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      A film's success and its score . . .

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    Topic:   A film's success and its score . . .

     nuts_score
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    Okay, as many of you know, I just bought a pair of Bose Triport headphones and have been recently been flipping through my favorite composer's scores and I settled upon the late Jerry Goldsmith about two days ago. The first album I gave a run was his phenominal (and oh-so underrated) score for "The Shadow", starring Alec Baldwin. By the way, I'm quite a fan of the film and was interested in what you guys thought of it. Back to topic; the film's main theme is quite memorable and if you catch yourself humming something that doesn't quite strike you as familiar within a few seconds, it's probably a Goldsmith theme. What do you think about film score's impact on the film itself and how memorable that film turns out to be; whether it be box office returns or cult affection. If you really think about some of our (America, but that can't be discounting foreign films) greatest films has some of the most revered scores in history: Williams' "Star Wars", "Jaws", "Superman", "Close Encounters"; Jarre's "Doctor Zhivago"; Barry's "James Bond"; Rota's "The Godfather"; Morricone's "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly"; Hermann's "Vertigo", "Psycho"; Elfman's "Batman", "Edward Scissorhands"; Shore's "The Silence of the Lamb", "Lord of the Rings". If your like me, you have all of the albums amdist your collection and they are something of a treasure. But if you look deeper in your collection, you will see more scores of films that you adore the music (as do many others) but sometimes the film wasn't as successful as the aforementioned. Do you think that a memorable underscore and theme has any impact to the film itself? If you look at (two examples here) Jerry Goldsmith's filmograpy you will see a slew of not that memorable or even terrible motion pictures but I know that you have the scores and you give them more listenings than James Horner could ever hope for "Titanic" listenings; the same can be said about fairly new-on-the-scene Brian Tyler. I honestly have not heard one thing I did not like by the man yet he always gets stuck with the bottom of the barrel films like "Paparazzi" or "Godsend". What do you all think about the score's impact; does it really matter to the general movie-going public who buy their DVDs in full-screen, pan and scan ratio? I know that some of you have thought about this once or twice.

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    posted 08-28-2005 10:06 PM PT (US)     

     Lancelot
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    Aside from the obvious mentions, I think Pirates of the Caribbean was aided a great deal by its score, although I'm sure many disillusioned teenagers were disappointed when they realized their attention span couldn't enjoy a film-score out of context....

    When a score is sucessful, it's due in great part to non-score fans, who are trying to re-live some moment of beauty from the film itself. Ocassionally, you get the break-away pop theme, like Chariots of Fire, or St. Elmo's Fire which show up on easy listening stations to this day.

    Other times, you get the heavily thematic syrupy-themed albums, like Somewhere in Time and Titanic, which Non-soundtrack fans purchase for some unclear reason they can identify themselves, except that "it sounds romantic."

    And then you get the people who like the neo-classical/new-age/celtic/world/epic sound, (which is a large and sometimes unclear grouping in and of itself), but these are typically non-score fans who find albums like Conan the Barbarian and Last of the Mohicans a fantastic listen--also for reasons they can't quite define.

    Now, these movies enjoyed some kind of popularity, which accounts for the reason that their music is still heard today. Barring those particular gems that film-music fans treasure, I cannot think of a popular score that came from a non- or even moderately popular/sucessful movie. Perhaps there is one out there....

    But to the point, I do think a film's success is aided by its' score. I think the effect is subliminal to most, however.

    [Message edited by Lancelot on 08-28-2005]

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    posted 08-28-2005 11:11 PM PT (US)     

     Camillu
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Lancelot:

    Other times, you get the heavily thematic syrupy-themed albums, like Somewhere in Time and Titanic, which Non-soundtrack fans purchase for some unclear reason they can identify themselves, except that "it sounds romantic."


    lol


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    posted 08-29-2005 01:36 AM PT (US)     

     moviescore
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    I have many examples of films where a great score made my whole cinematic experience a lot better. In fact, when I used to review films professionally I had some trouble being able to see when a film was *a lot* worse than its score - I loved the music and couldn't care less about all of the plot holes and technical flaws. One example is "Shining Through" which has a fantastic, super-romantic and very dramatic score by Michael Kamen. I just love that score, and therefore I love the film, but everyone says it's rubbish so I guess it is!

    mikael @ mftm

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    posted 08-29-2005 02:35 AM PT (US)     

     Lancelot
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    "Everyone" can be a lousy judge, yeah?

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    posted 08-29-2005 07:19 AM PT (US)     

     tjguitar
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    quote:
    Aside from the obvious mentions, I think Pirates of the Caribbean was aided a great deal by its score, although I'm sure many disillusioned teenagers were disappointed when they realized their attention span couldn't enjoy a film-score out of context....

    Actually quite the opposite, the POTC score is quite popular among, and I think it has to do with the fact that the movie is so popular. Its one of the few score CDs that I've seen quite a bit of my my non-film-score friends purchase, and enjoy. People liked it so much that they convinced the band director to perform it as the Band's Field Show a couple of years ago

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    posted 08-29-2005 05:34 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    A film's success and its score? I'd say that the relationship is comparatively small, certainly for the general moviegoing public (us know-alls are another world, and a tiny percentage).

    Those of you who live in non-English speaking countries will have no doubt seen many classic films on TV dubbed into the local language (that's another subject for discussion) where the music score has been completely changed. The examples are too numerous to mention, but it's amazing (or perhaps not) how most people don't see the difference. Boris Karloff is still THE MUMMY, even when he's speaking Spanish and is backed by Franz Reizenstein's score for the Hammer remake.

    In many cases (JAWS, PSYCHO, THE OMEN - but not only in the horror genre, it's just that these are closest to my heart), the music is part of our collective memory, and the original scores do go a long way in anchoring the movies in our subconscious, but if those particular films never had those particular scores to start with I don't think their place in movie history would have been terribly different. A reduced bunch of us would like some films a lot less or a lot more, but that's probably about it.

    What about generally accepted great films with "nondescript" scores. Who remembers Max Steiner's score for THE BIG SLEEP? Would it have been more popular, and even more highly regarded, with a stunning Bernard Herrmann score? Perhaps only by us here on the Board.

    I obviously don't like film music at all. Crikey, more than thirty years of self-deception!

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    posted 09-01-2005 03:26 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Ahem, but THE BIG SLEEP is one of the few Steiner scores I really love (many bore me but that one is awesome!). And the film is pretty near being a masterpiece too.

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    posted 09-03-2005 03:49 AM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    I KNEW someone would love Steiner's BIG SLEEP! Lou will have to think now of a nondescript score for a classic film, then tell us if he thinks the film's reputation and/or success would be that much different with better music.

    Good game! You can all join in.

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    posted 09-03-2005 09:35 AM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    We can play this game but it's hard to say where "What If?..." conjecture will get us.

    Well to begin with we can take a film with the most nondescript score there is, something like THE BIRDS, which doesn't really have a score, and wonder if it would be more effective with one by Herrmann. Certainly TORN CURTAIN would've been more tense with a Herrmann score over the Addison one.

    But chances are that real classics wouldn't be too greatly imporoved by different music. When a film is good to begin with music can often hurt it instead of help. But there are the two classic examples of THE LOST WEEKEND which a preview audience laughed at until Rozsa scored the laughable scenes & made them more frightening and HIGH NOON which didn't thrill preview audiences until Tiomkin was added to the mix. These are examples of good scores saving pictures so I'm sure there are classics with blah music that probably could be stronger with better scores. But thinking of great films that have blah scores isn't a chore I want to go through just now.

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    posted 09-03-2005 10:20 PM PT (US)     
     

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