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"The Dark Knight" / Trailer 2

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Author	Topic: "The Dark Knight" / Trailer 2

Crono/Kyp Standard Userer	Yay! http://www.whysoserious.com/happytrails/trailer.htm --Brian
posted 05-04-2008 10:58 AM PT (US)

NeoVoyager Standard Userer	Downloading now...
posted 05-04-2008 12:24 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	Lovely! Looking forward to it.
posted 05-04-2008 04:17 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Standard Userer	I saw this trailer last night before IRON MAN and I was underwhelmed. Why does this movie look like BATMAN 1989 plus the Joker crashing a party a la the Penguin in BATMAN RETURNS? Yet despite this pokey preview, I still look forward to the film. My only hope is that there isn't some insulting and inane villain plot like BEGINS to ruin my Saturday!
posted 05-04-2008 05:05 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	Ryan, honestly you're digging too deep into this recent Internet fad of calling Nolan's new The Dark Knight as similar to Burton's Batman '89. Other than the movies including some of the same characters, and maybe some locations that have existed in nearly every comic book film since Batman (remember that Ra's Al Ghul interrupted a party in Batman Begins) these two films couldn't look anymore different. Nolan is shooting for the Gotham described and illustrated in the classic Batman stories of the 70s, whereas Burton, having never touched a Batman comic, just asked Anton Furst to create a visually stunning fever dream of Gothic architecture. Nolan's films are deeply rooted in noir and crime films (where Batman should be), whereas Burton's films were more fantasy and fairy tales. And, really, you're calling the final plot reveal in BB as "insulting"? It's a goddamn comic book adaptation. I thought the rushed story logic was insulting in Iron Man, but I didn't complain while I was on the ride. It's also helpful to point out that Nolan has said on many occasions that these were to be his "Bond" films; meaning that this is a superhero who could exist in the real world, and he's just following through with Bond-ian villians. I thought that Ra's Al Ghul's idea of a defeated (and afterwards, rebuilt from crime) Gotham was very cool, and very comic-inspired. We'll be seeing those effects in this film. [Message edited by nuts_score on 05-04-2008]
posted 05-04-2008 06:26 PM PT (US)

Kevin Standard Userer	Sorry to those of you who like those other upcoming films, but Dark Knight is the only film I have been looking forward to this whole year.
posted 05-04-2008 06:48 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Andrew, if you look back Ryan has a lot of bad ideas for/about Batman that aren't worth your time; just read what he thinks of the music, it's on par with any amount of "criticism"/bashing that gkgyver likes to "write." I'd ignore his posts. [Message edited by sean on 05-05-2008]
posted 05-04-2008 08:24 PM PT (US)

Camillu Standard Userer	I'm not worried about the film itself, but I personally preferred the first full trailer to this one.
posted 05-05-2008 05:39 AM PT (US)

Tristan Standard Userer	I'm personally stoked about this movie, as well. I'm really liking Heath's choices for The Joker. That obsessive licking around his mangled chops is a great detail for the character. I also like how they put more emphasis on his "calling card" from the first movie. And the foreshadowing of the inevitable destiny of Harvey Dent is great, too. This new trailer following the new one sheet poster graphics release from last week is awesome marketing strategy, btw. People should take a lesson...like Lucasfilm. Who woulda thought we'd be licking our chops for a new Batman movie. I expected when Burton was canned and schlocky Schumacher took over, the franchise was finished. I know this one is going to be just as good as BATMAN BEGINS...although, I still, in my movie dreams, wish I could just glimpse Sean Penn's version of The Joker. He was an original casting choice for the current movie, I read. [Message edited by Tristan on 05-05-2008]
posted 05-05-2008 09:37 AM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Camillu: I'm not worried about the film itself, but I personally preferred the first full trailer to this one. I actually agree with you. This new trailer seems a lot like the old one, but they're trying VERY hard not to give anything new away. It seems like they took the second trailer and tried to toss in some shots of Harvey Dent. Not nessisarily a bad thing, just didn't have the major "HOLY CRAP!!!" factor the second trailer had. Plus, this download version... and this is really the reason my thumbs are down for this post... IS IN FREAKEN MONO!!! WHAT AN OFFENSE TO THE SCORE!!! They had the trailer on Iron Man and man, the score was freaken powerful. Then you listen to this and explosions are the same level as dialogue, and the score that is supposed to sound extremely full at the end is very underwhelming. They also did this to the new Indy preview... jackarses...
posted 05-05-2008 10:47 AM PT (US)

BigT1981 Standard Userer	Typical of Ryan always having something negative to say rolls eyes.
posted 05-05-2008 11:11 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Clayton: Also, in that 6-minute IMAX preview for The Dark Knight (that was attached to I Am Legend) the score was mixed LOUD, very LOUD, like it should be... It was impressive, and that wasn't just for the score-only part of it in the last 30-seconds or so, but for the entire bank heist; I was impressed, and the music was great, too. Did you notice the slightly new variation on the Zimmer theme during the part where Bruce is talking to Rachel on the balcony? I thought that was cool. [Message edited by sean on 05-05-2008]
posted 05-05-2008 02:27 PM PT (US)

Quill Standard Userer	Looks sweet!!! I thought the first preview was too Joker centric...this one has the right mix of all the characters. And I thought the trailer giving away too much of the story was a normal gripe around these parts.
posted 05-05-2008 05:14 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: Clayton: Also, in that 6-minute IMAX preview for The Dark Knight (that was attached to I Am Legend) the score was mixed LOUD, very LOUD, like it should be... It was impressive, and that wasn't just for the score-only part of it in the last 30-seconds or so, but for the entire bank heist; I was impressed, and the music was great, too. Did you notice the slightly new variation on the Zimmer theme during the part where Bruce is talking to Rachel on the balcony? I thought that was cool. [Message edited by sean on 05-05-2008] Yup! And! Part of it almost sounds like a new version of what was used in the end credits for Begins.
posted 05-05-2008 07:22 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Yeah, it's an alternating two-note theme that develops rather nicely in three parts mixed in with that end credits motif from Begins. I hope it's part of the new theme.
posted 05-05-2008 10:58 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	quote: Andrew, if you look back Ryan has a lot of bad ideas for/about Batman that aren't worth your time; just read what he thinks of the music, it's on par with any amount of "criticism"/bashing that gkgyver likes to "write." I'd ignore his posts. [Message edited by sean on 05-05-2008] You know, it's not nice talking about people behind their backs ... but that's probably just how your manners are. I find it fascinating that you probably went back and edited your post so you could sneak that little reference in. But to "write" something about the topic, I enjoyed Ledger's performance enormously in the trailer, and I believe it can be an even better film than BB if it will focus correctly and isn't all over the place, like Spider-Man 3. If I have any expectations for the score, then it would only be, finally, a proper theme for Batman.
posted 05-06-2008 07:57 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	gkgyver: Writing on a message board isn't writing "behind someone's back" (clearly!), it's there for you to see, and see it you did; unless someone alerted you that your name was mentioned, which I would find quite humourous. I went back and edited my post to fix a typo, that's it, your user name was always in it: Come on, you and Ryan can go hand-in-hand with these tidings. As for your comments about a "proper" theme for Batman... What does that mean? His theme in Batman Begins is nothing short of perfect for that film; it works, there's no way around it, and like Andrew points out, no one can pin Nolan's Batman movies to Burton's or Schumacher's dismal efforts, scores included (which work fine for those movies, but would fail Nolan's Batman). If you like the combination of Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard than you'll get the "proper" theme this time and enjoy it, because it's already been stated to be in the film. Considering your hatred for Zimmer, I doubt you'll like it, that's pretty much a given. Of course, it was never appropriate to put such a theme in Batman Begins, so it's unclear why you would have expected it to be in that film.
posted 05-06-2008 09:33 AM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	So wait, what would be a proper theme? Like a huge popcorn super hero theme like Superman? I don't know if you've seen Batman Begins, but that's not that kind of movie. These are dark, serious, dramas that just happen to be about a "superhero." I don't think I'd even call him a superhero, considering he has no powers really. It's just a man who has been trained by the best with a lot of money to spend on gadgets and wants to make a difference due to his tramatic past. So in short, if you want some huge theme popcorn theme as opposed to a 2 note theme that still provokes feeling and is incredibly appropriate for the film, you probably should look at a more comic booky comic book movie...
posted 05-06-2008 10:26 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Oh boy ... First of all, yes, I've seen BB several times. Secondly, there are several grades between an all-out-heroic-bombast theme like Superman and non-melodic, repetitive, themeless underscore a la Batman Begins. The, apparently very common, point of the score's fans, that dark/dramatic should be reflected by having no theme whatsoever for Batman is ridiculous because it lacks any kind logic. The last time I checked my feelings, a dark and dramatic tone comes from dark and dramatic harmonisation/ orchestration, which has zero to do with the score having one or several main thematic threads (or not). Quite on the contrary, a personal theme defines a character. If Bruce Wayne is just a man who has been trained, then let the theme show that. As it is, the score sees its function in supporting the picture, but without any trace of character, sense of place or shape. It's neither dark, nor dramatic in a musical sense, it's just "there", being masterfully nondescriptive. The ONLY places the movie reaches a down to earth, dramatic if you want, feel is when you hear the Bruce/Rachel theme (seemingly written by JNH). Don't you want to realise there are dozens of possibilities between a popcorn theme and a two-note motif? You can have a theme in a million of different orchestral settings, but that just wouldn't be the Zimmer way, would it? A "proper theme" is a theme that can be noticed as such; with a characteristic structure, like a proper sentence.
posted 05-06-2008 11:45 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Bruce Wayne/Batman indeed have several themes/motifs in Batman Begins: As you pointed out, the two-note motif, which actually works just fine in several arenas: the darker aspects in track 1 for Bruce's journey, the heroic arrangement in track 4 (at the end), and even more grand, during track 10, it slides more to Batman than it does Bruce Wayne; so, then there's Bruce's theme heard in the film where he and Liam Neeson are in the firelight after the glacial ninja scene, on the tarmac where Alfred greets him for his return to Gotham at the end of track 3, and on the CD in suite form in the finale track; and there's partial and near-undeveloped traces of Batman's outright heroic theme heard most clearly in the first minute-or-so of track 10 (and also briefly in track 3 and track 8); a full-blown treatment would have been a disaster. gkgyver, the type of score you seem to desire for Batman Begins wouldn't work, because what's there works just fine and isn't as simple as you'd like to pretend it is. If there's a problem with the score and it's release, IMO, it's the heavy use of Mel Wesson's sound design/synth work that clutters up the balk of the score on disc; a better release could have been compiled--as is, I only listen to the ninja training music, parts of track 3, and absolutely all of track 10, which is awesome. I'd give the release a */***.
posted 05-06-2008 01:00 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	So what are the themes heard in the second track, the fourth track, the 10th track and the final track? You seem to be picking out the 2 note "theme" and ignoring the rest unless you think it's written by James Newton Howard. At least that's how I am getting it. It's also very, VERY likely they didn't want a huge theme, popcornish or dramatic. To me, the music fits the movie perfectly, never getting in the way, but always evoking emotion. Now, if you want themeless noise, check out Iron Man.
posted 05-06-2008 02:56 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Agreed about Iron Man. About the big Batman theme: Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard had written a grand, heroic theme for Batman for Batman Begins, but they felt it didn't suit the picture, and they're absolutely correct in that assumption, so they kept it in the wings for the second film where he'd have "earned" it by that point. No trouble there. Their approach for Begins is fine and works in tandem with the film; we're just spoiled by other hero films delivering spectacular grand themes that it was a bit of a surprise not to hear this in Begins, especially with Zimmer and Howard at the helm: Both can deliver undeniable bombast when called upon. As for who wrote what, some sections are obvious, and other sections are not... gkgyver seems to approach it where Zimmer did this cue and Howard did that cue; that's not how it worked, every piece was done by the both of them--you'll notice in other scores that their respective styles can be remarkably similar at times, so nitpicking isn't a reliable option here. NP: Superman: The Movie John Williams ***/*** [Message edited by sean on 05-06-2008]
posted 05-06-2008 03:32 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	Buy the hype boys. Buy it big. Surely this film will be worth all the excitement millions of people are anticipating from it. I like BATMAN BEGINS. I will probably like THE DARK KNIGHT. But for crying out loud - it's just another bloody Batman movie. Yet another bloody comic book movie. It's not the Second Coming, a New President who will Make Us Happy, the Turning of the Tide or the Cure for Cancer or anything.
posted 05-06-2008 05:13 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	Originally posted by franz_conrad: Buy the hype boys. Buy it big. Surely this film will be worth all the excitement millions of people are anticipating from it. I like BATMAN BEGINS. I will probably like THE DARK KNIGHT. But for crying out loud - it's just another bloody Batman movie. Yet another bloody comic book movie. It's not the Second Coming, a New President who will Make Us Happy, the Turning of the Tide or the Cure for Cancer or anything. You're right, we shouldn't get pleasure from movies or movie music. What were thinking? But seriously, while new presidents might make you happy, maybe a new film might make us feel the same way. You don't see me going into the on going LOTR discussions and going "please, go outside and stop analyzing these scores repeatedly." I personally will get hyped up for what I want to get hyped up about, especially considering that it shouldn't offend anyone at all. [Message edited by scoreguy16 on 05-06-2008]
posted 05-06-2008 05:25 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by scoreguy16: You don't see me going into the on going LOTR discussions and going "please, go outside and stop analyzing these scores repeatedly." I dare say it wouldn't bother me if you did, as I don't post there either. (Though it was not always so, but a lot of things can change in three years.) In any case, be at peace, because I wasn't quite talking to you.
posted 05-06-2008 05:45 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by franz_conrad: [B]. . . a New President who will Make Us Happy . . . [B] Don't you guys have kings or emperorers in Auatralia? Stay out of our Yankee affairs!
posted 05-06-2008 09:33 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Michael: It's going to be a great thing all around, The Dark Knight that is. Other than Indiana Jones and this Batman movie I've got blinders on to what else is coming out to take seriously, or care about.
posted 05-07-2008 11:11 AM PT (US)

StarlessWinter Standard Userer	I watched Batman Begins the other night, and while I didn't dislike the score, I do have to agree with gkgyver in that the music is often highly repetitive. The repeating action underscore motif that sounds identical to the one in Transformers appears in countless scenes (and often without accompaniment).
posted 05-08-2008 10:14 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by StarlessWinter: The repeating action underscore motif that sounds identical to the one in Transformers appears in countless scenes (and often without accompaniment). Don't you mean Transformers sounds identical to Batman Begins, and not vice-versa?
posted 05-09-2008 12:27 PM PT (US)

Aman from Middle-Earth Non-Standard Userer	Considering Transformers came after Batman.
posted 05-09-2008 02:34 PM PT (US)

StarlessWinter Standard Userer	I didn't mean that Batman Begins stole from Transformers; I was just noting the comparison to make the motif clear.
posted 05-09-2008 05:35 PM PT (US)

Stargate Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by StarlessWinter: I didn't mean that Batman Begins stole from Transformers; I was just noting the comparison to make the motif clear. That's because Steve Jablonsky secretly runs Remote Control and ghost writes all of Hans Zimmer's music. There's a big conspiracy out there.
posted 05-09-2008 07:21 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by StarlessWinter: I didn't mean that Batman Begins stole from Transformers; I was just noting the comparison to make the motif clear. It sure doesn't read that way.
posted 05-10-2008 02:08 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	That's disadvantage of the i-net - you read suggestions into a text that aren't really there.
posted 05-10-2008 04:22 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: That's disadvantage of the i-net - you read suggestions into a text that aren't really there. Sometimes. With his/her comments it was deliberate wording, and more careful thought would have helped. NP: Batman Begins HZ/JNH */***
posted 05-11-2008 12:45 AM PT (US)

StarlessWinter Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by StarlessWinter: [b]I didn't mean that Batman Begins stole from Transformers; I was just noting the comparison to make the motif clear.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> It sure doesn't read that way.[/B] If a=b, then b=a. Why does it matter if I say which one is identical to which? They're the same.
posted 05-11-2008 01:05 PM PT (US)

NeoVoyager Standard Userer	While that may be technically true, there are ways to make one's meaning clearer. But since we all know quite well that Batman Begins came before Transformers, why are we even carrying on arguing about this? Just drop it!
posted 05-11-2008 02:41 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by NeoVoyager: While that may be technically true, there are ways to make one's meaning clearer. But since we all know quite well that Batman Begins came before Transformers, why are we even carrying on arguing about this? Just drop it! Dropped. It's just a dumb example of bashing.
posted 05-11-2008 05:00 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Again, you read that into it. What you see in others is a mirror image of yourself, it's called resonance. "Starless Winter" took an example for his claim, and since he didn't know how to describe it, he mentioned the motif from Transformers for comparison because it is the same. To be perfectly honest, you seem a little paranoid - and unnecessarily hurtful.
posted 05-11-2008 06:47 PM PT (US)

StarlessWinter Standard Userer	Thank you, gkgyver. I wasn't bashing anything - just giving my opinion on something I find repetitive. And yes, we should probably drop the argument.
posted 05-11-2008 07:33 PM PT (US)

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