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Author	Topic: Let's talk modern scores...

PeterK FishChip	I just read Panzerfaust's review of John Williams' War of the Worlds and it got me thinking: Have we come up with a good list of very modern film scores from the last few years? I enjoyed elements of the discussion started by JaredC a week or two ago, and after reading the review referenced above, I am ready to dig in to more modern stuff. Anyone want to make suggestions and and start cracking this list? With your suggestions, let us know what makes any particular score "modern" as we know this can be debated. This should make for an interesting week of listening to film scores.
posted 01-24-2007 10:27 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	I'm on it, and War of the Worlds is one of Williams' only recent works that I continuously come back to; so let's add that as number one.
posted 01-24-2007 12:03 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	Here's the list of what I could consider to be the benchmark, and masterpiece scores of the Modern Age (IMO, 1985-Present). Jurassic Park and The Lost World, music composed by John Williams War of the Worlds, music composed by John Williams The Fly, music composed by Howard Shore The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, music composed by Howard Shore Hellraiser, music composed by Christopher Young The Thin Red Line, music composed by Hans Zimmer Cutthroat Island, music composed by John Debney Batman and Batman Returns, music composed by Danny Elfman Edward Scissorhands, music composed by Danny Elfman Snow Falling on Cedars, music composed by James Newton Howard Signs, music composed by James Newton Howard Alien 3, music composed by Elliot Goldenthal Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, music composed by Elliot Goldenthal Dances with Wolves, music composed by John Barry Tombstone, music composed by Bruce Broughton Conan the Barbarian, music composed by Basil Poledouris Robocop, music composed by Basil Poledouris American History X, music composed by Anne Dudley Troy (Rejected), music composed by Gabriel Yared Aliens, music composed by James Horner The Edge, music composed by Jerry Goldsmith The 13th Warrior, music composed by Jerry Goldsmith Frankenstein, music composed by Patrick Doyle Great Expectations, music composed by Patrick Doyle [Message edited by nuts_score on 01-25-2007]
posted 01-24-2007 12:20 PM PT (US)

Camillu Standard Userer	Ones that come to mind: The Sixth Sense, for giving an already-great film an touch of class, and for making the climax all the more memorable after a whole film of subtlety. Unbreakable, for managing to be a subtle yet very thematic score, and for slowly making Dunn's fetas more heroic until the fantastic Orange Man scene, and for incorporating electronic music fantastically into the pivotal scene.
posted 01-24-2007 02:26 PM PT (US)

Erik Woods Standard Userer	I will add Edward Shearmur's superb Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow -Erik-
posted 01-24-2007 02:44 PM PT (US)

Squiddybop Standard Userer	Maybe I'm wrong, but I think everybody may have missed the point of Peter's initial post. I'm pretty sure that he's looking for a list of recent scores that are composed in a more modern classical style, akin to Corigliano's Altered States and Don Davis's Matrix scores. NP: The Spirit of Suriyothai (Richard Harvey) [Message edited by Squiddybop on 01-24-2007]
posted 01-24-2007 04:11 PM PT (US)

JaredC Non-Standard Userer	I haven't heard enough film scores to know of any off the top of my head that are very modern in the sense of modern classical music. Of course, there are many schools and styles in modern classical music so it would be hard to say whether something is or isn't in that realm. I do know of some works originally written as modern concert works that have been used in films, however. Dennis McCarthy now and then writes some stuff that seems pretty effective and deviates from the musical 'norm' but his music on the whole seems kinda lukewarm, underwhelming to me. I do like the cue 'Time is Running Out' from Star Trek Generations... it's only a minute or so long but it's the best thing I've heard by him. -Barfly, a movie I've never seen and don't know much about, apparently makes use of the first of four movements from a piece by John Adams called Shaker Loops... this is absolutely my favorite piece of music from any musical genre (I highly recommend it!) so I would hope the music was a powerful addition to the film. (If you ever see this CD cover http://www.amazon.com/John-Adams-Shaker-Wound-Dresser-Machine/dp/B00030B9F2 somewhere, pick it up! A fantastic performance of the piece, quite inexpensive too). -Gyorgy Ligeti's music has been featured prominently in several films, and his music is pretty out there (and quite good if you're in the right state of mind to listen to it!). 2001: A Space Odyssey made some of his work very well known... apparently his music was also in The Shining and Eyes Wide Shut... I have not seen either movie. -Igor Stravinsky I know wrote some film scores back in the day... though it may seem like it was some time ago, music that would seem 'modern' to most of us started being written way back in the very first part of the 20th century. -John Corigliano is a professor of composition at Julliard, and I've listened to his first symphony which is superbly, intelligently written good and very modern. I don't know how much of modern music makes it into his film scores however, as I haven't heard any of them closely. Sorry I'm so vague with all these examples, I really ought to do my homework in this area more! I listen to film scores, and concert music, but I suppose modern film scores are something I need to listen to/investigate more. Oh yes, Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes... which I also have yet to listen to... grr I guess I have some work cut out for me. [Message edited by JaredC on 01-24-2007]
posted 01-24-2007 07:09 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Squiddybop: Maybe I'm wrong, but I think everybody may have missed the point of Peter's initial post. I'm pretty sure that he's looking for a list of recent scores that are composed in a more modern classical style, akin to Corigliano's Altered States and Don Davis's Matrix scores. Well, Peter does bring up the point of lists in his initial post; so I imagine these lists work well for his discussion. Although many of the scores I list fall under the category of "modern classical style. Most certainly the works by Goldnenthal, Shore, and Elfman (though only two of those three are classically trained). Certainly Shore has garnered his "modern classic" status of the mammoth LotR scores. quote: I will add Edward Shearmur's superb Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. Actually, I find it great that you bring this one up Erik. I purchased this score in December and I wrote the following in my mini-review on the December collection thread: quote: I'm growing tired of these: scores that sound like a particular temp track that you just can't shake the similarities. If you've heard Shearmur's score (keep in mind, I find Shearmur to be a great composer after The Count of Monte Cristo and Reign of Fire) and anything with the name "Superman" or "Star Wars" in it than you undoubtedly know what tempp was used. All in all, this is a mediocre release. It reminds me of JNH's King Kong. I'm sure I would have loved this early in my collecting career. But I must find myself at fault; one that I was even willing to bring up in a seperate thread later. After having much time to dissect Shearmur's score I take every first impression I had of it away. The score is a stroke of adventurous genius; one that I feel JNH could have taken some lessons from on his King Kong score. I never doubt Robert Elhai's value as a orchestrator (hell, without him Goldenthal wouldn't be my favorite composer) and I've certainly never disliked any of Shearmur's previous efforts. There's a rousing quality to the score that brings an exuberant grin to my face every time the main theme comes in; it's truly magnificent.
posted 01-24-2007 07:56 PM PT (US)

tjguitar Standard Userer	To participate, I'd have to better understand what exactly is being referred to as "modern".
posted 01-24-2007 08:15 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	I don't mind the paths a free-flowing thread might traverse, although Squiddybop is more right than wrong. By introducing a review that spoke precisely to the ideas of where "modern classical" music has gone (is still going?), vis-a-vis atonal, discordant, etc, I was hoping it would be a clear indicator of where I would have liked discussion to have gone... and that I wanted recent years, like from 2001-present! I could have expressed things better, but I'm not unhappy with where things have gone so far. Elliot Goldenthal used to be the synonymous name for modern classical scores, but now that he's not scoring films much anymore I feel he's left a void that I haven't thought about filling until now. So far I see War of the Worlds, Signs and a few others making the cut. I envision these scores must be somewhat known, or be attached to films that are relatively regarded. I still haven't really hunkered down to think about it with my collection yet... but likely will. I know there are some to be discovered again. So, TJ, to answer your question: scores that have a (faint or strong) resemblence to Williams' War of the Worlds. Would Minority Report be considered? I don't want John Williams to dominate just because he's John Williams. But certain suggestions beget more certain suggestions!
posted 01-24-2007 08:41 PM PT (US)

Squiddybop Standard Userer	I think Christopher Young's score to The Exorcism of Emily Rose probably fits too. Pretty twisted string writing in that score. NP: Cantando dietro i Paraventi (Han Yong) [Message edited by Squiddybop on 01-24-2007]
posted 01-24-2007 08:58 PM PT (US)

tjguitar Standard Userer	quote: So, TJ, to answer your question: scores that have a (faint or strong) resemblence to Williams' War of the Worlds. Would Minority Report be considered? I don't want John Williams to dominate just because he's John Williams. But certain suggestions beget more certain suggestions! I'm not really a big fan of either of those scores. Part of WOTW sounds similar to the Rite of Spring. My dad always says 'you need a few drinks before you listen to Stravinsky' I guess I just prefer more melodic, tonal stuff.
posted 01-24-2007 09:08 PM PT (US)

JaredC Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by nuts_score: [Certainly Shore has garnered his "modern classic" status of the mammoth LotR scores. From the perspective of the 'classical' music world I'd have to disagree... The Lord of the Rings seems like something from the romantic period, very tonal and very conservative. Not that that's bad, it's suberbly written! It's just in an idiom that in the modern day could hardly be called 'groundbreaking' or 'new.' That said I don't think modern music has to be atonal or dissonant to be considered original or modern. (Take Shaker Loops for example! It lacks chords and melodies but it's hardly dissonant, in fact it's really very easy to listen to.) War of the Worlds seems similar to Stravinsky, as someone above mentioned. Though that's pretty daring compared to most film music, Stravinsky was writing that kind of thing nearly a century ago. Not to say that's bad, I think music in Stravinsky's idiom is something that's largely ignored and had barely been explored to its full potential. If we're talking in terms of scores written in the past 5 years or so as opposed to ones written before that, I personally don't believe there's much difference. Film composers simply aren't allowed as much to be creative and original as much as a composer writing freelance or in a conservatory would be. And sometimes film composers simply aren't aware I think that they can be more original than simply writing the same melody over the same chords.
posted 01-25-2007 06:09 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	Oh okay, so that's where the discussion is headed. In recent times I've definitely preferred atonal scores to regurgetated tonal scores; especially those from Williams himself. I've never had anything against the man's work and never will, but his Star Wars prequel scores really failed to impress me as much as some others were easily impressed. In my circle of friends I've always recommended that fans of Williams shoudl really consider listening to Stravinsky before calling Maestro Williams original. Certainly some parts of WotW sound like the more percussive and driving segments of The Rite of Spring; hell, the first time I heard "Ferry Scene" I was kind of put-off as to its resemblance to "The Augurs of Spring - Dances of the Young Girls" from Stranvinsky's piece. I even think the opening chords are identical. Many of Williams' action and suspense cues draw immense inspiration directly from it as well. In terms of these modern scores - though I am backing out of the atonal discussion somewhat - is Patrick Doyle. Both his work on Frankenstein and Great Expectations are very original and work substantial amounts as their own written pieces of music (seperated from the images of course). Has Doyle composed an atonal score to anyone's knowledge? I'd love to hear what he's capable of. Back onto atonal: I must admit my absolute respect for Chris Young, who has been brought up many times in this discussion. With Goldenthal taking a some-what leave of absence (was it the well-deserved Oscar?) I think Young stands at the forefront of modern classical/film composers (along with Howard Shore's less-praised pieces, i.e. anything that's not LotR, especially his numerous Cronenberg collaborations). Part of Young's strength is his collaboration with Jeff Atmajian; as co-orchestrators they always search out the instrumentation as diverse and original; the same can be said of Goldenthal and Elhai. Lately, Young has been typecast as a bit of a horror icon (undoubtedly due to his phenominal work on The Fly II and Copycat) which can work on different levels. On the first, his work for these scores is almost too outstanding. Many of the films he scores don't deserve the score he gives them (notable recently: The Grudge 1 and 2 and The Exorcism of Emily Rose) and when he does get chosen to score a smaller, more intimate picture, it's too much for the studio and/or director to get along with their film (shining recent example: An Unfinished Life). Luckily, Young is tapped for both Ghost Rider and Spider-Man 3 (the filmsI could do without but I'll be purchasing the score through pre-order) so hopefully we'll see him stretch his wings more. I just hope Raimi doesn't resort to using Elfman's score for the first i]Spider-Man[/i] yet again. NP> Howard Shore's eXistenZ (***/***) [Message edited by nuts_score on 01-25-2007]
posted 01-25-2007 03:34 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	And how about Desplat? He's a great artisan of a post-minimalist film score sound. He's definitely up there.
posted 01-25-2007 03:38 PM PT (US)

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