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Author	Topic: So Horner's doing Mel Gibson's APOCALYPTO?

nuts_score Standard Userer	'Tis a shame for not only Lou Goldberg (who will avoid this score like a leper apparently ) but also me. As much as I'm not interested in this film (AT ALL), I still would have liked to get a John Debney score out of it. Granted, his Passion score is not the end-all biblical score, but it has some amazing moments. When the first trailer was released for Gibson's latest torture-fest, I was hoping he'd re-team with Debney (because his Passion score was ridiculously popular, I remeber Debney going on late night shows like Leno to do performances with Lisbeth Scott (maybe she wasn't involved with the live performances, I can't remember) and a small ensemble. You'd think that Gibson could realize talent like Debney when he gives him an incredibly heart-wrenching and powerful score that actually lifted the film somewhat in my eyes (still not, and will never be a fan). Just a rant, I guess. Any other comments and wishes? [Message edited by nuts_score on 05-30-2006]
posted 05-30-2006 10:08 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	For me, when Horner is announced or revealed for any project, I hear the sound of a balloon losing all its air. Ok, it's funny to see the balloon zip-boing-bonk-bap through the room as the air is rushing out, but in a nanosecond, there it is.... lifeless, dead. That's my excitement level. I don't do this because I hate or even barely dislike Horner's current state. I react like this for one reason alone: if he writes something that has even an ounce or two of fresh ideas, I'll be excited!
posted 05-30-2006 10:17 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	And Peter, I hear the bell and anchor clanging too. LOL> I passed on Papparazzi too. Pure junk. J.
posted 05-30-2006 10:27 PM PT (US)

MarkA Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: For me, when Horner is announced or revealed for any project, I hear the sound of a balloon losing all its air. Ok, it's funny to see the balloon zip-boing-bonk-bap through the room as the air is rushing out, but in a nanosecond, there it is.... lifeless, dead. That's my excitement level. I don't do this because I hate or even barely dislike Horner's current state. I react like this for one reason alone: if he writes something that has even an ounce or two of fresh ideas, I'll be excited! I thought The New World was full of fresh ideas, and I believe it to be the best score of 2005, IMHO.
posted 05-31-2006 08:17 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by MarkA: I thought The New World was full of fresh ideas, and I believe it to be the best score of 2005, IMHO. Well, that says a lot about you ... just kidding! But seriously, The New World? Best score of 2005!!??!! Better than Revenge Of The Sith!!??!! Better than Battlestar Galactica!!??!! Better than Lost!!??!! Better than War Of The Worlds!!??!! and I could go on and on and on ... The New World is a good score, for sure, but the action music stinks and a lot of the piano riffs are just slight twists from what we've already heard before in Searching For Bobby Fisher or A Beautiful Mind; and one of Horner's main themes in the score is actually the Genesis Planet theme from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock. I still like the music, but from all the scores that came out last year, The New World isn't at the top of the list, IMO. NP: Serenity (David Newman) ***/*** ps. another GREAT 2005 score!
posted 05-31-2006 10:18 AM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	Well maybe we'll get a score like The New World.... where a total of like 3 cues written by Horner actually appear in the film, all of them pretty much themeless and the rest is classical music. That actually dissapointed me, this was one of my favorite Horner scores.... Anyway, I am very curious about Apocalypto. But still, even as much as I enjoyed the score to The New World (except the Bravehearty/Enemy At The Gatesy parts), every time I hear Horner's doing something, I get the same image that Peter gets. So, if we don't want Horner to score this? Who else would we like? I know nuts_score you said Debney. I think he'd be good. What about Harry Gregson-Williams? Or James Newton Howard? Clayton
posted 05-31-2006 10:31 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	Christopher L. Stone.
posted 05-31-2006 01:32 PM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: < Well, that says a lot about you ... just kidding! But seriously, The New World? Best score of 2005!!??!! Better than Battlestar Galactica!!??!! !?!?! Battlestar Galactica, as in the current series on tv? (A serious question - is someone really saying the "music" in that surpasses what Horner did for The New World!?)
posted 05-31-2006 05:54 PM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by scoreguy16: So, if we don't want Horner to score this? Who else would we like? I know nuts_score you said Debney. I think he'd be good. What about Harry Gregson-Williams? Or James Newton Howard? Clayton No, no and no, thanks. If not Horner then Broughton, Shire, Poledouris, Eidelman, McNeely... someone who can write his own music would be nice.
posted 05-31-2006 05:55 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Southall: !?!?! Battlestar Galactica, as in the current series on tv? (A serious question - is someone really saying the "music" in that surpasses what Horner did for The New World!?) F*CK YES I am!!! BSG has some of the best music out there. Bear McCreary has done an awesome job, that is far and away better than anything�every note�written by Horner for The New World.
posted 05-31-2006 07:50 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Southall: If not Horner then Broughton, Shire, Poledouris, Eidelman, McNeely... someone who can write his own music would be nice. Funny you mentioned Cliff Eidelman, I was actually gonna bring him up. I think he could really do this score. His score for Free Willy 3 (though I've never seen the movie, and I found the CD for a buck) is fantastic. Clayton
posted 05-31-2006 09:09 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by scoreguy16: Funny you mentioned Cliff Eidelman, I was actually gonna bring him up. I think he could really do this score. His score for Free Willy 3 (though I've never seen the movie, and I found the CD for a buck) is fantastic. Clayton Have you heard Cliff Eidelman's music for Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country? It's easily his best score, IMO.
posted 05-31-2006 09:44 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	The New World gave you some idea of how life in Jamestown was like but it will come as no surprise to anyone here that I thought the Horner score to be the same routine, un-special sound he supplies films and therefore of no value. I don't want to be prejudiced and diss a score that hasn't even been penned, recorded, or heard by anyone yet and so I won't. Those who wanted a Debney score for this have forgotten that Gibson & Horner have worked before on Braveheart and so it's not outlandish to think Gibson would want to use Horner again. All I know of Apocalypto is from one trailer and an article in Time Magazine and just from those two sources alone it seems like the film will be pretty heavy handed. But, not having seen it, I can't just diss the film either. For all I know it may be a great film that has a great score. But, given the past Gibson & Horner films, I'm likely to stay away. The truth is there are far too many films I know I'm interested in unequivocably to allow much room for others on my viewing schedule.
posted 05-31-2006 10:21 PM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Lou Goldberg: The New World gave you some idea of how life in Jamestown was like but it will come as no surprise to anyone here that I thought the Horner score to be the same routine, un-special sound he supplies films and therefore of no value. <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Lou, I have to ask, given your well-documented views on Horner - why do you keep buying his scores!? There are a few composers about whom I feel the same as you do regarding Horner - so I don't buy their albums! (I guess you might just tell me that you don't buy his albums, but you do come across his music in the films, though in the case of The New World - given how little Horner's in the film - that doesn't tie up with the comment I quoted above.) [Message edited by Southall on 06-01-2006]
posted 06-01-2006 06:20 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Southall, you still have to explain how The New World is better than Battlestar Galactica.
posted 06-01-2006 08:29 AM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: Southall, you still have to explain how The New World is better than Battlestar Galactica. Ah, I decided that was impossible. I think The New World is full of interestingly-written, beautifully-constructed, well-orchestrated music; and I don't think that about Battlestar Galactica. So to me, it's better. But there's no point trying to prove that someone else's opinion is wrong, since an opinion by definition can't be wrong!
posted 06-01-2006 10:03 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Southall: Ah, I decided that was impossible. I think The New World is full of interestingly-written, beautifully-constructed, well-orchestrated music; and I don't think that about Battlestar Galactica. So to me, it's better. But there's no point trying to prove that someone else's opinion is wrong, since an opinion by definition can't be wrong! I think you're right about opinions: the only problem I have with what you wrote is that yeah maybe New World is well-orchestrated and such, but it's the same old news with Horner; there's a couple good moments, but they're gone so quick. BSG is way more complex than anything New World, and far more original.
posted 06-01-2006 11:15 AM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: BSG is way more complex than anything New World, and far more original. Which just goes to show that what we said about opinions is correct - because I couldn't possibly agree with that sentence any less than I do!
posted 06-01-2006 11:29 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	For what it's worth, I think you're both right. There are some very nice touches in New World, and some oppositely interesting portions of Battlestar Galactica. I don't think either excludes the other being just as interesting. Sean's definitely right about Galactica being more interesting, and original. Horner's score is the same old symphonic scoring he's been doing for years. The cues in BSG are often the exact opposite of what gets done in traditional Hollywood scoring. There's such a wide ranging variety of cues accross the length of the show that Horner probably hasn't written in the past decade. On the other hand, BSG is just a bunch of short ideas. Few of them go anywhere. Over repeated listens, the BSG Season 1 album becomes more listenable as a CD, but overall the small vignettes are just completely disconnected from one another, whereas Horner's New World just flows with a variety of well-crafted ideas which make a very coherent album. In particular, I'd note the way Horner seems to be headed towards the last two cues without fully getting there during the score until the last cues finally arrive as a conclusive ending to the ideas which were previously exposed.
posted 06-01-2006 01:54 PM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Dinko: On the other hand, BSG is just a bunch of short ideas. Few of them go anywhere. But that, to me, is exactly why it isn't interesting, and why I can't understand how you can say how it is definitely more interesting!
posted 06-01-2006 02:04 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	Much as I like Horner's album for THE NEW WORLD, I think dumping the love theme for Mozart and bringing in Wagner too were pretty inspired decisions on Malick's part. Sure lifted the film for me.
posted 06-01-2006 02:37 PM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by franz_conrad: Much as I like Horner's album for THE NEW WORLD, I think dumping the love theme for Mozart and bringing in Wagner too were pretty inspired decisions on Malick's part. Sure lifted the film for me. Must you confuse the issue by mentioning the film?
posted 06-01-2006 05:55 PM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Southall: *But that, to me, is exactly why it isn't interesting, and why I can't understand how you can say how it is definitely* more interesting!** It's the variety, my friend, the variety! The sheer scope of different types of cues featured on the CD makes it a disjointed but relentlessly varied listening experience.
posted 06-01-2006 06:16 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Southall: Must you confuse the issue by mentioning the film? Oh, ok... I'll go and sulk now.
posted 06-01-2006 07:27 PM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by franz_conrad: Oh, ok... I'll go and sulk now.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> I hope it teaches you a lesson! [Message edited by Southall on 06-02-2006]
posted 06-02-2006 02:01 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Dinko, I agree with you completely: the reason I find BSG better is probably because I'm such a huge fan of the show; but, I do think the album flows rather well, where the orchestral cues (both on the show and on CD) don't appear until the end, and it's a good progression up that point�a great example of good idea being carried to fruition is the arc of the "Good Lighter" (early in the score) theme through that cue and onto "Battle On The Asteroid" and finishing heroically with "Wander My Friends." Same with Boomer's theme, up to the point where "Boomer Flees" and the music for her theme gets more and more chaotic, along with her relationship with Helo. I just thought it was kind of funny of Southall to write the score off as "music," as if it were just noise in comparison to James Horner. You mentioned the final cues of The New World, and those are actually my favourite on album (and where he uses the Genesis Planet theme from Star Trek III). I'm not sure why, but maybe it is because they feel more resolved than the rest. In the film I enjoyed Horner's slow / ascending piano theme for Christian Bale and Pocahantas (that was a bright moment) and the brass figure used at the very beginning of the film for the colinisation of America. On CD there are cues that are just plain jarring, though�I'm reffering here to the "Winter Battle" music; it's pretty corny, and i can see why Malick ommitted it from the picture. [Message edited by sean on 06-02-2006]
posted 06-02-2006 03:05 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	South-I didn't buy the Horner score but heard it in the film. And that was bad enough! I will still buy Horner scores every once in a blue moon just to hear what he is up to, to be "au current" as they say. And he sneaks into my collection from time to time even when I don't want him to (like when I buy the Amazing Stories cds for the Delerue & Goldsmith and get a Horner score along with them).
posted 06-04-2006 10:47 PM PT (US)

Scorro Standard Userer	The last 2 DVDs I have bought = "The New World" and "The Name Of The Rose" were both scored by the eternally maligned Mr Horner. I may actually view APOCALYPTO, something I was totally unwilling to do with The Passion. Mel Gibson seems to be getting a bit manic with his film enterprises.
posted 06-05-2006 11:30 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Scorro: I may actually view APOCALYPTO, something I was totally unwilling to do with The Passion. Mel Gibson seems to be getting a bit manic with his film enterprises. Apocalypto seems like a strange film for him to do. It's obvious from watching The Passion Of The Christ and the trailers for Apocalypto that Mel Gibson is insane.
posted 06-05-2006 11:57 AM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	It will be better than Papparazzi at least. LOL. I like Sizemore, but he cant stay out of trouble, like Downey and some others. J.
posted 06-19-2006 09:40 PM PT (US)

gumdrops1 Standard Userer	With everyone BASHING Horner amongst the fanboy community, who buys his albums? The rest of the world?
posted 06-20-2006 10:40 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	I showed my support only after I saw both The New World and The Chumscrubber; two of Horner's best since . . . well, a long time.
posted 06-20-2006 06:35 PM PT (US)

joan hue Standard Userer	Am I the only one who thinks this movie looks very strange? Maybe it will be great. I don't know. And will there be subtitles like in Passion of the Christ? NP Hannie Caulder
posted 06-20-2006 07:09 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by joan hue: Am I the only one who thinks this movie looks very strange? Maybe it will be great. I don't know. And will there be subtitles like in Passion of the Christ? NP Hannie Caulder No Joan, my love, you're not the only one. It looks strange; and there is sure to be plenty of subtitles and bloodletting. Two great combinations!
posted 06-20-2006 08:45 PM PT (US)

joan hue Standard Userer	Blood baths? Yep! NP Fluke
posted 06-20-2006 09:10 PM PT (US)

Mike Skerritt Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: if he writes something that has even an ounce or two of fresh ideas, I'll be excited! You should be excited at least about THE CHUMSCRUBBER, which IMHO is Horner's freshest score in years. And, refreshingly, it doesn't overstay its welcome on album.
posted 06-21-2006 11:33 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mike Skerritt: You should be excited at least about THE CHUMSCRUBBER, which IMHO is Horner's freshest score in years. And, refreshingly, it doesn't overstay its welcome on album. Alas, someone speaks the truth!
posted 06-21-2006 02:53 PM PT (US)

Mike Skerritt Non-Standard Userer	I calls it likes I sees it.
posted 06-21-2006 03:28 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Artwork and pre-order: http://www.moviemusic.com/soundtrack/apocalypto Solo vocals by a Fateh Ali Khan!
posted 11-10-2006 10:55 PM PT (US)

Crono/Kyp Standard Userer	That's Four Feathers guy right? --Brian
posted 11-11-2006 12:16 AM PT (US)

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