Hopefully we can continue to discuss this score in a mature manner.

NP> Horner's The New World (****/*****)

With The New World, I think Malick made all the right musical choices, from Wagner to Mozart to Franciso Lupica's cosmic beam music from The Thin Red Line, and with only a fraction of James Horner's music left intact for the theatrical cut. The pieces of Horner's music in the film seem to have been chosen very carefully and never intrude; had his full score been applied, it would have been intrusive in parts: The battle music, for example, sounds lame on disc and would likely sound no different within the film, and a few other pieces, good as they are on CD, would have been overbearing on film.

I'm sold on the score by the secondary love theme that begins very slowly on piano for Rolfe, the colonial theme that briefly opens the film, and the variations he puts to his Genesis Planet theme from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock.

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Originally posted by sean:
I bet Terence Malick temp-tracked the opening and closing of the film with Wagner's piece and opted to use the temp instead of what Horner conjured up for those scenes. The use of Wagner's music is much better than what Horner wrote: His comes off more like a rip-off; and who can blame him? No doubt he was asked to come up with something similar to the Wagner piece.

With The New World, I think Malick made all the right musical choices, from Wagner to Mozart to Franciso Lupica's cosmic beam music from The Thin Red Line, and with only a fraction of James Horner's music left intact for the theatrical cut. The pieces of Horner's music in the film seem to have been chosen very carefully and never intrude; had his full score been applied, it would have been intrusive in parts: The battle music, for example, sounds lame on disc and would likely sound no different within the film, and a few other pieces, good as they are on CD, would have been overbearing on film.

I'm sold on the score by the secondary love theme that begins very slowly on piano for Rolfe, the colonial theme that briefly opens the film, and the variations he puts to his Genesis Planet theme from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock.

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Spoken like a true man. In agreeance my good boy!

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Also posted by the Bastard Canuck:
As for The New World being James Horner's best score since Braveheart (a lame score at that), I highly disagree. His music for The Missing is his most interesting and thematically strong score in a long, long time, outdoing The New World at EVERY TURN. (Even on-again, off-again Hornert-bashing FSM agrees! Thanks to Jeff Bond.) Give it a spin: The driven action music of that score is augemented by one of his best themes to date.

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Well, funny, I always pass up The Missing seeing as how it's a Horner score to another mediocre Ron Howard film (and those things come in spades!). But, with your's (and who could forget Jeff Bond's) recommendations, I shall be looking for it.

NP> Richard Wagner's "Wotan's Farewell & Magic Fire Music"

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Originally posted by Bagtatta:
...but there was a piece that was played multiple times in the film sort of as a theme..I don't know how to describe it but for me that piece got really annoying in the movie..

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There are three pieces of music that were played multiple times... Horner's horn-led theme (the opening credits, journey upriver), Wagner's Vorspiel (opening scene, Smith returns to the fort, closing montage) and the Adagio from Mozart's Piano Concerto 23 (most scenes between Smith and Pocahontas).

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Originally posted by Bagtatta:
On a more serious note unlike my previous post I would like to say that I haven't heard the score apart from the movie yet. I don't know what piece of music it was, or who did it (I say this cause I see you guys throwing out a different name in this discussion besides Horners,) but there was a piece that was played multiple times in the film sort of as a theme..I don't know how to describe it but for me that piece got really annoying in the movie..

[Message edited by Bagtatta on 09-14-2006]

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Say more. Very unclear.

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Originally posted by Bagtatta:
Wow, other pieces were repeated? I didn't notice that. If I new that I would've been more specific.I can't remember, it starts off low and it's like a slow build-up. I can't remember it 100% I believe it plays right in the beginning after the opening credits and so forth. It sounds like a piano or organ with violins..I don't know how to explain it..I'm sorry. I just know if I like the music, not the instruments and so forth..

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This could be 'Vorspiel', the Wagner piece. It plays immediately after the opening credits, and starts low and has a slow build-up. The only problem is the instrumentation you've named is quite odd... I don't hear a piano there at all... A strong sense of full string complement, woods and brass would be my aural impression of it.

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Originally posted by Bagtatta:
Wow, other pieces were repeated? I didn't notice that. If I new that I would've been more specific.I can't remember, it starts off low and it's like a slow build-up. I can't remember it 100% I believe it plays right in the beginning after the opening credits and so forth. It sounds like a piano or organ with violins..I don't know how to explain it..I'm sorry. I just know if I like the music, not the instruments and so forth..

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They way that you are describing it is a bit off. You mention a piano (which Mozart's concert piece is played on; but there is no organ involved in any of the music in The New World) which isn't an instrument used in Wagner's piece in which I think you're referring to because you mention a soft opening and a slow cresendo (also a mention of the opening credits). Musically and emotionally speaking, it reflects the events in the film outstandinly due to the context it appears in Wagner's Das Rheingold. The E-Flat major chord that comprises the ostinato nature of the piece reflects on an unchanging river (in relation to the film, the lack of great change amongst the Native Americans and what the coming of the settlers will bring; and, some would say, the unchanging nature of Americans since our induction on those shores of Jamestown). It's droning nature is meant to swell and grow in power as it progress, which surmises the nature of Malick's film as well. It's repeated in each of the film's three acts at important interludes in it's context (being the ships port into Jamestown, Smith's reflection and dismissal from the Native's tribe, and the final sequences of Pocahontas and her child playing as Rolfe reflects on her life). I can understand it might become tiresome after a while, but you can't deny it's power in the film.

Bagtatta is right, though, there could be an organ underlying the piece; I can't tell if it's just the bass of the strings or an organ from the recording I have.

Ha Sean glad I'm not the only one hearing an organ. I would like to say that I gave this score a listen once, but only got a couple tracks in. I like the enviorment sounds going on in the background of the music. I don't know why but I'm never in the mood to listen to Horner..in which I've never really listened to him much at all. Maybe it's all the negativity I see towards him. I'll definately have to start changing that up a bit.

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Originally posted by sean:
It's a good thing you're so understanding, nuts, because I can't understand how the Wagner piece could possibly get tiresome.

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Oh Seanster, it doesn't get tiresome to me. I'm a huge fan of Wagner's Ring music and have listened to "Vorspiel" countless times since its use in The New World; but some listeners don't care for the ostinato nature of the music; it's as simple as that.

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Originally posted by nuts_score:
I think what Baggers is hearing (and after discussing it with him on AIM) is the lower brass line and the conjoining woodwinds. An organ would sound too glaringly obvious in a piece like this and I don't ever recall Wagner composing much music for organ; especially in the Ring Cycle.

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Originally posted by nuts_score:
[B] I'm a huge fan of Wagner's Ring music and have listened to "Vorspiel" countless times since its use in The New World

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Originally posted by sean:

I wanna hear you scat that music over at AOL. hahaha

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Hypnotic. I like Desplat, but I greatly disliked this score for the most part. A few of the piano pieces and the opening and ending tracks I enjoyed, but the rest of it was ruined (for me) by the INCESSANT droning electronic bass line.

Said bass line combined with odd instrumentation led to my feeling like I was on some kind of heavy narcotic pain-killer while listening (i.e. out of touch with my surroundings, lethargic, slightly queasy, etc.). I turned it off on my first listen, and have only touched it in very small doses since.