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Author	Topic: Superman Come Back! NO SPOILERS

sean Standard Userer	MUSIC: Ottman's score, other than his paraphrases of the John Williams themes, passes by almost without notice. The "Power Of The Sun" theme is the only other piece that really leaps out from the film's frustrating sound mix (the main titles were far too quiet, but later statements of the Superman theme are surprisingly more pronounced, even out of the barrage of onscreen action). After several listens to the album, and now hearing the score with the film, its clear that John Ottman's music is serviceable, but nothing more. His action scoring in no way compares with what Williams achieved on the original Superman: The Movie. There are no highlights like "Super Crime Fighter" or "The Big Rescue"; from Ottman's palette, "Rough Flight" is as close as the score gets to any good/memorable action writing. nuts_score is correct: Typical Ottman; typical orchestrations; and nothing special. All that said, the reprisals of the original John Williams themes for Superman, Krypton, and Lois Lane are stellar and major highlights... as is the new "Power Of The Sun" theme. Its a shame Williams wasn't able to score this picture himself, since it would have been a huge leap where originality and action are concerned, compared to what Ottman conjured up. MOVIE: NO SPOILERS HERE Superman Returns is fun, humourous, with some spectacular action sequences and a few new surprises. Most fun of all, perhaps, is the use of Marlon Brando's voice in Superman's head, and of course in his appearance in the Fortress of Solitude. The useage is great and effective/affective and utterly seemless; a real treat for fans of the original movie. Action is delivered in spades during the 777/space shuttle rescue sequence. Its breathtaking and the visual effects are stellar. This film was shot digitally, yet it hardly shows (only in darker scenes). Tom Siegel, the DOP, has shown his skill before (most notably with Three Kings) and does an admirable job here: This is his first time in the digital realm. Maybe its just because this is a Superman film, but I think this is Bryan Singer's best movie. Pacing is tight, the humour is earned, and the action is exciting and exhilarating; the emotion, too, is something very strong (and somewhat horrifying) in the film, especially when Superman is at his most helpless: it'll be/it was heartbreaking to watch, being a fan and caring for the character. That said, the acting is great all around, especially from Brandon Routh, who hits all the right beats and its crystal clear that he's the correct man for the role. (I can't even imagine how painful it would have been to see Nicholas Cage or Ashton Kutcher in the role of Clark Kent/Superman.) Kevin Spacey is a good Lex Luthor, and he obviously had fun in the role. Also great, of course, is Kate Bosworth for her Lois Lane! Well played. One bit of continuity that is just too cool is the opening credits (musically going from the Krypton theme in the prologue and then into the main title march as we travel the galaxy) that is identical to the original film, complete with the laser-sounding whooshes for the flying credits, and the font is exactly the way it was 1978. BRAVO!!!
posted 06-24-2006 11:48 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	PLANT!!!!! Haha; it's got to be true. You didn't like X-Men 3 yet you love Superman Returns? Jeez, Warner's marketing firms are really stuping low for their faux reviewers. I didn't even think they allowed Canadians to these things. In all reality, I'm glad you appreciated the film Sean. I got my seats saved for Monday night viewing at midnight as I have a friend working at a local cinema (we frequent the geek attractions: this, Sin City, Batman Begins) and I cannot wait. I haven't been this psyched about a movie since The Phantom Menace. But, hopefully, whereas my anticipation for TPM actually hurt the viewing, I'm hoping that a true human director such as Bryan Singer can deliver the thrills, heart, and character. Sean's review plus the multitudes of pre-release/critic screenings have shown nothing but great things to come for the Big Blue Boy Scout. I can't wait to believe that a man can fly again; this is like childhood all over again. quote: nuts_score is correct Told you so! And I guess in two instances. NP> HGW's Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater DISC 1 (**/***)
posted 06-24-2006 12:32 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	Now it's Tuesday afternoon . . . the Tuesday after my Superman Returns screening! I'll say just one thing to start it off: I absolutely loved it! If that's all you wanted to know, read no further as I can't guarantee I won't divulge spoilers. Now, I'm sure Sean saw this for a mile coming; I'm positive that my Superman babbling drives him crazy just as his Star Trek babbling does to me . Needless to say, I'm a huge Superman fan; from Golden Age to Modern Age. I've even gone to the lengths of fashioning my own Superman script as the ideal movie I'd like to see on screen. Throughout the years, I've always found faults with Donner's Superman. Namely the death of Jon Kent, Clark's bumbling persona on his arrival to Metropolis (both products of Silver Age mythology and continuity), and - most importantly - Lex Luthor as comedic counterpoint along with Otis and Miss Tessmacher (a product of Richard Donner's). Other than that, the movie is a near-wet-dream for any Man of Steel fan. Superman, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, General Zod, Jor-El, they're all characters that are perfectly replicated on screen. To me, Chris Reeve is the sole-embodiment of Supes on screen; which brings the first question up on everyone's mind. How is this new kid as Superman? Well, I think Sean nailed it on the head. Brandon Routh is wonderful as both Clark and Superman. He handles the comedic timings as Clark Kent with a subtle grace and brings an amazing gravitas and heroic stature when he plays Superman. Now, I'm not claiming that the guy makes you forget about Reeve, but he takes the role over as his own; crafting it in his image with a pride and respect for the late Chris Reeve. Just as Chris Reeve was an amazing choice for Superman, Margot Kidder was a spot-on Lois Lane; I just never found her that attractive and her (as I would later find out after reading Easy Riders, Raging Bulls) Hollywood reputation took some of the spirit away. But here's Kate Bosworth, who I only know from Rules of Attraction, playing the role and totally taking it out from under Kidder like a rug. She's wonderful and a nice saving grace for a fan who thought she would be absolute suckage as Ms. Lane. And as far as characters are concerned, last but certainly not least, we have Kevin Spacey's Lex Luthor. A sinister and sarcastic performance, he definitely nailed it. This isn't Hackman's Luthor (thank god!) but his affection for wigs remains intact (a nice touch of the hat Mr. Singer). Which reminds me, this movie is so reminiscent of Donner's film that it feels like perfect nostalgia. Bryan Singer's direction is nothing short of masterful, and it's obvious that scrupulous detail was paid by the entire crew. When you have that sort of dedication on a superhero film, you know you have something good (Batman Begins, X2, Spider-Man 1 & 2). The plot is a standard superhero potboiler, but I'm not expecting Shakespeare out of these. It also plays well into the Man of Steel's weaknesses. Now, that shuttle rescue sequence Sean is referring to; simply breathtaking. It's something that Superman fans have been waiting years to see up on the big screen and when it's finally delivered to us, it's done in spades. From that moment on, I was on the edge of my seat, attention on this entire film (and let me tell you, the final act will have Superman fans in awe at how captivating it is). Now, about Jason being Superman's son (apparently after Lois' and Supes' Fortress of Solitude one night stand and amnesia kiss); when I first heard about the rumor less than a year ago, I didn't know what to think. They're turning my favorite hero into a deadbeat father? No, it's not the case. The kid fits in wonderfully with Singer's vision and does not, I repeat, DOES NOT distract from the character's persona, it adds mounds to it. In fact, as Superman stood over Jason's bed at the finale (notice Jason's Aquaman PJs!) giving him the speech that his birth father had once given him, was an amazing character moment. I love any film that has a sense of continuity or circulation to it (maybe tough to explain). And finally, I save the best for last. The flying sequences, whether they be Superman rescuing the 777, he and Lois' night flight in each other's arms, a simple flight around Metropolis, or his descension back to Earth after fluttering Lex Luthor's plan (notice the Christ-like imagery, such inspiration and beauty) are absolute majesty. You will believe a man can fly . . . again. Keep in mind, this is a movie I wasn't entirely sure could work (I mean, I have my ideal Superman movie stashed away on my hard drive); but still, this review is coming from an enamored Superman fan since childhood: take it lightly, enjoy the movie on your own terms. Most of all, enjoy the movie. [Message edited by nuts_score on 06-27-2006]
posted 06-27-2006 09:23 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE I first knew Superman from the original film and the old cartoons, not from the comics, so my liking of the character, if that's what you can call it (LOL! hell, I used to go to kindergarten dressed in a Superman costume my mom made me), stems from Donner's movie and, of course, from Superman II, and then off into the comic book realm. Watching Superman: The Movie last night for the first time in a long time, the flaws are now more apparent than they ever were: In particular, the casting of the teenaged Clark Kent is way off the reservation; he's too sulky and angry-looking. Done to perfection, I think, is the opening on Krypton and Brando's performance is flawless, as is the visual style. Of course, Reeve takes the cake on the whole. But, nuts_score, I disagree about Miss Tessmacher, I think she's damn sexy wtih some gigantic eye-candy! HAHA! Williams's "March Of The Villains" is a bit too goofy, with no sense of menace or danger... musically, you wouldn't be able to guess it was for a villain, that's for sure. SUPERMAN RETURNS The more I think about this film, the more I love it. It's incredible and hits all the right beats (and notes). The 777 rescue sequence is just breathtaking!!! On second thought, about the score, I enjoy Ottman's music more-and-more with each passing listen. Where it falters occurs in the more atmospheric moments of the score. Thematically, new and old, this score is wonderful. The biggest criticism I have for John Ottman is that he shouldn't listen to James Horner's Brainstorm so much, it really hurts pieces like "In The Hands Of Mortals," which should be a show-stopper given the visual imagery. Overall, though, I have to recant from my original post that his score is mere lip-service to the Superman universe: After further listening and watching the film, it's Ottman's best and strongest effort to date; now, with the film in mind, pieces like "So Long Superman" and "The Power Of The Sun" are now all-the-more heart-wrenching and emotional, while "Saving The World" and "Rough Flight" are all-the-more exciting and fantastic action showcases.
posted 06-27-2006 11:32 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	Now that Sean has brought up Ottman's score (which I unfortunately didn't comment on in my initial review) I think I might shed my feelings on it. I don't own the album yet, but it will be coming soon. This said, I was entirely unaware of what the score sounded like because I avoided Dan's first listen at his site and kept my ears closed. Sean, however, did send me the "Rough Flight" cue and I was impressed, until Williams' theme ended, because then it became typical Ottman action scoring (where Sean's quote of mine comes from). In a way, I've always felt that his action music was simple Mickey-Mousing. Even though I think he had a good year last year with Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang (see this movie, NOW) and his themes for Fantastic Four fit well with the characters (don't see this movie) the action music on the latter is perfect Mickey-Mouse resignation. Watching Superman Returns, I was unimpressed with Ottman's original music (also of note, Sean, I thought the opening mix was fantastic at my theater, you must have had a bad one) at the beginning but it slowly grew on me; especially when the statements of Williams' original theme opened the cues. I can't talk to specifically about any of the cues as existing on the album because I don't own it yet; but I will leave my comments so far as "Ottman's score is servicably good, but he's no John Williams." All in all, I thought John Powell's X-Men 3 was the better superhero score this year. Now back to a scene in the movie that still has me as giddy as the first time I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark on the big screen (DRIVE-IN BABY!) and my first time seeing it in glorious widescreen; when Superman flies above Earth and begins to listen to all the cries for help across the world. He closes his eyes and takes off, to rescue the day. A perfect visual to explain the burden that Superman carries: he's unable to help every individual on Earth, and he's tormented by it. "What do you hear Lois?" "Nothing." "I hear everything . . . That article that you wrote Lois, about why the world doesn't need Superman; why the world doesn't need a savior? I hear people crying out every second for Superman." Absolute perfection in terms of the moral evaluation of Superman. Anyone who says Superman is without flaws didn't pay attention to the film.
posted 06-27-2006 12:25 PM PT (US)

joan hue Standard Userer	I'm glad to read such positive reviews of this movie. Overall, I've read solid reviews from critics; hence, I was surprised to read a negative review today from Ebert. He tends to like too many mediocre movies. I think he "overrates" certain movies. He bashed a lot of this movie, and I am surprised. I'm going as soon as the crowds and schedule allow me to go. NP Scalphunters
posted 06-27-2006 04:41 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	It's ironic that you brought up Ebert review Joan, as Sean and I were discussing it in detail earlier today. This year has been pitiful for Ebert. His reviews have been heavy-handed and studio-biased (the way that I look at them). With a little further detective work still on my part, I've noticed Ebert's glowing reviews for all things 20th Century Fox this year (this includes Garfield: A Tale of Two Kitties, The Omen, Ice Age 2, X-Men 3, and Tristan & Isolde). Now, no one can honestly claim to be a cinema expert; but I notice at least five titles there that were miraculously handed out a free pass by Roger Ebert. Also of note, Joan, it's good that you've read Ebert's review before seeing the movie. Sean and I are guilty of the opposite so it'll be interesting to see what your comments are in regards to his critiques. But, after viewing the film and reading the article I can honestly say that I shook my head and asked myself honestly, "He really doesn't get it, does he?" And I'm sure that both Sean and I could entertain everyone on the notion of his "Spy Kids comment".
posted 06-27-2006 07:44 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by nuts_score: His reviews have been heavy-handed and studio-biased (the way that I look at them). That little independent outfit called Warner Brothers is facing tough times indeed!
posted 06-27-2006 07:58 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	HAHAHAHAH! If only Harry Potter could help them out of this pickle.
posted 06-27-2006 08:56 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Not only does Roger Ebert BLOW one of the biggest surprises Superman Returns has to offer, he recommends that if the film were more like fracking Spy Kids it'd be a better movie!!! What a fool.
posted 06-27-2006 11:28 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Standard Userer	While I disagree with Ebert's Spy Kids comment, I agree with his review almost wholeheartedly. When Clark or Superman isn't on screen, the film grinds to a complete halt. To me, Spacey looks like he's bored as hell in this humorless Luthor role. He looks like he's trying SO HARD to be interested, but it just doesn't work. I realize that people had problems with Hackman's Lex (I think the problems were more with Otis), but I'll be damned if he wasn't charismatic son of a bitch. Also, did Kal Penn have ANY lines as one of Luthor's henchmen? Kate Bosworth was to this what Katie Holmes was to Batman Begins. She didn't ruin it, but she didn't bring anything to it, either. Part of the fun of the first two Superman films are how Lois and Clark interact with each other, and in this one, she practically ignores Clark at every turn. The shuttle/plane sequence was pretty great, up until the moment Lois and Superman's eyes meet. You'd expect there to be some great big MOMENT when they see each other after five years, but......nothing. Another thing about that scene which was pretty hilarious was that Lois is thrown around the airplane fifty or sixty times while it's spinning wildly in the air, and she has NO scratches (not even a Jessica-Lange-in-Postman-Always-Rings-Twice bloody lip??!??!?) and doesn't seem to be injured at all after the plane is on the ground. Seeing Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins, there were several moments in each film that made me want to just jump up and scream "YES" out of sheer excitement. Just to name a few for each movie: Spider-Man 2: saving Aunt May, the train sequence, the reveal to Mary Jane Batman Begins: the "Bruce?" scene, the Batmobile sequences, "I never thanked you." That is what these movies SHOULD be doing for you. Superman had moments that should have been like that, and you'd almost think he would be the ULTIMATE jump out of your chair and cheer character, but there was no emotion behind it. It was just blah-blah-blah action-action-action. I thought the trailers for this were crap, but after hearing Ottman's take on Williams on the Soundtrack.net first listen (the "Saving The World" cue, in particular), I just had to see it. But now that I've seen the film and heard the score, I think Ottman's work was pedestrian at best (I can't remember who said it, but someone said the two styles---Williams and Ottman---were jarring to hear together, and they were right). When the most memorable thing you do in your score is rewrite Brainstorm, you haven't come very far in film composition. I totally admire Ottman's work as a film editor, but there has to be a time where he sits back and thinks to himself, "Holy sh*t, have I written anything since The Usual Suspects that I MYSELF can even remember, let alone listeners of film music?" Sorry the above is not cohesive, I'm just going from the top of my head. I'll come back for the flame war with some better thoughts. Shaun
posted 06-28-2006 01:16 PM PT (US)

Norman McCay Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford: Seeing Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins, there were several moments in each film that made me want to just jump up and scream "YES" out of sheer excitement. Just to name a few for each movie: Spider-Man 2: saving Aunt May, the train sequence, the reveal to Mary Jane Batman Begins: the "Bruce?" scene, the Batmobile sequences, "I never thanked you." That is what these movies SHOULD be doing for you. Superman had moments that should have been like that, and you'd almost think he would be the ULTIMATE jump out of your chair and cheer character, but there was no emotion behind it. It was just blah-blah-blah action-action-action.Shaun While I didn't feel as many of those JUMP moments from those two movies (only 1 from Spider-Man 2 and 3 from Batman), I agree, Superman Returns didn't have any. As much I liked Superman Returns as a whole, there were no moments that screamed out: "Now THAT's Superman." A lot of shots were close, but still no cigar. I guess I'm still digesting the movie, because this movie plotwise made a huge step forward in the Superman mythos, and it's really a lot to take fo any guy who grew up with the status quo. From my perspective, Ottman's score was a disappointment. All these discussions about developing his own themes, I just didn't hear/find them in the context of the film. "Memories" was great, and "Rough Flight" was about what I expected for the first action cue, but the rest of the score fell asleep after that. What I didn't like the most was Ottman's deliberate subversion of Williams' Superman March. Don't get me wrong, I understand his desire to forge his own Superman sound and not to live under Williams' shadow, but almost everytime I begin to hear the March in the film, it would abruptly cut off, switching to non-thematic cues, and I never get a satisfying closure of the March. Even when the March is played, it never feels like it was scored to the right moment. It's either too soon or too late. Just hearing it completely once would've been nice. Even for the obligatory "Flying Away" sccenes he cut off a chunk of the March. It's not that I only want to hear John Williams' score, but that Ottman's take just wasn't as memorable, merely serviceable (like many of you indicated). "Rough Flight" was probably the only Ottman penned action cue that evoked any real sense of thrill and danger. Superman is a superHERO, and that's what I found lacking, HEROIC and triumphant motifs. I'm not looking for brass-blaring hero themes or anything like that, just something to give me that "feel good" sensation. But then Ottman's not entirely to blame, since there also wasn't a single defining action sequence in the film that made me scream out, "Now THAT's what Superman can do!" SPOILER BELOW: Superman lifting the island was almost a JUMP moment for me, but it lacked the physical and emotional impact that the original movie had, best displayed in Superman's reaction (and the subsequent time-reversal flight) after finding Lois dead. [Message edited by Norman McCay on 06-29-2006]
posted 06-29-2006 06:08 PM PT (US)

TimT Standard Userer	The best thing about this movie is the return of a real Main Title sequence. How often do we get to see that these days?
posted 06-29-2006 06:51 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by TimT: The best thing about this movie is the return of a real Main Title sequence. How often do we get to see that these days? True! I wanted to slap the 18 year-old behind me who said about those main titles, "That's such a rip-off of Star Wars!" (in digust). I guess someone didn't have a childhood. I don't know, as for Ottman having any memorable moments, the "Power of the Sun" is VERY well scored and visually stunning, and memorable (for me, at least); the theme is great.
posted 06-29-2006 08:37 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Standard Userer	Is "Power Of The Sun" the Brainstorm thing? Because I can't listen to the album without falling asleep. Shaun
posted 06-30-2006 12:53 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford: Is "Power Of The Sun" the Brainstorm thing? Because I can't listen to the album without falling asleep. Shaun HAHA! No, but I know what you're talking about. Drink a cup of coffee beforehand and you'll be all set. Did you find that the music when the camera pulls away from Luthor on the tropical island at the end sounded almost exactly like the opening bars of "Hedwig's Theme" from Williams's Harry Potter? That was painful.
posted 06-30-2006 11:13 AM PT (US)

JeffBond Standard Userer	I think Ottman's biggest accomplishment is his Lex Luthor theme; I didn't catch it either on first listen but it's actually quite nice and well developed in at least one cue, where it's played against the Superman march rhythms. But I agree about the temp track problems, especially the Brainstorm moments. Ottman has admitted he digs his own grave because he temps Singer's films himself and Singer can apparently be adamant about aping the temp...
posted 06-30-2006 12:18 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	It could be that Ottman just has too much on his plate: editing and writing music for the film; those are two huge tasks to perform and to go from one to the other can't be easy. The Luthor theme is nice, and Jeff is right, the best performance comes from "Saving The World," while the theme gets to flex some stand-alone muscle in "Not Like The Train Set."
posted 06-30-2006 01:52 PM PT (US)

sketch Non-Standard Userer	>> Ottman has admitted he digs his own grave because he temps Singer's films himself and Singer can apparently be adamant about aping the temp...<< While it's convenient to blame Singer for the temp track plagiarism, remember that Ottman's score for Urban Legends 2 blatantly steals from The Sixth Sense, Poltergeist and other scores I can't remember. And Ottman directed that one. So I don't know how much of Superman is Singer's fault.
posted 06-30-2006 05:56 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sketch: So I don't know how much of Superman is Singer's fault. Apparently a lot: Ottman is saying in interviews that Singer was taken by the temp music in place for Superman Returns. So, Ottman sometimes followed that lead with bad consequences. In the end, its both their faults.
posted 06-30-2006 06:11 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Standard Userer	A lot of Ottman's score sounds EXACTLY like John Williams score from the 1978 Superman movie, too. Temp track bullsh*t. I'm really sorry, I just wanted to be the one who did it. Lex's theme is pretty good. Reminds me of Elfman's Spider-Man bad guy mini-themes. Shaun
posted 06-30-2006 08:07 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	On the second viewing, I thought I heard a bit of Elfman-The Hulk influence; anyone know if it was on the temp? Considering now this thread has become "Why John Ottman can't seperate the temp track from his own compositions". NP> Debney's Zathura (**/***)
posted 06-30-2006 10:37 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Standard Userer	There's two instances of HULK in "Not Like The Train Set", and, hello, even that female wail to go along with that 4 note HULK motif. What I want to know is WHERE THE HELL IS JAMES KAREN in this movie? I went to see RETURNS for JAMES KAREN! I saw his shoulder and chin during Mrs. Kent's brief close-up outside the hospital, otherwise Karen only shows up in a wideshot of the Kent farm as his pick-up pulls away. What a rip-off! Ryan
posted 06-30-2006 11:26 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	I've ran into a few like you Ryan that are angered over leaving James Karen on the cutting room floor. But I believe Warners has the intention of putting out an Extended Director's Cut on DVD in the near future (I know of the "exploring Krypton's remains" scene that got left out, any others?). I'm sure you'll see him there.
posted 07-01-2006 12:11 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	The first cut was like 3 and a half hours long, so I'm sure all that stuff will be on the DVD. The Krypton sequence definately will, as Ottman said that he'll be back recording music for that sequence (he'd already written the piece, just hadn't recorded it yet).
posted 07-01-2006 01:50 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	Cars is a much better film than Superman Returns.
posted 07-01-2006 06:09 PM PT (US)

Quill Standard Userer	An exquisitly produced film that has a lot of great elements...it just feels like Singer was too giddy and lost focus on the necessary cohesion. The airplane rescue was the best action moment, the taming of Superman was the most emotional, and (sad as this may be) the credits were actually the most spine-tingling. A couple moments of Ottman's score were good, but the rest was just throw away. Luckily, Singer used William's original work liberally. The climax fell flat (as was mentioned in a previous post), and the Return of King "when will it end" syndrome did not help. Production design and cinematography were excellent, as was the majority of the writing and acting. I think this one will grow in time for me...the flat ending may have tainted my overall opinion of the film. And what the hell? Did Kal Penn have a single line of dialogue? I have feeling some of the inconsistencies will be ironed out in an extended DVD release...but a Superman movie should not have to be 3.5 hours to tell a cohesive and engaging story.
posted 07-01-2006 06:54 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: Cars is a much better film than Superman Returns. Yeah, and also, monkeys chew on crayons to the save the O-Zone.
posted 07-01-2006 08:41 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Standard Userer	I'm tired of this whole, "the extended DVD version will fix all of the flaws" routine. I paid to see the good version the FIRST time, at the theatre. Remember back to a time when the "extended cut" was just padding for television showings? Now it's like the reverse. "Come pay for this inferior product, and if you're not satisfied, try this longer DVD version that we worked a little harder on." Shaun
posted 07-02-2006 12:53 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	Isn't that the reason why you should stop going to movie theatres and just get the DVD when it comes out?
posted 07-02-2006 07:29 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: Cars is a much better film than Superman Returns. Cars was a really hollow and flat experience to me; if anything, it was an overlong Chevron commercial. Although Paul Newman's voice acting was great, I'm really tired of this "celebrity voice acting" crap. Remember The Incredibles? I still think no other animated movie will ever top that (and some superhero movies won't come close either) and do you think Craig T. Nelson, Jason Lee (pre-My Name is Earl) and Cheryl Hines bring asses into cinemas for such an exciting adventure movie? No, but that made oodles of cash and managed to do so by having both engaging characters, an engaging script, and tons of heart - which, IMO, Cars lacked.
posted 07-02-2006 11:04 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	Yet there were more people at Cars in it's 4th weekend than there were for Superman's opening at the the theatre I went to. During Superman I found mysef staring at my watch, during Cars I was engrossed and had a good time. The audience at Superman didn't laugh, didn't applaud or do anything that would make you think it was a good film. Superman is the same as Singer's X-Men films, bland, boring villians and in the end you don't care about the characters. I can't believe that after 5 years Lois would treat Clark as if he were nothing more than a former employee. Gone is the chemistry that existed between them. Even though Lois loves Superman she also cared about Clark. There were only a few times I actually believed Spacey was having fun as Luthor. Shaun is right, Hackan brought a certain charm to the role. Singer's heart was in the right place but sadly he couldn't pull it off. With a $260 million budget I think they'll be lucky if this film gets to $280 million domestically, espcially after only taking in $52 million over the weekend and with POTC2 opening next weekend.
posted 07-02-2006 12:17 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: Yet there were more people at Cars in it's 4th weekend than there were for Superman's opening at the the theatre I went to. During Superman I found mysef staring at my watch, during Cars I was engrossed and had a good time. The audience at Superman didn't laugh, didn't applaud or do anything that would make you think it was a good film. Where do you live, Bumphuck, Idaho? You're only 6 years-old, so it's understandable that you would enjoy Cars more. And how refreshing and boss it is to see that someone actually cares about box office returns; how superficial.
posted 07-02-2006 02:59 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	Well I know when I'm dealing with a 4 year old like yourself (or are you still in diapers? There are times I can't tell) I try to be upfront and honest. I knwo big numbers confuse and terrify you but for $260 million I would expect something better.
posted 07-02-2006 04:00 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Standard Userer	Will there be a SHORTER version of SUPERMAN RETURNS available on DVD? I'd buy that for a dollar. Ryan
posted 07-02-2006 09:10 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: During Superman I found mysef staring at my watch, during Cars I was engrossed and had a good time. The audience at Superman didn't laugh, didn't applaud or do anything that would make you think it was a good film. What a strange, humorless, emotionless audience. After my three viewings (one on IMAX as well) I've had the same experience (all at different theaters). The audience was a great participant. And absolutely no cell phones rung! Imagine that. quote: I can't believe that after 5 years Lois would treat Clark as if he were nothing more than a former employee. Gone is the chemistry that existed between them. Even though Lois loves Superman she also cared about Clark. In Silver Age canon, Lois has a child-like fascination and crush with Superman. As the time goes on, she matures; at this point she does love Superman, yes. You seem to disregard the article in which in the entire story is based around: "Why the World Doesn't Need Superman". Her relationship is with Superman, not Clark. To her, Clark is nothing more - and in this continuity - than a former employee. Clark is that nerdy high school boy who has a crush on the popular girl. Sure, the girl knows that he has that endearing crush. But she pretends it doesn't exist because she's in love with the "football star".
posted 07-03-2006 08:06 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by rkeaveney: Will there be a SHORTER version of SUPERMAN RETURNS available on DVD? I'd buy that for a dollar. Ryan Yes Ryan, Kurt Wimmer's "Autuer Takeover" Cut will run 90 minutes and feature newly discovered score by Klaus Badelt that WB rejected.
posted 07-03-2006 08:11 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by nuts_score: Yes Ryan, Kurt Wimmer's "Autuer Takeover" Cut will run 90 minutes and feature newly discovered score by Klaus Badelt that WB rejected. You mean newly struck 4-track masters!!??!! The WB focus group, consisting of Conan O'Brien, rejected Badelt's score for being "too gay"! Imagine that? nuts_score, it's funny and truly fascinating that you mention Chancellor Hitl... the wild and dangerous Heir Klaus, because score enthusiast Ryan Keaveney is a HUGE Badelt fan; he'll just never admit it. NP: POTC 2 (Hans Zimmer) ***/***
posted 07-03-2006 09:42 AM PT (US)

joan hue Standard Userer	"too gay." Whatever that means is beyond me. NP Nannie McPhee
posted 07-03-2006 01:08 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by joan hue: "too gay." Whatever that means is beyond me. NP Nannie McPhee HAHA! You'll have to ask Conan about that one.
posted 07-03-2006 05:10 PM PT (US)

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