I was a wee bit disappointed to hear that as MK has always been my favourite composer, but hey, we don't know all the circumstances - time, etc. If anyone wants to complain about ghostwriters, all I have to say is...

While this is nothing particularly new in film scoring, I think the MV approach was the first to really start acknowledging the "additional music" credit for a team.

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Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
Of course, now that Kamen is dead, he can be a literal ghostwriter, but about these rumors, tell us more, what have you heard & from where. Because it's a very common slam to accuse a composer of relying on his/her "orchestrators" or unknown others and a pretty basic practice to call in other people at crunch time (which isn't necessarily a huge moral crime even if only one composer's name ultimately goes on the credits). So before we go condemning the guy or putting him on trial, we should have a much better idea of how true the rumors are and to what extent the practice was used if at all.

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I don't think it's so important to "out" a list of ghostwriters, or to condemn Kamen for using them. It happens all the time, and unless one or more among them is distraught and wants recognition and royalties, I don't think it quite matters. Usually the "ghostwriter" is doing it for experience and/or to assist, and is acutely aware that without accepting credit they give up all that goes with it.

Steve, I am with you on the Zimmer point. He's gone quite far, but not essentially for his composing talents!

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Originally posted by franz_conrad:
I even recently heard interesting references to James Horner's ghostwriters - students of his that he basically got to write big chunks of his scores. I assumed the person in question had mistaken Horner and Zimmer, but on closer questioning they clearly knew who they were talking about.

Anyone heard anything about this before?

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Originally posted by HadrianD:
I could understand now how he could write the score to Troy in such a short time. He might have gotten his ghostwriters to take passages from his old scores and changes it to fit the movie.....??

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Originally posted by franz_conrad:
students of his

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Ghostwriting does seem like an apprenticeship job though I suppose one could make a whole career out of lurking behind the scenes and being paid under the table as it were.

The guy who ghostwrote for Joe DeLuca on a lot his TV stuff didn't like his position and "outed" himself. Whether he's working for credit now as a result, I do not know.

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Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
Lawrence of Arabia very likely has cues written by Gerard Schurmann in it.

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Originally posted by Dinko:
Wait, wait, wait... who in their right mind would study with Horner?

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
They might have been referring to Schumann, Prokofiev and the others...

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:giggles:

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Originally posted by Steve Hughes:
Also, a composer named James Brett told me Michael hardly wrote anything on his final score, Back To Gaya - it was almost completely written by ghostwriters as he was too ill at the time.

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Some info about this score from this site http://www.filmscorecenter.de/backtogaya_analysis.htm

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Directors Tappe and Krawinkel are both devoted fans of composer Michael Kamen. Thanks to their British co-producer Jeremy Thomas, they were able to contact Kamen who became interested in the project and wanted to view a work-print of the picture which was heavily temp-tracked with existing music. Kamen reportedly hated what was used but the directors changed the temp-track by using only pieces composed by Kamen who was naturally impressed with that little favour and agreed to compose the score. Disaster stroke when the composer suddenly died of a heart attack in November 2003 which put the entire project in jeopardy because he was not able to finish the score. Based on sketches that Kamen finished before his death, his orchestrators and arrangers Robert Elhai, Brad Warnaar, Julian Kershaw, Jeff Toyne, Rubert Christie, Jonathan Sacks, Blake Neely and Ian MacPhearson were called in to finish the score while Ilan Eshkeri provided additional music where necessary. Then, in January 2004, the finished music was recorded at Abbey Road Studios performed by the London Metropolitan Orchestra under the baton of Andy Brown. Those involved with the music agreed that Kamen's last work was also one of his finest efforts and the music was performed live at the film's premiere in Hannover as a special tribute to the late composer who passed away way too early. Oddly, his outstanding music for Back To Gaya remains entirely unreleased to this day and date.

Even though Michael Kamen's orchestrators had to finish the score, you will not notice that at all which indicates that Kamen probably finished a good chunk of material before the tragic twist of events in November 2003. His musical voice, trademarks and craftsmanship are shining through every single note of music, from the memorable opening sky-high main theme (featured in the suite - see below) with its emphasis on horns that will bring back memories of Kamen's theme for Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves (1994) to even the smallest bits of underscore. Words like 'rousing' and 'thrilling' can barely give a vague idea of how brilliant the action-adventure parts of this score are and this music is one of the rare occasions where a comparison to John Williams' is probably fully appropriate. Another horn-driven secondary flying-theme follows when the main characters Boo and Zino take flight to Gaya-city. This theme is just as excellent as the main theme and develops into a trhilling orchestral ride for the aerial journey with a pompous fanfare finale as Gaya-City its magic stone, the Dalamite, appears (featured in the suite - see below).

A big race in best Star Wars fashion follows in the film with a beautiful build-up to the first statement of the score's heroic theme for Zino. As the race begins and Zino takes off, Kamen thrills us into an amazing action passage that changes between dark pounding tones for the evil Snurks, tension-building frenetic strings and broad symphonic fanfares spiced with an incredible debth in orchestration. The entire race-cue alone makes this score a highlight in Kamen's career and functions as a nice summary of themes. A short statement of the romantic theme for princess Alanta is also included and the heroic theme receives a full outburst as Boo and Zino turbo boost to the pole position. A Creepy and dark motif accompanies the introduction of the evil professor N. Icely who is planning to destroy the series by stealing the Dalamite. The music rises to a dark apocalyptic scale as the professor activates his transportation device to rob the stone and menacing, pounding timpani follows our main characters as they are sucked through the dimension gate into our world.

While Boo and Zino arrive at a backyard, the Snurks arrive in a little boy's room who is having fun while hunting the bad gnomes with a baseball bat and Kamen responds to the chase with some quirky gnomish chase music. All that great musical material already comes within the first 20 minutes into the picture which shows how rich the score is. The flying-theme returns as Boo and Zino enter a house that is suddenly being demolished and both have to escape the giant demolition ball. Alanta arrived in a toy store and is playing around and raving on being a big hero which is accompanied some gentle and elegant waltzy material based on the romantic theme which develops into uplifting heroic tones with a little mickey-mousing as Alanta performs a wire-stunt (featured in the suite - see below). As Boo and Zino are trying to rescue Alanta from nasty rats in the sewers, a heroic variation on Alanta's romantic theme follows as she fights the rats with Kung-Fu. Screaming brass and a dark statement of the heroic theme suddenly bursts out when they meet a hungry crocodile in the sewers. The action motives from the race are powerfully reprised for the big finale fight between the professor and the heroes before a bright reprise of the Gaya-City material is featured when the heroes are back in gaya.

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In most of Kamen's scores including Robin Hood, there isnt all that much music and he seems to be a man, who in most cases, does not use a theme most of the time.