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Question about cd cues compared to the exact music from the movie with Hans Zimmer
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Topic: Question about cd cues compared to the exact music from the movie with Hans Zimmer

Vladimir
Standard Userer

I have always been curious why when I listen to a score in the movies the track on the score cd sounds different. I am a big Zimmer fan and he is who this seems to occur with alot. I just rented Pirates 3 and noticed cues from the cd sound alot different in the movie. Also i have noticed this on his work with the Rock. Is it that we sometimes never hear the finished product and just a close sound? Thanks
posted 12-05-2007 10:12 PM PT (US) 
Sylvos

Non-Standard Userer

They're not THAT different, in general. It's just that he usually puts cues together to make long suites and to do this he sometimes cuts parts from the original cue, record some new stuff or add stuff that was never even used when he first recorded the score for the film and etc so that the cue plays smoothly and sounds almost like a single piece of music. And the idea of suites is... well, better listening experience for "general audience" who may never even notice the difference as the melodies are generally identical.
That's what I think.
posted 12-06-2007 04:36 AM PT (US) 
HadrianD

Standard Userer

The movies that Hans works on usually have long post production time which would always mean that the music can change in anyway. Some of the tracks on the album would end up being non-finalized work products. Compare (edited) The Peacemaker album to the complete original version. The album also has the original suite that he wrote prior to actual scoring.
posted 12-06-2007 07:17 AM PT (US) 
scoreguy16

Standard Userer

Well one of the things I noticed on Pirates 3 is that the CD is mixed differently than what's in the film. It's the same basic music, but there's some synthesized instruments missing and stuff. But then in "What Shall We Die For" there's an added choir on the CD so it goes both ways. I personally prefer the old way that Hans released CD's (like The Peacemaker, Broken Arrow, The Rock...) just because it seemed like a lot more effort went into them and they flowed better than pretty much any other score CD out there.
posted 12-06-2007 10:43 AM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Standard Userer

Ok so you guys know what i am talking about so i don't sound crazy . At times I prefer Zimmer's work on the screen compared to the cd release. There are a few times in Backdraft where the movie sounds better than the cd.
posted 12-06-2007 01:13 PM PT (US) 
sean

Standard Userer

Backdraft has a poor mix, IMO, on disc, including that remastered release that came out a while back.As for the compiling job done on Zimmer's scores, I think they're done pretty nicely and the mixes tend to be superior to the film mixes. However, there is the issue of what material to include and exclude from the release. Tears Of the Sun. Black Hawk Down, and Batman Begins suffer pretty harshly because of the poor choices made on what music makes the release and what doesn't: That's more of an issue of "diversifying" the release; for example, many of the pieces on the BHD CD could have been dropped altogether, in favour of including more action music and the emotional variations on the "Leave No Man Behind" theme, which would have been great! Instead, we're given 2 action pieces ("Chant" and "Tribal War"... and a 3rd could be made from "Syncrotone") and 2 variants on the main theme (the end of "Syncrotone" and "Leave No Man Behind"); it's poor judgment on the part of the album compiler.
posted 12-06-2007 02:27 PM PT (US) 
mathew

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by sean:
However, there is the issue of what material to include and exclude from the release. Tears Of the Sun. Black Hawk Down, and Batman Begins suffer pretty harshly because of the poor choices made on what music makes the release and what doesn't:I agree. The Batman Begins album should have had the final train chase on it. Great material.
posted 12-06-2007 02:47 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy16

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Vladimir:
Ok so you guys know what i am talking about so i don't sound crazy . At times I prefer Zimmer's work on the screen compared to the cd release. There are a few times in Backdraft where the movie sounds better than the cd.Backdraft is just a poor recording in general. It makes me wonder what would happen if League of Their Own was released because the recording for that is pretty similar... As for Black Hawk Down, I remember watching a feature on the DVD and Blu-Ray where Zimmer talks about how the music for the movie wasn't finished when they put the CD together. So basically, what's on the CD is the early versions of some of the tracks. But I don't think that CD is quite as poorly done as Tears of the Sun. Not only does that CD not flow at all, but multiple tracks are just themeless droning. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, however in the movie there's so much good music that it's hard to imagine them thinking that the droning is better than whatelse is in the film. As for Batman Begins, I don't mind that CD that much. But it seemed slightly rushed and unorganized and the action is to little with to much inbetween. Also there's way too much Ducard music. We really only needed to hear that theme once or twice on the CD and I think it actually repeats more than it repeats in the film. But I do love the way the CD ended. There's something about a CD ending the way it began that I like... Plus the big emotional music (which wasn't in the movie) was pretty good. Personally I can't wait to hear what they do with The Dark Knight...
posted 12-06-2007 03:57 PM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Standard Userer

Speaking of Pirates 3 and batman Begins, those are two movies that could have had a breath taking score release. I always have liked Batman Begins and what Zimmer and Howard did. The cd is good but the movies music was MUCH better. Just rented Pirates three lastnight and again the movies music was sooooooo much better. Dont get me wrong the cd release was the best of the three movies. However the cd could have been longer and different cues. The beginning in Singapore has some great cues.
posted 12-06-2007 06:19 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy16

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Vladimir:
Speaking of Pirates 3 and batman Begins, those are two movies that could have had a breath taking score release. I always have liked Batman Begins and what Zimmer and Howard did. The cd is good but the movies music was MUCH better. Just rented Pirates three lastnight and again the movies music was sooooooo much better. Dont get me wrong the cd release was the best of the three movies. However the cd could have been longer and different cues. The beginning in Singapore has some great cues.What would you have included on Pirates 3? I think that this represents the majority of what was in the film without repeating to much of the music from the first 2 films.
posted 12-06-2007 07:44 PM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Standard Userer

Well scoreguy i would have to agree with you that most if not all of the themes are in the third cd. However, i just enjoyed how Zimmer was able to use these themes in many different ways. I guess i just enjoy his music and enjoy how he can write one theme and use it in many ways.
posted 12-06-2007 09:26 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy16

Standard Userer

Don't get me wrong, I'd purchase a complete score to Pirates 3 in a heartbeat, but I do like the CD as it is and understand why they released it this way.
posted 12-06-2007 09:37 PM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Standard Userer

Agree with ya 100% wouldnt it be nice if complete scores were the only score releases.
posted 12-06-2007 09:59 PM PT (US) 
HadrianD

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Vladimir:
Agree with ya 100% wouldnt it be nice if complete scores were the only score releases.
Ahh, the reasons for our dreams.
posted 12-07-2007 08:11 AM PT (US) 
gkgyver

Standard Userer

Say about Zimmer what you want, but he always compiles pretty good, coherent albums that flow nicely as concert pieces.
The Da Vinci Code is one of the better examples ...if you like his music, of course

posted 12-07-2007 08:14 AM PT (US) 
HadrianD

Standard Userer

That's true of most Zimmer releases. The best and, possibly, most extreme, example of this is K2. Best 2 track @ 40 minute release that gives you all the ranges of the emotion.
posted 12-07-2007 01:17 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy16

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by HadrianD:
That's true of most Zimmer releases. The best and, possibly, most extreme, example of this is K2. Best 2 track @ 40 minute release that gives you all the ranges of the emotion.Yeah, same with Crimson Tide & The Peacemaker (5 tracks @ around 60 minutes). While we're talking about The Peacemaker, for some reason, I absolutely love the last 2 minutes on the CD (which wasn't even in the film). Anyone with me on that? No? Everyone sick of the dramatic vocal thing?
posted 12-07-2007 01:48 PM PT (US) 
mathew

Standard Userer

Yeah, The Da Vinci Code works pretty well as an album. I listen to it a lot.On the other hand we got albums like Pearl Harbor. One action track and only 45 minutes of score. There is so much good music missing here. I know Zimmer had a deadline to put this album together. Nevertheless the CD was a big disappointment.
[Message edited by mathew on 12-08-2007]
posted 12-07-2007 02:30 PM PT (US) 
nuts_score

Standard Userer

All CD releases being complete scores? I once had this dream, and then it became tedious and overlong, just like many of the complete scores available.For our sakes, we had better hope for a good mix and compilation of the cues if they really need a lasting impact. Don't get me wrong, there are a few scores that have great complete releases (the recent North by Northwest and many current composers promos being steady examples) but a lot of the stuff out there works perfectly in 40-60 minute runtimes.
And for the record, Zimmer's concert piece arranging is usually a hit. DaVinci and PotC: AWE being recent stellar examples.
posted 12-07-2007 06:33 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
