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Old Star Wars subject but what of it?
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Topic: Old Star Wars subject but what of it?

Maestro Sartori

Standard Userer

Okay...everybody and their padawan learner has put their two credits in on this topic, but I have to know.Many people have suspicions (based on the documentary feature on Episode III) that Lucas may put a CGI Yoda into a newer edition of The Phantom Menace. Many claim it is because he was never happy with the new puppet (who was?), and wants to make it gel with the films that followed.
Okay...he wants the whole series to really look like it was all one movie broken into six parts?
Then, WHY doesn't he have John Williams re-record score using Darth Vader's Theme (Imperial March) in Episode IV???
Talk about your continuity errors. He never used the motif from IV in the prequels.
JC
posted 06-07-2007 05:35 PM PT (US) 
Wedge

Standard Userer

Answer: because if George Lucas wants the Imperial March in Episode IV he'll just track it in from Episode V.Frankly, if the man had any sense of artistic integrity, he'd pony up the cash to have Williams rescore the entire Prequel Trilogy in its final edit.
posted 06-07-2007 06:08 PM PT (US) 
BackToTheFutureFan

Standard Userer

I really like Vader's 4 note motif in episode 4 though.
posted 06-07-2007 06:18 PM PT (US) 
alan_manc

Non-Standard Userer

If Lucas had a drop of artistic integrity he would release the films in high-def including the edits that Williams scored to. That way Williams wouldn't have to be dragged back in and we'd have his scores used with some respect.I have a sneaking suspicion that, at least in the case of The Phantom Menace, Williams scored a better film than we finally saw.
I would, however, love for Lucas to revisit Revenge Of The Sith and allow Williams to compose some original music for what should have been one of THE key moments in the saga - Anakin leading the assault on the Jedi Temple. Could not believe my ears when that scene was scored with tracked music.
Regarding the Ep IV issue...part of me thinks that the score is perfect as it is. Its just unfortunate that Lucas decided to make the films the way he did and that it lead to some continuity issues with the music. If Williams did do some work to get the 'Imperial March' in though, would it mean that we had to loose his original Vader/Empire motif? Could they not be made to co-exist?
All pipe dreams of course because the most Lucas is likely to do is add some CG creatures falling over or performing slap-stick in the background.
posted 06-07-2007 07:08 PM PT (US) 
sean

Standard Userer

This is a mess already ...The only scene in A New Hope that I think would greatly benefit from an inclusion of "The Imperial March" would be a subtle version in the piece, "Tales Of A Jedi Knight," where Ben talks about Luke's father and the Clone Wars. It'd work better because the 4-note Vader motif used in the film and played softly during this scene just doesn't cut it, IMO, and is interspersed with much superior material, and that is the Ben Kenobi/Force theme. Other than that one instance, the dramatic performance of the 4-note motif works just fine to quickly establish evil.
Forgetting the new trilogy for a minute, as is, the introduction of Vader's theme over the Star Destroyer fleet in The Empire Strikes Back is really the best possible and dramatic way to showcase that unforgettable music in a great scene, and sets Empire apart from the first film right off the bat (just one example of many in this brilliant movie).
Maestro Sartori: It isn't suspicion that Yoda will be re-animated for The Phantom Menace, its fact. Whatever the reason, it really doesn't matter because that particular puppet they used looked like crap.
alan_manc: Why should Lucas release the SW films in HD? HD looks like junk regardless: The pixels are all visible. Besides I only have two eyes (how much more clear are these films supposed to look?) and can't be f*cked forking out the cash for an HD TV and an HD DVD player when there's bills to pay and scores to buy! I rest my case.
posted 06-07-2007 08:58 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Standard Userer

Lucas has screwed with the orignal film enough. What Williams composed for Star Wars is fine and should not altered or re-scored in any way. The Imperial March does not need to be in the film.
Yes Yoda will be CGI in TPM re-issues, in fact you can see it in the ROTS bonus material. They have the sequence where Yoda is talking to young Anakin in TPM about hate leading to this and anger leading to blah blah blah. Anyhoo it's a CGI Yoda.
Lucas needs to let Williams go back and score the final battle from AOTC. Although based on the entire score to the film it appears Williams was about as enthused as I was after viewing that mess of a film.[Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 06-07-2007]
posted 06-07-2007 09:39 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by sean:
alan_manc: Why should Lucas release the SW films in HD? HD looks like junk regardless: The pixels are all visible. Besides I only have two eyes (how much more clear are these films supposed to look?) and can't be f*cked forking out the cash for an HD TV and an HD DVD player when there's bills to pay and scores to buy! I rest my case.Whoa, someone has HD envy. HD is the bomb, Sean. Movies in HD-DVD and Bluray formats have completely reinvigorated my enthusiasm for watching movies at home. I can appreciate the problem of not having the cash to afford an HD setup, but don't trash the tech b/c of it. The technology is amazing, and frankly movies have never looked this good. I saw Pirates 3 in DLP, and it still simply did not compare to watching Pirates 1 and 2 at home, on my 53" LCD. Those Bluray discs are a cut above the clarity you'll find in the theater. Can't wait until 4k projectors or the like become affordable to the point that theater chains can start running these HD masters on the big screen. That'll be the day. Until then, watching movies at home is a new favorite past time, and the catalogs are constantly growing. To anyone with an enthusiasm for movies (which I think all of us fit that description), an HD TV w/ HD-DVD and Bluray capabilities is well worth the investment, if you can afford it.
That said Sean, if the films you've seen in HD are showing compression artifacts, or as you say "the pixels are all visible," well, the display you're viewing them on is either not good, or the film you're watching hasn't been transferred and mastered properly. The HD movie market still has some kinks its working out, for instance, they'll be re-issuing a new edition of "The Fifth Element" b/c the version that came out looks like sh*t, and the right amount of care wasn't given to the transfer. There's an art to all of this, and some boobs are coming out of the gate w/o proper quality assurance. "Total Recall" is another. Movies like "Serenity," "The Mummy" movies, and "Pirates" 1 and 2, "Children of Men" and even "Happy Feet" look unbelievably amazing. Resurrection experience, basically.
[Message edited by Jeron on 06-08-2007]
posted 06-08-2007 12:54 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Standard Userer

Total Recall has always looked like **** , no matter what format. Actually, all of Verhoven's movies look like hell with each upgrade they do.
posted 06-08-2007 02:36 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
Total Recall has always looked like **** , no matter what format. Actually, all of Verhoven's movies look like hell with each upgrade they do.Surely it can be remastered by a skilled technician. There are films out there that have no right to look as good as they do, considering the age. I imagine Totall Recall has the potential to look awesome.
[Message edited by Jeron on 06-08-2007]
posted 06-08-2007 02:50 PM PT (US) 
BackToTheFutureFan

Standard Userer

So does Starship Troopers, another Verhoven flick.
posted 06-08-2007 03:16 PM PT (US) 
BigT1981

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:
Lucas has screwed with the orignal film enough. What Williams composed for Star Wars is fine and should not altered or re-scored in any way. The Imperial March does not need to be in the film.I agree with this... why there are so many people who want this changed is beyond me. The original score is fine the way it is.
quote:
Lucas needs to let Williams go back and score the final battle from AOTC. Although based on the entire score to the film it appears Williams was about as enthused as I was after viewing that mess of a film.This I certainly agree with. Why that they decided to take such a long sequence and track music into it is beyond me. They also need to cut down "On The Conveyor Belt" scene and re-insert the original music.
Also on a side note I think that Lucas should release the [b]theatrical editions of the Original Trilogy on either DVD or HD format and given a proper digital restoration.posted 06-08-2007 06:29 PM PT (US) 
sean

Standard Userer

Nah, Jeron I've not seen a good HD DVD presentation yet; and I've seen Revenge Of The Sith projected digitally at the theatre (I hope to hell that isn't the future), too, and that looked worse. I'm glad its reinvigorated you, that's fantastic, but I never really lost my drive to watch films and buy/rent DVDs, so I'm fine with what's out there already: 2 eyes! HAHA!And man, that is slim pickens from those HD discs you've mentioned! Hell, Serenity is the only good movie you mentioned there... and Total Recall, but like you says, bad transfer (wish I could be surprised). I see all those HD DVDs on the shelf and you know, they're all movies I don't wanna' own: releasing crap that looks like crap. I'm a tough sell with this one.
[Message edited by sean on 06-08-2007]
posted 06-08-2007 06:31 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Standard Userer

Between Bluray and HD-DVD, I own about 40 titles, all of which I'm happy to own and for the most part, I'm thrilled with their transfers. I was just rattling off a few... it's really not slim pickings, and they are going through and releasing back-cataloged stuff all the time. Quite frankly, and this will be a saving grace for you, I think I'm an early adopter and that there's going to continue to be speculation on the format. But, I think the industry will resolve on (most likely) both, and really it's a great direction we're going. That sucks you haven't had a good experience. Once you own an HD TV, try enjoying all of your classic DVDs in comparison to their HD counterparts. There is no comparison... nothing an upscaler can do will render the films in as close-to-archival quality as you'll get with HD DVD formats.That said, most everyone has two eyes (sorry for those that have one, and cool if you've got three!)... and while this holds true, quality of vision consistently fluctuates from person to person... sooooo, might wanna go have those TWO EYES checked, Sean.
Of course, the witty response would then be "but, I've got 20/20..."
Ah, but see... stole your thunder there.[Message edited by Jeron on 06-08-2007]
posted 06-08-2007 08:09 PM PT (US) 
sean

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Jeron:
That said, most everyone has two eyes (sorry for those that have one, and cool if you've got three!)... and while this holds true, quality of vision consistently fluctuates from person to person... sooooo, might wanna go have those TWO EYES checked, Sean.
Of course, the witty response would then be "but, I've got 20/20..."
Ah, but see... stole your thunder there.LMAO! I wear glasses! and need hearing aids: that's why I like bad movies and listen to Hans Zimmer's music. jk of course.
posted 06-08-2007 09:18 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Standard Userer

Hey, I've only got one eye...that works and my vision is horrible, trust me, and HD anything looks stunning.Jeron said everything I would have said, seriously, Sean, get new eyes. I bet you could find some on ebay or the black market down the street.
Either that or you are suffering from HD Envy...which the only cure for is a shopping spree.
--Brian
posted 06-08-2007 11:31 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Standard Userer

While Blue-Ray and HDVD's look good, the picture quality isn't that much of a big deal. Regular DVD's played on a good DVD player look just fine on my 47" HDTV.I've a shelf full of laserdiscs I need to get rid of and I'm getting too old to turn around and change formats again.
Now watching NFL, NBA and College Football on my TV in HI-Def is worth it.posted 06-09-2007 09:22 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Standard Userer

The anamorphic DVD resolution is the minimum for a bigger TV, and the bare minimum for a projector.The only reason why I'm not really looking forward to the day when the new formats become affordable is their heavy reliance on DRM.
posted 06-09-2007 09:46 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:
I'm getting too old to turn around and change formats again.No offense Mark, but as with Sean and using "I don't have enough money" for invalidating HD as a superior quality format, "I'm getting to old" seems to be similar reasoning. This just simply isn't true. The difference between standard def and high def DVD formats is the difference between VHS and standard def DVD. A DVD is capable of at maximum a 720x480 image. There's no way that is in the least bit comparable to 1920x1080. Try running your screen at 640x480... then tell me you don't prefer 1920x1080, if you have a display that will natively support this (otherwise you'll be squinting your eyes). No amount of good DVD player capability can extract more information from that 720x480 than what's there. And there's a lot of intricate detail that simply gets washed out in the lower resolution. Same goes for photographs. Compare a first generation 1mp digital photograph with today's mainstream 8mp. No comparison. No one would in their right mind choose 1mp over 8mp.
I hold my position in saying that HD DVD formats are preserving films at the highest quality we've ever seen, and I don't see the market making a major shift for quite awhile. The current HD specs will most likely serve us as long as VHS has.
[Message edited by Jeron on 06-09-2007]
posted 06-09-2007 10:26 AM PT (US) 
vdemona

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
The only reason why I'm not really looking forward to the day when the new formats become affordable is their heavy reliance on DRM.Thank you. That's my issue with these formats as well.
posted 06-09-2007 10:50 AM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Standard Userer

To bring this discussion back on topic, I agree with those who say don't bother tinkering with the score for Star Wars, there's nothing wrong with it. Hell, it even won an Oscar.The Imperial March doesn't appear because John Williams hadn't written it yet, and that's just the way it is. So what if it is the one score that the theme doesn't appear in, you have five other scores that do feature it.
I was once an early adopter, but in this case I'm going to wait until the market evens out a little. I have an HD ready television, but until combi players become more affordable, I'm waiting it out. That said, I am indeed looking forward to when I can enjoy movies at home in HD.
I myself would rather watch the original version of the first trilogy than any of the revisions, which I didn't think were necessary. I'm not interested at all in the prequels, they were so godawful.
posted 06-09-2007 11:08 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
