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    quote:
    Originally posted by franz_conrad:

    I would like to see these three - SNOW ANGEL in particular.
    (I'm not sure what to make of a list of your favourites though if it includes INDY IV, since you were unrestrained in your criticism for that film on its release.)

    Be wary, Snow Angels isn't perfect, and rests solely on the fantastic performances of Sam Rockwell and Nicky Katt (and, surprisingly, Kate Beckinsale). The melodrama lays on thick, and, unlike previous DGG efforts (George Washington, All the Real Girls, and Undertow) there's very little audience release from it. It's very bleak, and, in a sense, the affirming ending seems tacked on. I found the book to be a better all-around piece of art, similar to No Country for Old Men. If DGG hadn't made Pineapple Express, then this would've been his worst. It's not so bad to neglect it (like Express), but I've no interest to watch it again.

    I included Indy IV because, along with the others, I saw it in the cinema this year. Don't get me wrong, the film was f--king dreadful. And painful.

    Isn't my intellectualism vast?

    Oh, and Jan Pinkava's Ratatouille? Look below . . .

    http: //jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2007/06/27/the-art-of-ratatouille-gives-its-readers-a-glimpse-of-the-picture-that-pixar-animation-studios-almost-made.aspx

    http://animated-views.com/2008/pinkava-on-pixar-projects/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Pinkava


    [Message edited by nuts_score on 10-13-2008]

    [Message edited by nuts_score on 10-13-2008]

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    posted 10-13-2008 07:53 PM PT (US)     

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    quote:
    Originally posted by nuts_score:
    I found the book to be a better all-around piece of art, similar to No Country for Old Men.

    I hope you're not just beating up on NO COUNTRY because it won an Oscar. It's a fine film, and rare case of being equal to a book, I thought. (Though unfortunately I digested them in reverse order - film first, so it's hard to shake the Coens version of it when I read.)

    quote:

    If DGG hadn't made Pineapple Express, then this would've been his worst. It's not so bad to neglect it (like Express), but I've no interest to watch it again.

    How unfortunate. David Gordon Green films are hard enough to come by. Oh well, at least he's getting things made.

    quote:

    Oh, and Jan Pinkava's Ratatouille? Look below . . .
    http: //jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2007/06/27/the-art-of-ratatouille-gives-its-readers-a-glimpse-of-the-picture-that-pixar-animation-studios-almost-made.aspx

    http://animated-views.com/2008/pinkava-on-pixar-projects/


    Hmmm... I don't know if I'm quite all aboard on the Pinkava express yet. About all we know of the film is that it would have been 'more European' in dramatic tone and theme, an adjective used many times. It seems a bit slender to me to go around assuming there's definitely a better film in there. (Though his obvious modesty is a point in his favour - he knows how to play the humility game.)

    (I'm surprised to learn that he co-directed RATA. I didn't even notice his co-directing credit on the film.)

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    posted 10-14-2008 12:00 AM PT (US)     

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    quote:
    Originally posted by franz_conrad:

    I hope you're not just beating up on NO COUNTRY because it won an Oscar. It's a fine film, and rare case of being equal to a book, I thought. (Though unfortunately I digested them in reverse order - film first, so it's hard to shake the Coens version of it when I read.)

    How unfortunate. David Gordon Green films are hard enough to come by. Oh well, at least he's getting things made.


    In regards to NCfOM, on the contrary. I think it's a superb film. As with all Coen films, it's well crafted and finely acted. In fact, I'd include it among their best "serious" fare. The problem for me, is the ending. I love the ending, but it is a very literary ending; and it doesn't work for all audiences, and I think that's a slight fault. Again, I'm not knocking the film, I just think it dug a grave in the minds of the casual cinema-goer.

    Yes, DGG is a tremendous filmmaker for his young age; that said, he's still got a lot in him so a fault here and there is nothing to get frazzled by.

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    posted 10-14-2008 12:51 AM PT (US)     

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    Well then, from an avid yet not high-browed movie-goer, I will say this about No Country for Old Men:

    Well acted, well written, created a palpable sense of anticipation.......but...like with The Fountain forgets what it is supposed to be. I for one have never prescribed to the notion of film as an expressive art form...primarily because they cost so much money to produce. I absoutely understand the last 15-minutes of this film...and I still find it dreadful.


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    posted 10-17-2008 01:14 PM PT (US)     

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Quill:
    I for one have never prescribed to the notion of film as an expressive art form...primarily because they cost so much money to produce.

    No economist would agree with this, provided there are enough people willing to pay to see film used as an expressive artform. It happens more in some countries than others, interestingly enough.

    I think 11 - maybe 12 - years ago I might have agreed with you. But it only takes one artistic film that really hits home to change the whole landscape of your thinking on this issue. You'll pay to see them, pay to make them, and hope to almighty that others will do the same.

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    posted 10-17-2008 09:39 PM PT (US)     

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    That may be...but the other side of the coin is that I have no interest in films for this purpose. I rate them based on the overall entertainment value, and while that is subjective and certainly this movie has its positive elements, the Coen brothers simply gave a big, middle finger to their audience in the last 15-minutes.

    No thanks.

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    posted 10-19-2008 09:49 AM PT (US)     

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    'Entertaining' is too debatable a term. Plenty of people were entertained by the film the whole way through. Just so you have the pleasure of appreciating it, I hope one day the 'lightning bolt' will hit you too.

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    posted 10-19-2008 10:36 PM PT (US)     
     

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