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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
Video of Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard performing the score from the DARK KNIGHT premiere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI37AJ28Ew4

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Hmmm...I still very much enjoy the film but am to a point of annoyance hearing about it. It is certainly not the second coming of christ, and I am certain the box office returns have been inflated by Ledger's untimely demise (in addition to a fantastic performance.) Flame away.

As for the score, what works so well on screen is very repetitive and simple spinning in my stereo. Parts are enjoyable (Like Dogs Chasing Cars, Harvey Two Face) but even those are incredibly simplistic. I really enjoy the sound of the theme represented in Harvey Two Face, but even as I listen to it I realize how rudimentary it is.

I'm sure the simple approach is by design (the silly siren for the joker and the cyclical themes from Zimmer), but let's not make this score into something it is not. Creativity does not always equal ingenuity.

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Originally posted by sean:
Quill, where are you pulling all this stuff from? Words like "simplistic," or even "mature" (and I know you're not using that here) are often thrown around on film music boards and reviews without adequate explanation as to what all that is supposed to entail (I mean, technically, the Jaws theme is "simplistic," but I feel that most of what I read here and say, on FSM, make use of that word in a derogatory fashion), so what exactly do you mean by "simplistic"? (gkgyver, for example, has never given ample evidence or argument to support his opinions in this area, though I think he uses the word "symmetrical.") Or are you just writing it because wherever you live the film is being over-hyped?

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I actually am wondering that to (about the whole simplistic thing). And what makes the Joker's theme "silly"? I personally would find anything other than what they did with his music silly. It's a crazy sound that gives me chills when I hear because I think of the crazyness of that character (Ledger's version that is, not Jack's).

As for it getting as much recognition as it's getting, I can see where some people would get annoyed. If anyone is a member on Blu-Ray.com, you'll see there is a pointless new thread created for the film every single day. As pointless as, "is anyone going to buy this and Iron Man?" No, no one is going to buy this movie ever...

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(gkgyver, for example, has never given ample evidence or argument to support his opinions in this area, though I think he uses the word "symmetrical.")

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Actually, we had this discussion way back after the release of Dead Man's Chest (I think), where I tried to describe it musically, and it more or less boiled down to you giving me hell for showcasing my "arrogant snobbery" or something.

As usual, you wouldn't listen.
Just for the record.

Zimmer uses so often only the notes of a block chords with nothing but a block chord supporting it, and that in distractingly easy progressions; and the lack of tasteful dissonance (or lack of understanding for it) is also very flat and boring.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
I wonder at which point I'll regret re- entering this thread.

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Right now, hopefully. It's still hilarious that you spend so much time in threads about scores you hate: I don't think the LOTR Package Update has been updated in a while, go check on that will ya'?

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Originally posted by nuts_score:
In other news, has anyone heard this yet? I'd be curious to know if these three composers re-use any of Zimmer's or Howard's themes.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:

Actually, we had this discussion way back after the release of Dead Man's Chest (I think), where I tried to describe it musically, and it more or less boiled down to you giving me hell for showcasing my "arrogant snobbery" or something.

As usual, you wouldn't listen.
Just for the record.

Zimmer uses so often only the notes of a block chords with nothing but a block chord supporting it, and that in distractingly easy progressions; and the lack of tasteful dissonance (or lack of understanding for it) is also very flat and boring.

I wonder at which point I'll regret re- entering this thread.

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Simplistic is a comment based on my untrained ear. If you are claiming this score and its themes to be musically complex somehow...I would be interested to hear it.

Even then, I don't need a score to be complex to enjoy it. This score is mildly entertaining outside of the film, and works great in context. That's it for me.

And Nuts, I can make whatever statement I feel like in regards to the siren sound. For me, it is the least effective of the music in the film. I could see one argue that it represents his slowly building madness (or the building tension of Gotham City). However, the character of the Joker has almost zero development over the course of the film (Nolan has stated this himself.) The character is meant to be mechanism to propel the story (not quite Nolan's exact quote, but close.) The Joker states several times that he is an Agent of Chaos...for me, this theme does not capture any element of chaos. Oh...and I simply don't like the way it sounds.

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While you might not like his music for those reasons, that doesn't mean we're idiots for liking it.

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No, you're not idiots.
You're just pretty ignorant for insisting that musical criteria, such as originality or purely technical layers, are irrelevant when evaluating any score.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:

No, you're not idiots.
You're just pretty ignorant for insisting that musical criteria, such as originality or purely technical layers, are irrelevant when evaluating any score.

I don't condemn you or anything for being more easily pleased, so don't pick at me for being not as easily fed as the next fat guy in the line at Burger King.

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See, here's the thing though. I didn't come off and say "you're a snobby dick who has his nose so stuck up in the air that he must have trouble breathing" but you're calling me ignorant for finding joy in film music that fits my taste more than yours. I also never said (or insisited) that "musical criteria, such as originality or purely technical layers, are irrelevant when evaluating any score." That's just something you yourself came up with. I simply said it was a taste issue and that it's subjective wether someone enjoys a score a not. You shouldn't try to put them down because of it, nor should you think you're hot **** because you don't like the score and feel like you're a big man for standing up against people who do like it on a message board. Anyway, I am done wasting my time with you now. Cheers.

Everyone notice how Quill responded? Respectfully. He didn't put down our opinions and he never tried to make us look like idiots for liking this music. By using terms like "for me" and "I" he effectively stated his opinion and in a respectful way. I even agree with some of his opinions which I'll address now.

The Joker back story thing. I personally find it creepier that we didn't see his background. The first time we hear his story about how he got his scars I thought it was disturbing but "mehish". Then the second time we heard it (or more so the second story he tells) I realized what he was. Just a crazy crazy person who needs a theme that doesn't quite do anything except makes your hair stand on end. And it was successful IMO.

As for the CD release... I find myself skipping tracks. Track 13 sounds like "Am I not Merciful" from Gladiator, and parts of A Dark Knight sound like Ambrose's theme from M:I-2. For both those cues, I felt they worked better when they were in Gladiator (just because that version was much more emotional) and in M:I-2 (because I simply don't like that theme so it'd be fitting it'd be in M:I-2) than when they were in The Dark Knight.

I am saying there are objective criteria (not all of them are objective but there are plenty) for evaluating music, and some people should start getting used to it and also realise that it has nothing to do with the personal enjoyment of a score.

There is some merit to this, but given the arc of the story, I am very pleased with how they handled it.

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Originally posted by Quill:
Clay...I think your point is that there was not enough time spent with him as the classic Two-Face villain.

There is some merit to this, but given the arc of the story, I am very pleased with how they handled it.

Gotcha Nuts.

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Clay...I think your point is that there was not enough time spent with him as the classic Two-Face villain.

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Originally posted by NeoVoyager:
Perhaps, but remember... they could spend a lot more time on him in the next film. Muahahahaha......

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Originally posted by Stargate:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by NeoVoyager:
[b]Perhaps, but remember... they could spend a lot more time on him in the next film. Muahahahaha......<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>
So did he die or not at the end?

[/B]

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And knowing Gordon's mischievous ways, there's no doubt that he'd have no guilt hiding the real Harvey Dent . . . in Arkham Asylum!

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Originally posted by nuts_score:
Eckhart has signed for another film and I believe that Nolan has gone on record of saying that the fall was only about the distance that Batman dropped Maroni; Dent/Two-Face perhaps suffered a broken neck.

And knowing Gordon's mischievous ways, there's no doubt that he'd have no guilt hiding the real Harvey Dent . . . in Arkham Asylum!

Two-Face ain't dead, trust me. Plus, think of the story possibilities if Gotham finds out their un-corruptable new Commissioner has been hiding Dent. I think that could be very interesting. I bet that Chris and Jonah Nolan think the same.

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