Horner's done a lot of period epics, sure; but these two stand out for me:

CORNER 1: Braveheart

CORNER 2: The New World

Braveheart

Braveheart on the other hand has a number of standout moments, which are best appreciated if you've never heard any other Horner score. The last 2 tracks are superb.

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Originally posted by sean:
The New World wins, because I can't stand Horner's Celtic music.

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Can you stand any Celtic music?

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Originally posted by Camillu:
Also, Braveheart was a much much much better film IMO.

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Ouch; did we see the same film?

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Originally posted by StarlessWinter:
Can you stand any Celtic music?

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No, just Horner's.

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Originally posted by nuts_score:
Originally posted by Camillu:
[b]Also, Braveheart was a much much much better film IMO.

Ouch; did we see the same film?

[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by sean:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by nuts_score:
[b]Originally posted by Camillu:
[b]Also, Braveheart was a much much much better film IMO.

Ouch; did we see the same film?

[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Braveheart is ridiculous. A Mel Gibson movie can never top (or even come close to) a Terrence Malick film; especially when using rubbish like Braveheart, one of the worst films ever made.[/B]

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Braveheart, IMHO, is one of the very best films ever made. And Horner's score is one of the best film score ever composed.

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:
Braveheart, IMHO, is one of the very best films ever made. And Horner's score is one of the best film score ever composed.

-Erik-

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Originally posted by sean:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Erik Woods:
[b] Braveheart, IMHO, is one of the very best films ever made. And Horner's score is one of the best film score ever composed.

-Erik-<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Andrew, jump in here... I'll follow.[/B]

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Fine, you don't have to agree with me, but to me - it's one of the most enjoyable films I've ever watched. Now, all historical inaccuracies aside I hang onto every moment of this from the acting to the cinematography to the direction and the music. I love the epic scope of the film, the characters, the dialogue, the battle scenes, etc. I've watched it countless times and I still love it as much as i did the first time I saw it in the theatre. It swept me away and has continued to entertain ever since. I LOVE IT! It's one of my all time favorite films.

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:

Braveheart, IMHO, is one of the very best films ever made. And Horner's score is one of the best film score ever composed.

-Erik-

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I agree about the film... one of the fasted 3 hour films ever... But the score.. there's a few tracks that I skip over and some tracks that I listen to over and over again because the themes are so great. As for The New World, although a number of tracks are litterally ripped off of The Thin Red Line (imagine that), I don't ussually skip any of the tracks. There's something very soothing about that CD and it makes me want more. So really, I love the themes from Braveheart, but I also love the themes from The New World... So I am undecided...

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:
Fine, you don't have to agree with me, but to me - it's one of the most enjoyable films I've ever watched. Now, all historical inaccuracies aside I hang onto every moment of this from the acting to the cinematography to the direction and the music. I love the epic scope of the film, the characters, the dialogue, the battle scenes, etc. I've watched it countless times and I still love it as much as i did the first time I saw it in the theatre. It swept me away and has continued to entertain ever since. I LOVE IT! It's one of my all time favorite films.

-Erik-

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Originally posted by sean:
<BLOCKQUOTE>

This is all very disturbing.

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Deal with it!

-Erik-

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:

Deal with it!

-Erik-

[/B]

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Originally posted by sean:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Erik Woods:

Deal with it!

-Erik-

<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! What's with this guy? I didn't even attempt to bash, as per Peter's request, and I won't even do so now: But, I am laughing.[/B]

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Nothing is wrong with me... however you seem to have a big problem with my taste in film.

-Erik-

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:

Nothing is wrong with me... however you seem to have a big problem with my taste in film.

-Erik-

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Not at all. I don't even care, to be honest. Like Braveheart to your heart's content: No complaint from me there. Don't make stuff up about me.

Firstly, Braveheart revived interest in this big-budget historical epic hoopla; which also gave us Troy, Alexander, Gladiator, The Four Feathers, and 300 ("Oh, scissor me Xerxes!"). So I have to thank Mel Gibson for delivering upon us some very bad and boring movies. Thanks Mel; I did enjoy Apocalypto however, except for the awful ending. We should also keep in mind that Braveheart was written by Randall Wallace, who also delivered us the scripts for We Were Soldiers and Pearl Harbour; Braveheart includes all of those same historical inaccuracies of those films, including the awful, hammy dialogue. Jesus Gibson's accent? Pretty hammy as well. Catherine McCormick's breasts, however, were a nice touch; but why weren't we given the same oppurtunity with the devastatingly beautiful Sophie Marceau? The battles are well choreographed, true. And John Toll's cinematography, as always in his case, is very effective. But Gibson's direction in the smaller, quieter scenes is rather amateurish. Especially when Patrick McGoohan tosses his gay son's equally gay advisor out of the window. The film's message of freedom also seems very heavy-handed and Gibson-approved. And, is it just me, or are Braveheart and The Patriot nearly the same movie? They both make out the Brits to be sadists and rapists (not to mention the ultimate evil) and they both feature mad Mel performances that are equally laughable.

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Originally posted by sean:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Erik Woods:
[b]
Nothing is wrong with me... however you seem to have a big problem with my taste in film.

-Erik-

<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. I don't even care, to be honest. Like Braveheart to your heart's content: No complaint from me there. Don't make stuff up about me.

[/B]

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Then why are you soooooo disturbed with my positive comments concerning the film?

Now, Erik, take none of this as an attack on you personally, because it isn't. You're free to love this movie all you want, nobody's stopping you.

I would assume a great many people would dispute the claim that James Horner's music to Braveheart is "one of the best film score ever composed." It isn't, IMO. Horner's collaborations with Mel Gibson are often, if not always, sub-standard (even for Horner, and I'm no hater): That movie where Mel Gibson touches young boys (I forget the title, Man With A Broken Face, or something like that?), and silly Apocalypto, for all those who've never seen a chase movie before: Gibson treats his audience with disdain. James Horner's hum-drum "emotional" scoring elicits none of that here. It really hurts using that barrage Celtic instrumentation, too; the only time this ever worked was in his minimal use of it in Willow. That aspect aside, there's nothing compelling about the action music: The cue for his wife's murder and the horse chase after his betrayer are yawn worthy, the latter being lifted directly out of Clear And Present Danger.

Poor Patrick McGoohan, being forced to have his (vast) talent put to the mercy of Mel Gibson's incompetent direction. Gibson's worst offense, as director, is that outrageous dream sequence: That was a bucket of laughs! Also, that "We'll builds sticks the size of men!" speech is hilarious! Yes, The Patriot is the same movie as Braveheart, and just as jingoistic and callous. These 2 films, along with Galipoli, form a string of Gibson's anti-British fair; an alarming facet of this individual. Andrew, Sophie Morceau naked would have been enticing and could have brought the film to a higher level sophistication than previously allotted to it.

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:

Then why are you soooooo disturbed with my positive comments concerning the film?

-Erik-

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Erik, that's called a joke. Notice the face at the top of my post? (Same as this one, so you don't have to scroll up.)

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Originally posted by nuts_score:
[B]My opinions on Braveheart are as follows:

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You seem to have a BIG problem with what the film influenced rather then the film itself. Strange...

As for Horner'r score... well, it's all about taste. I have no problem with Horner's Celtic music especially in Braveheart. I'm not sure how you can not get goosebumps listening to "The Legend Spreads" Amazing combination of traditional symphony orchestra and Celtic elements. I love it!

Oh well...

Anyway, no offense taken and I hope I didn't offend any of you. That wasn't my intent here. You two clearly HATE Braveheart while I adore it. I'm sure that if we continue this conversation to include other favorite films that this would just get ugly. We've have all had our say so let's just end it here.

Deal?

And Horner's Celtic music is some of the worst music ever commited to film.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, scissor me Xerxes, that episode was hilarious.

Yes, Mel Gibson's films are never historically accurate (for example in Apocalypto when the Spanish come to mesoamerica, there would actually me no myans living in those giant pyramid temples at that time. There was a decline in that civilization hundreds of years before the spanish came. He did this for the dramatic effect, "an artistic license." When a film like Braveheart isn't historically accurate but is as entertaining and well made as it was, I could care less about the accuracy. Now in the case of 300, Troy, and Alexander...those films were terrible.

Ever heard of the words:

- pretentious
- ridiculous
- overdone
- laughable

Hmm? Art is one thing. "The New World" is another.

EDIT: I just know I'm going to be roasted in a fashion very reminiscent of yesterday's stuffed birds! Oh well. You all can continue to philosophize about the depths of knowledge and beauty bequeathed by Terrence to you all through his latest masterpiece.

I see "pretentious" thrown around a lot at other forums; but I'd hoped that we would avoid that overused word on these boards. What exactly is your definition of "pretentious"?

And what about The New World doesn't strike you as an artform?

Ridiculous is a funny adjective too; especially on a thread regarding Braveheart.

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Posted by Erik Woods
Well, it's obvious that the two of you have an issue with Mel Gibson which I guess blinds you from the great film making in Braveheart.

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Hmm? Art is one thing. "The New World" is another.

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On this, and this alone, we shall agree.

As for Erik: Meet someone from Scotland and ask them what they think of Braveheart! Tell us what your answer is, because I've heard several that are quite hilarious and un-postable.

It's not that it is not artistic... on the contrary, it tries to be SO artistic that it's more like watching an art exhibit with sappy narration than watching a movie (how often were characters actually speaking their lines in real time? I didn't bother anymore about half way through and just assumed I would rarely see lips moving when voices were speaking).

All 5 of us who saw this (and mind you, I was the one who spearheaded the idea to see it because I really wanted to see Malick's latest work) could not suppress laughter anymore once we were in about the last third of the film.

It was just so overdone. If you can't see that or don't see my point still... then go ahead and enjoy it!

Edit: ... and the acting was uniformly really good too! What a shame...

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Originally posted by Camillu:
It's a bit pretentious to say that 'no Mel Gibson film can ever be better than a Terrence Malick film'....

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Not at all, it's scientific fact.

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Originally posted by Stargate:
Braveheart wins. No contest. Next round, please.

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