MovieMusic.com Message Boards: James Newton Howard replaces Howard Shore on King Kong!

Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks

James Newton Howard replaces Howard Shore on King Kong! (Page 2)

Archive of old forum. No more postings.

Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.

This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2

Author	Topic: James Newton Howard replaces Howard Shore on King Kong!

Camillu Standard Userer	Something I thought of this morning - better head over to KongisKing.net and download that Post-Production Diary #13 with Shore conducting, becuase I doubt we'll be seeing that on the DVD
posted 10-16-2005 05:29 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	So much for Jackson's power in the industry.
posted 10-16-2005 09:54 AM PT (US)

shrubber Standard Userer	Oh dear. Both decisions (about the score and the ape's 'new look') are indeed highly suspect, and do not bode well for the film. I'm with PeterK and Lou on this - the pic must have been previewed by the Universal peeps and somehow it tanked. Personally I find it hard to believe that it could be all that bad, since it's so obviously a labour of love for PJ. But even if the execs are correct and the end product truly is appalling, it begs the question: why didn't the studio intervene earlier? Is Universal in desperate need of a big hit and are the suits therefore walking on eggs?
posted 10-16-2005 10:29 AM PT (US)

zimmerito Standard Userer	Yes...i don't understand Why the studio or the director didn't change the composer earlier? always this things happen with so little weeks before release date.
posted 10-16-2005 10:57 AM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Standard Userer	I will add my two cents worth on this now. I read all these and some were very funny and some made good sense. It seems to me that the movie may not be any good and the music Howard S wrote was probably not what Jackson expected. Then, that lame statement he made also made me chuckle. A lot of false pandering in there. The other posts on Howard and his action cues being more what he wanted were interesting and the one on the static action music of Shore is interesting too. Very perceptive. That could be some of the reasons for this. I like Shore a lot but much of his music is more subtle. I really liked the action cue in History of Violence for the run to the house. EXC. I think I will pass on King Kong but may give a listen to both scores if released. J.
posted 10-16-2005 12:00 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	Words from someone who saw the film in preview were: "It didn't look too bad." I don't know what to make of that staement. It certainly isn't filled with enthusiasm but isn't a diss either. But then it comes from an older guy who is in the biz and not a fanboy. In any case, all I can think of is poor JNH having to write music for 12 hours a day for the next few weeks with all of this pressure on his back. All the speculation over this event is interesting but until the film arrives, until we hear the scores, and until we get The True Gen on what happened, it's simply guessing. It's just that if the film is good, it would be better to have a good score with it. Not that JNH can't pull a rabbit out of the hat but maybe Shore's score didn't really need replacing to start with. You know, I want the best art we can get. My guess is that Shore and Jackson got along fine and that the suits just don't want a retro-sounding score that has any noticeable personality to it. However, that's a point-of-view based on all the horror stories I've heard over the years that have made me so knee-jerk cynical in the first place. It's also very possible that Shore and Jackson had differences just as the press release says and it took them this long into the scoring/recording process to figure this out. But I'm inclined to see it as the sign of a troubled production rather than otherwise.
posted 10-16-2005 02:14 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Standard Userer	Of course, "troubled production" could mean that the movie is great and the execs/test audiences aren't. Gilliam constantly seems to have trouble with studios, and not because his films are bad. And Kong doesn't seem to be something modern audiences are too keen on, after all. Most people probably expect an action movie, others (I've witnessed it several times) complain about dinosaurs on the island. I don't think the overall audience knows the 1933 movie well, and I don't think they're expecting a film primarily focused on a love story between a woman and a giant ape. So if the production is troubled, I'd say it's likely that the movie was fine, but due to poor reactions it gets major changes at the last minute, resulting in a generic movie without much personality. In this case, I hope PJ has enough power to do a decent SE DVD.
posted 10-16-2005 03:17 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	Yes Marian, that's another way of looking at it I hadn't considered. The film itself is set in the 30s, is a re-make of a 30s film, and may be less known to the tikes than I assume. It may be a good film and a good re-make of Kong, but not exciting to a modern audience: where are the explosions, where are the aliens, the car chases & crashes, the hipsters from the hood, and the ballet of bullets flying from machine guns, etc., etc. The previews go bad, the score gets changed to sound more modern, the film gets squeezed to come off a bit more exciting, some of the critics who have some film viewing under their belt might say Thumbs Up if the damage isn't too heavy, the audience will show up for the opening, and then it'll die off in 2 weekends. But you know, when I heard that Jackson wanted to re-make King Kong, my initial reaction wasn't positive. Even if it's a good film, it's just not one I'm all that interested in.
posted 10-16-2005 11:31 PM PT (US)

Quill Standard Userer	1. Replacing Short is a massive disappointment. 2. My grief has been lessened by the fact that Howard is probably reveling in the knowledge the the film music fan base has rendered judgment that the replacement implies this film will stink to high heaven. Keep grasping folks and keep on blaming the man! I think Peter Jackson and JNH have earned a little more faith my jaded fanatics.
posted 10-17-2005 10:08 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	Well, I'm sure no one is feeling upbeat after this sort of thing. You write a score and record it and it doesn't make the movie--that can't feel good. And even if you like the film and need the job and turn out a solid score, it must feel bad to have to walk in as the replacement composer. But given how prevalent these rejections have been, I'm sure composers have had to become thick-skinned about both having scores rejected and stepping in to write a replacement after someone else has been dumped. I mean I guess it's just a part of the business today: --"Joe is out Sid and we need the score in 2 weeks." --"Was Joe's score really that bad?" --"Not if they play it at Carnegie Hall." --"OK, Mack, I get the picture. I'll put the music paper on the piano as soon as you FedEx me the temp track." As an aside, I was listening to NPR on Sunday night and they had "a jingle composer" on one of their talk shows discussing what he does. He said he typically gets 3 days to write music for commercials. True it's not 90 minutes of music but it has to be catchy enough to sustain a lot of airplay. And I'm sure corporate sponsors are as picky and mettlesome as Hollywood executives. What's more the jingle composer is anonymous and seems more constrained than even film composers. I'd hope it pays well because otherwise it seems pretty thankless. And I don't know whether to be impressed or cry over that turn-around time. [Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 10-18-2005]
posted 10-18-2005 12:47 AM PT (US)

Scorro Standard Userer	"the static action music of Shore" I don't quite understand what this means. The Two Towers is a great listening experience, both with the movie and on its own.
posted 10-18-2005 04:27 PM PT (US)

moviescore Standard Userer	Of course one can only speculate, but one thing that we now for sure is that Howard Shore's orchestrations are always pretty dense and quite heavy. One theory is that the producers felt that Shore's score was too dark, dense and serious. Maybe they want a somewhat lighter touch. Another theory is that they have a tempo problem. That is why George Fenton's score for Interview with the Vampire was replaced back in 1994. Elliot Goldenthal's main mission was to speed things up and add rhythm and pulse to the picture. Maybe the situation on King Kong is similar. In King Kong we know that the initial approach was to make a homage to the style of the 1930s. Howard did this in The Aviator too, but obviously this would be in a different way: "Our movie of Kong is based on the original 1933 film and that's the language that we will use." That's what Howard said in my interview with him ten months ago (http://www.musicfromthemovies.com/sotw.asp?ID=28)... Perhaps this approach just doesn't work too well with the modern, non-retroish take on the special effects in the film? mikael @�mftm
posted 10-19-2005 04:19 AM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Standard Userer	Mikael--Yes, I've been looking at this from a wider, more universal (excuse the pun) perspective. As in 'What does the current common practice of score rejections really point to'. It may simply come down to very specific factors with the score: it may be too heavy, too static, wrong for the pacing, etc. And despite all our guesses to the contrary, it's very possible that Jackson had a personal hand in junking the score. He may have liked it enough to say go and then found the film wasn't working as well against the actual music. However, because only a part of the score was recorded, that may indicate something else entirely. Until someone other than the Official Press Release speaks out on this, it's all a guess.
posted 10-19-2005 11:43 AM PT (US)

Gae Standard Userer	I think what we can all agree about here is that this whole situation is total proof of the all-encompassing power of film music and how it deeply affects the onscreen activities. As film score fans we all already know this. Put one piece of music to a scene and the scene has a dimension that another piece of music just would not give it. It may be that Shore's music was so effective in capturing "the language" of the original that it actually detracted from the modern quality of the film and gave the film too much of an "old" feel which was not wanted by the producers. Howard Shore may have done his job too well. All of this is just idle speculation though. Gae [Message edited by Gae on 10-19-2005]
posted 10-19-2005 04:05 PM PT (US)

Scorro Standard Userer	I believe the original is much more than "a film primarily focused on a love story between a woman and a giant ape". Although Fay Wray was great in the 1933 movie, her primary purpose is to be a catalyst (motivation) that causes/forces Kong (and the camera team) to action. Wrestling the T-Rex, shaking the log, beating the gate down, derailing the train, climbing the building, swatting the planes, etc, etc. are all action packed sequences that dominate the screenplay. True, they are setup by infatuation... but there is precious little time spent on 'writing love letters' (besides the erotic undressing scene at the cave). If Jackson has been true to the original story (and I believe he has), then the remake should be a blast. I expect that at a minimum the modern recreation of the 'foggy lost world island' will be quite good. Hopefully the cast can carry the momentum along. JNH is as good a choice as anyone for a last minute re-scoring. (his Wyatt Earp score is a masterpiece)
posted 10-19-2005 06:22 PM PT (US)

Kevin Standard Userer	And now JNH has ever more work to do, as it was reported that the film is going to be three hours long now!!! I'm not making this up. Read it for yourself! Kevin
posted 10-27-2005 08:56 AM PT (US)

Bodhizefa Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Kevin: And now JNH has ever more work to do, as it was reported that the film is going to be three hours long now!!! I'm not making this up. Read it for yourself! Kevin Despite what the NY Times and the LA Times are reporting, the film has been slated to have a 3+ hour runtime for the last 12 weeks.
posted 10-27-2005 02:20 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Kevin: And now JNH has ever more work to do, as it was reported that the film is going to be three hours long now!!! I'm not making this up. Read it for yourself! Kevin What? Three plus hours?! Didn't the original and De Laurentiis' remake hit the 90 minute mark? Hopefully Kong isn't stuck with a Return of the King ending in which he says goodbye through three false endings for the final 45 minutes. I really hope this movie overcomes all of my running doubts. I have become accustomed to the idea of JNH scoring, but there is still a lot going against this one.
posted 10-27-2005 06:12 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	The original 1933 version ran about 1hr 45min and was perfect, the 1976 remake ran about 2hr 10min and took away all of the dinosaurs and replaced them with a giant muppet snake and many other boring scenes that slowed that movie down. Since Peter Jackson's version supposed to be a closer remake of the 1933 version I'm kinda wondering what in gods name could he have come up with by adding another hr and 20 mins. Is Denham going to find Son Of Kong on Skull Island and we get 2 movies for the price of one?
posted 10-28-2005 08:44 AM PT (US)

moviescore Standard Userer	The cover art for the CD from Decca has been revealed! http://moviescore.blogspot.com/2005/10/king-kong-cover-art.html http://www.iclassics.com/content/assets/selection/65/64358E.jpg mikael
posted 10-28-2005 10:24 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by moviescore: The cover art for the CD from Decca has been revealed! http://moviescore.blogspot.com/2005/10/king-kong-cover-art.html http://www.iclassics.com/content/assets/selection/65/64358E.jpg mikael Eh, I'm on the fence. Thanks anyways Mikael.
posted 10-28-2005 10:32 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	Official Teaser Poster: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21689
posted 10-28-2005 10:46 PM PT (US)

Gae Standard Userer	There are some screengrabs of Kong on the Empire State building from the new trailer over at Kong is King.net at the mo. I took the liberty of putting them together in a little animation along to some of Steiner's closing music. You can download it Here Scroll down and choose FREE account. Wait for the ticker to count down at the foot of page and then the file will appear. Gae
posted 10-30-2005 09:42 AM PT (US)

Howard L Standard Userer	It may be that Shore's music was so effective in capturing "the language" of the original that it actually detracted from the modern quality of the film and gave the film too much of an "old" feel which was not wanted by the producers. Yeah, I've been leaning this way what with the dismissal's timing factor and the by-all-accounts ongoing Jackson/Shore working relationship. There's nothing wrong with a director striving to balance artistic leanings with commercial needs but we know who loses when the backers flex the moolah muscles... You know, I want the best art we can get. ...us. [Message edited by Howard L on 10-31-2005]
posted 10-31-2005 12:36 PM PT (US)

moviescore Standard Userer	>>> Replacing Howard Shore was "a horrible thing", but he "didn't click". <<< According to Empire, this is what Peter Jackson recently said about the rejection of Howard Shore's King Kong score... http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/story.asp?NID=17379 mikael @�mftm
posted 11-01-2005 08:41 AM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by moviescore: >>> Replacing Howard Shore was "a horrible thing", but he "didn't click". <<< According to Empire, this is what Peter Jackson recently said about the rejection of Howard Shore's King Kong score... http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/story.asp?NID=17379 mikael @�mftm Hmmmmm . . . Anyways, I got a Playstation 2 demo disc yesterday and was able to play through two sections of the movie's official game: one sequence with Jack (a bit of a first person shooter/survival) and the other playing as Kong (the BEST section, really felt epic and beating up T-Rexes and raptors is in a class of it's own). The menu screen music, whoever it was written by was quite good. It sounded like a synth demo and a haunting female vocal rounded it out. The music during the actual game play was more of the same synth cue but sped up and played at different tempos for the action beats. If the movie can manage to be as thrilling as the demo I played we might be in luck.
posted 11-01-2005 01:37 PM PT (US)

Howard L Standard Userer	Now isn't that interesting. Let's just say, oh, that (1)certain powers, both artistic and commercial, and some even artistic/commercial, have a direct financial stake in the video game. And let's also say, hmmmmmm, (2)what if Shore's music doesn't come close to the delightfully funky ambiance of what this other crew did for the video game. Why not gin things up a bit for the movie sales (AND video game sales, oh what a great tie-in!) and dump Shore's music and get something close to what "sounded like a synth demo and a haunting female vocal" that "rounded it out." And hey, "the music during the actual game play was more of the same synth cue but sped up and played at different tempos for the action beats." MAN, "if the movie can manage to be as thrilling as the demo I played we might be in luck." Whether we say it or not, (2) is admittedly sheer speculation. However, whether we say it or not, (1) is absolutely true. And with (1) being established fact and not speculation...well, is not (1) usually the basis of potential conflict$ of intere$t? My thanks to the previous respondent for inspiring a li'l added fuel to the speculative flames. [Message edited by Howard L on 11-01-2005]
posted 11-01-2005 09:29 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Howard L: Now isn't that interesting. Let's just say, oh, that [b](1)certain powers, both artistic and commercial, and some even artistic/commercial, have a direct financial stake in the video game. And let's also say, hmmmmmm, (2)what if Shore's music doesn't come close to the delightfully funky ambiance of what this other crew did for the video game. Why not gin things up a bit for the movie sales (AND video game sales, oh what a great tie-in!) and dump Shore's music and get something close to what "sounded like a synth demo and a haunting female vocal" that "rounded it out." And hey, "the music during the actual game play was more of the same synth cue but sped up and played at different tempos for the action beats." MAN, "if the movie can manage to be as thrilling as the demo I played we might be in luck." Whether we say it or not, (2) is admittedly sheer speculation. However, whether we say it or not, (1) is absolutely true. And with (1) being established fact and not speculation...well, is not (1) usually the basis of potential conflict$ of intere$t? My thanks to the previous respondent for inspiring a li'l added fuel to the speculative flames. [Message edited by Howard L on 11-01-2005][/B] Heh, well I re-acted a bit too soon on those assumptions of the music being Shore's in the demo. It turns out that Chance Thomas is scoring the game and much of the music can be heard on kongisking.net.
posted 11-02-2005 12:45 PM PT (US)

nuts_score Standard Userer	[url]http://movies.apple.com/movies/universal/king_kong/king_kong-tlr_h480.mov [/url] Direct link to the new trailer (QuickTime needed). Took me all freaking night to download (dial-up), but damn if this thing isn't looking better. [Message edited by nuts_score on 11-04-2005] [Message edited by nuts_score on 11-04-2005]
posted 11-04-2005 12:07 AM PT (US)

Old Infopop Software by UBB