Giacchino is O.K., but I'm interested in what he'll come up with and I'm sure he'll use a full orchestra—that's a given if there ever was one.

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Originally posted by Dinko:
If it's anything like the bland wall of sound MI3 was, they might as well get the worst cues from the various Trek TV shows and just edit those into the new movie. Can't be more forgettable than MI3.

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Can anyone chime in with words on what exactly is the Giacchino signature? People raved about MI:3. I bought it and all I liked about it was the redux of Schifrin's theme here and there. I don't understand the ravings, other than it's cool music done before... all recorded with fantastic precision.

But thanks to his friends, he does get some good opportunities to make some money. Maybe that's all that matters.

Peter Peter Peter....when will you do some research before shooting your keyboard off like that? Before writing a note of M:I iii, Giacchino took Mr. Schiffrin to lunch to discuss the history of the series, explain his admiration for the groundwork Schiffrin's music laid for the spy genre as a whole, and get Mr. Schiffrin's input on what kind of directions the theme might go in without becoming too irreverent. Bottom line: Giacchino respected his M:I source material to a very high degree.

<QUOTE>I've only ever heard Giacchino copy the successful styles of others, from Williams and Jurassic Park video games to Barry and 60s Bond and.... you name it.</QUOTE>

Spoken like a true amateur, Mr. K. If you have truly listend to all the Giacchino scores you claim, then you will hear all the stylistic uniqueness of Giacchino that shines through no matter what genre he's in. He's a fan of shifting synchopation, very rhythmic ostinoto accompaniment, and tons of little motifs that show up from score to score. Just as The Incredibles turned out to be a 60's Barry/Johnny Quest inspired score that went far beyond any action score Barry could have written, M:I iii took Schiffrin's intimate jazzy spy score sound to an epic new level while always maintaining musical reverence for the source material.

<QUOTE><Can anyone chime in with words on what exactly is the Giacchino signature?</QUOTE>

Yes. His signature is that he is a great composer, capable of adapting his unique style to the needs of any film, referencing scores and styles of the past without aping them, and in most cases he improves on those styles.

<QUOTE>Where did Giacchino go to school?</QUOTE>

Julliard. This info isn't hard to find on the web Mr. K.
http://www.michaelgiacchino.com/03_bio/index_bio.htm

-Brendan

-Erik-

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Originally posted by PeterK:
Also, will this Star Trek XVwhateverIV be the first time Giacchino gets to do Goldsmith?

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No... Giacchino will do Giacchino!

He takes composers to lunch. He might have even studied with some. He inserts tons of motifs in scores. He's a fan of certain techniques of musical composition. He can adapt without aping (?) and improves on what's been done.

How come I can think of a few hundred composers who fit that "unique" bill?

When I think of the many composers who've left their imprint on screen with truly unique signatures, there are very specific aspects inside these scores that solidly identify from whence they come.

Listen blindly to something you've never heard of before by Herrmann, Horner, Elfman, Goldsmith, et et etc, heck, even Beltrami and JN Howard, and you know who's written it. I've not heard one score by Giacchino yet that solidly identifies him as the author of the piece. Expanding others' styles and work is good and all, as is noodling with specific orchestral techniques, but that won't do it on its own.

But this is subjective. If you think he's got a signature because "he's a great composer," you got it! But for me, that's not what I mean by "signature." Signature by its very nature means something unique to the owner of the pen.

Sure, I can find out myself where he's gone to school, but why? 1) I am busy and 2) there are 25 other people who've got it memorized. I figured it wouldn't take long for someone to answer the question. I figured correctly, and have you to thank!

I am not blasting G's abilities to write music. I'd much prefer him over a computer nerd composer most of the time. All I am saying is I've yet to hear a signature. With most great composers, signatures have been in place from their beginnings. It's who they are.

Adapting to mimic what studios, producers and directors want out of their "original" music is a strong point in having and maintaining a career in Hollywood 2000s, but the trait is not necessarily something that will transcend film or unique recognizability.

So what about that podcast interview at SoundtrackNet? I've not heard it.

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Bottom line: Giacchino respected his M:I source material to a very high degree.

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Sure, that might very well be, but it doesn't show a bit.
Of course that's better than having no respect AND no skills, like some other famous Hollywood composer.
While listening to M:I 3 I had the same thoughts as PeterK.

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:
No... Giacchino will do Giacchino!

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Originally posted by PeterK:
[B]Listen blindly to something you've never heard of before by Herrmann, Horner, Elfman, Goldsmith, et et etc, heck, even Beltrami and JN Howard, and you know who's written it.

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If you're a fan and regular listener of their work, then yes, you're right. And I contend without a doubt that just like a regular listener of Horner or Elfman or Goldsmith, a regular listener of Giacchino would be able to pick out a score by him as well. Does it depend on how big a "fan" you are? Possibly...but no more or less than any of the other composers' styles you mentioned.

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Signature by its very nature means something unique to the owner of the pen.

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How conveniently ambiguous.

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Sure, I can find out myself where he's gone to school, but why? 1) I am busy and 2) there are 25 other people who've got it memorized. I figured it wouldn't take long for someone to answer the question.

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Well good then. Your "school" comment within the greater context of your post made it sound a bit more derogatory than that, but I'll take your word for it.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Bottom line: Giacchino respected his M:I source material to a very high degree.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, that might very well be, but it doesn't show a bit.
Of course that's better than having no respect AND no skills, like some other famous Hollywood composer.
While listening to M:I 3 I had the same thoughts as PeterK.

Maybe the director or the producer asked him to do this or that sound, but where are the composers that have the backbone to say no to this kind of copying?

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Exactly what did he copy? The two Schifrin themes and the bongos! That's it. The rest is all Giacchino. Are you telling me that Schifrin, in the past, wrote anything as electrifying as the latter half of "Hunting for Jules" or with the same high energy as "Bridge Battle." I don't think so.

As for voice... I think some of you are mistaking repeated ideas as voice. Elfman, Horner, Goldsmith, Goldenthal are all recognizable because they use the same devises over and over again. Giacchino does the same thing, as listed above by Brendan, but some of you have failed to recognize them... which is fine. I mean, did everyone all of a sudden hear John Williams' signature voice after scoring "Not With My Wife, You Don't." No... of course not. Plus, it doesn't help that a lot of Giacchino's work is not available commericallyon CD. Now having access to most of that material I definitely hear a solid, original, signature voice with has influences from other composers such as Horner, Williams, Goodwin, Davis, etc. But what composers aren't influenced by others.

Anyway, I never understood why people harp on the signature voice stuff anyways. Just enjoy the damn music! And if some of Giacchino's music sounds like Williams... well, be glad that he didn't take his music lessons from Hans Zimmer!

Since Giacchino apparently has a signature, what is it? Please identify examples in three or four scores that uniquely point straight back to Giacchino and no one else.

I've listened to as much Giacchino as I have Beltrami; and comparing these two guys, one has a very distinctive voice.

I asked where Giacchino went to school because I wanted to use it as an example of his technical abilities. Sure enough, Julliard graduates learn and display great ability, Giacchino included. There's no derogatory nature in asking this. What you can't learn in school, though, is your voice. Jerry Goldsmith and plenty of other composers have said this in interviews when they are asked about coming up with their voice. This is my point.

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Originally posted by James:
Wasn't Giacchino the one who opted out of scoring The Time Machine because he didn't want to rip off The Edge?

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No... he just didn't get the job.

-Erik-

In terms of albums, I think the best Giacchino release so far, and just maybe the only one that really shows him writing in his personal way throughout, is Lost. I do get a lot of stylistic similarities in M:I 3 though, which I also think is terrific. The Incredibles is a touch overrated and I don't think that is a good place to start, particularly for those who get irritated by pure pastiche. It's good fun, but kinda disposable, is the point I'm trying to make, I guess.

I'm particularly skeptical about Star Trek. I'd rather see someone like David Arnold or JNH tread that ground than MG - but alas, that's not my call. I wasn't a big fan of M:i:3, and a lot of it has to do with what Peter has been talking about - the undetectable voice. I still to this day can't seem to fully enjoy The Incredibles. For some reason it just feels like something I've heard before, something that's allegedly "new" but also trying way too hard to sound like something that came before it, something better. It's sincerely difficult to get past that as someone who's grown up listening to the originals... John Barry, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, and even those who came before them.

Michael Giacchino has written music that I appreciate and enjoy. But I can't say that I anxiously look forward to his new projects. Star Trek is a bit personal for me, as I'm a dedicated Trek fan, I'm familiar with every note of every movie score and released tv score (and even some unreleased). There's a bar that has been set. Jerry Goldsmith was and will always be the truest voice of Trek film, even beyond what Horner, Eidelman, Rosenman and McCarthy successfully accomplished.

That said, J.J. Abrams would also not be my first pick for Trek XI. I'm less alarmed by that as it could be good (I'm even a little excited). And I'm willing to give Michael a chance on the score... but that's something I can't get excited about it w/o some automatic trepidation.

Jeron

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Originally posted by Jeron:
That said, J.J. Abrams would also not be my first pick for Trek XI. I'm less alarmed by that as it could be good (I'm even a little excited). And I'm willing to give Michael a chance on the score... but that's something I can't get excited about it w/o some automatic trepidation.

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Earlier in your post you named the person I would love to see do a Star Trek score (David Newman) - I'm sure he would have been Jerry Goldsmith's choice too, since they were good friends.

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Originally posted by JoeinAr:
this will be the worst Star Trek score ever,

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Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:
David Newman already wrote a Star Trek score, it's called Galaxy Quest.

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Originally posted by tjguitar:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by JoeinAr:
[b]this will be the worst Star Trek score ever, <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has to be pretty bad to fall below Rosenman's effort.[/B]

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Originally posted by sean:
I have to agree with those with the opinion that Michael Giacchino doesn't really have have his own musical voice. The big argument here is that there are better, more qualified composers out there that would out-score Gaicchnio any day of the week, especially on a Star Trek film, which is a much sought-after assignment for any composer in Hollywood. IMO, it'd be insane to not consider Joel Goldsmith, Cliff Eidelman, or Brian Tyler for this score, and they'd all easily and in their sleep shoot down anything Giacchino would conjure up for Star Trek XI.

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Right... because those three composers have very distinct musical voices... more so then Giacchino. And you really, honestly think that Brian Tyler has written better and far more original material than Giacchino?

Please.

-Erik-

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Originally posted by Erik Woods:
Right... because those three composers have very distinct musical voices... more so then Giacchino. And you really, honestly think that Brian Tyler has written better and far more original material than Giacchino?

Please.

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Originally posted by Dinko:
As for Tyler/Giacchino, I can't speak for Sean, but as much as I dislike Tyler's scores, yes, he has written more original stuff than Giacchino. You can pick out his thematic writing. And many of his scores have a few stand out cues (that don't just rely on loud noise to make an effect).

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Now YOU are talking nonsense. If there is one composer of the new breed that has yet to find his musical voice it's Tyler. Tyler's music borrows extensively from Christopher Young, Danny Elfman, James Horer and Jerry Goldsmith. His "original" themes are based on or complete rips from exsisting themes written by other composers. It's mindboggling that you can say that Giacchino has no voice yet Tyler does. I'm stupified by your comments.

Anyway, like I said in a previous post I never understood why people harp on the signature voice stuff anyways. I also think that you guys are STILL mistaking signature voice for the over use of the same devises over and over again. I prefer a composer who can change styles from film to film and not rely on strutures or devises from their previous scores.

-Erik-