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      The Oral Tradition

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    Topic:   The Oral Tradition

     Lou Goldberg
     Click Here to Email Lou Goldberg
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    After I was swapping film music stories with another aficianado, I spent some time thinking about how information about film history circulates.

    For instance, take Stephen Smith's biography of Bernard Herrmann. A lot of it is just made up of anecdotes, stories that people recalled or that had been told them by another. And it isn't complete. I've heard a lot of additional stories about Herrmann that didn't make the book.

    Here at this and other message boards information circulates in the same way. Somewhere someone sees or is told a story about a score or composer. Perhaps there is some direct research. Then bit by bit the stories are related, verified, added onto, doubted, speculated about, all in the hopes of getting some idea of what happened.

    I picked up the Green Mansions soundtrack. The liner notes talk about how Kaper wasn't thrilled to adapt Villa-Lobos. It also went into depth about Villa-Lobos' trip to the US and other details about the production and scoring.

    Film music history, which in a sense means the biographies of the composers, the stories behind the scores of specific productions, and an overall history of styles and approaches, doesn't seem to have been concretized yet into a single library. Rather, it seems to be scattered in liner notes, personal papers, interviews, many different books and documentaries, rarely-seen studio files, and the memories of lots of different film music fans. And it's also through discussion that the information seems to circulate. An issue of Film Score Monthly or an interview at some website devoted to film music may be the concrete source but then the information flows from there into an oral bank of stories that people discuss or blog about.

    What I wonder about is how much distortion and loss is part of the process. Whether the oral dissemination of info is richer than that that people have tried to collect in writing or just a shadowy copycat of what is already solidly written about elsewhere. And just what are the key circulating myths. What stories about films and composers are the ones normally brought up to the people who start to become fans of this music.

    Just something to think about.........

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    posted 06-29-2005 02:50 AM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Just to illustrate my point, go read the topic on the domestic Summer of '42 cd. Filmfactsman has an anecdote from Johnny Mandel, one he got straight from the source, that Mandel thought the Oscar went to the Picasso Summer score as much as the Summer of '42 theme because the album was sent as a promo to Academy members. It's just this kind of tale that isn't written down anywhere (or is in some interview which is just as difficult to resurrect as if it didn't exist--and if you were doing research on Michel Legrand what would lead you to look at some interview with Johnny Mandel?) that circulates on message boards and becomes another brick in the construction of film history knowledge. But it also points to how much is lost or hard it is to acquire a complete history. People writing film history or interviewing technicians don't always ask the right questions to illicit the right stories. Sometimes its a bad day for the person being interviewed and I'm sure a lot of guys refuse to make public their opinions or bad experiences. Memoirs fill us in on somethings but spin or elude other things.

    This brings me back to an idea that was circulated here a while ago and which I wonder about. Maybe we're overdue for a big get-together. We need a big conference, we need the Film Music Society to sponsor a week long convention of composers, guys from record and on-line store companies (Varese, Intrada, FSM, etc.), Bill Stromberg & John Morgan, John Waxman, Peter K (god forbid), critics, researchers, fans, dealers, etc. etc. One big film music blow out where there is lots of talk and tales and someone is there to write it all down it all ends with the police getting called in to protect Ford Thaxton from rioters who want to kill him.

    [Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 06-30-2005]

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    posted 06-30-2005 02:46 AM PT (US)     

     Mark Olivarez
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    I remember a few years ago Jeron and a few of us Texans thought about a Texas gathering of score fans since there were quite a few of us down here. Sadly it never came about. Or if it was I wasn't invited to it.

    Speaking of Oscars wasn't it mentioned, don't know how true it was, that the Academy was all set to give Goldsmith the Oscar for Hoosiers but because he recorded it overseas in a country who was on our sh*tlist it was awarded to whoever won it that year. Like I said I don't how true this is but I know it's been mentioned on a few sites.

    [Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 06-30-2005]

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    posted 06-30-2005 07:41 AM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    Just recently came across David Mansfield's words on Silva's re-recording of his two themes from Heaven's Gate (as they are presented on Silva's "Classic Western Scores Volume 2" CD):

    "Two cues from Heaven's Gate are included, along with themes form classic western scores by Maurice Jarre, Jerry Fielding, Dimitri Tiomkin, Elmer Bernstein and others. Unfortunately my two cues are not the versions from the soundtrack (which I performed). "Sweet Breeze" (the Main Title) holds up pretty well. The arranger (who obviously had to transcribe it by ear) did very well, missing only a handful of notes. Aside from the fact that they didn't have a mandocello (a dominant flavor in the score), and that the music occasionally drifts slightly out of time, and that the mandolin player sounds a little more Greek than Ukranian, it's a very good recording. I can't really say the same for the "Mamou Two-Step" (the famous roller-skating sequence), which sounds more like a Lawrence Welk polka than a cajun two-step...."


    It would be fun to hear more of what composers think of their music on these Silva comps. Most likely not unlike Mansfield's comments!

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    posted 06-30-2005 10:19 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Well I remember Leonard Rosenman disowning the Edel version of his scores conducted by William Motzig. I never heard what he thought of the John Adams recording of his music however.

    If a few of these composers were still alive they'd have strung up Thaxton and the Silva gang a long time ago. Mansfield seems to have gotten off easy as regards to his Main Title. At least he could recognize it as his!

    But yes this is exactly the kind of story that gets passed between fans and is less likely to be colated into a written form that people can immediately consult or disseminate.

    It makes me want to start an institute along the lines of Spielberg's filming oral histories of Holocaust survivors. We haul John Williams into the studio every day he isn't composing and get him to tell us every story he can think of. "C'mon John, more had to happen to you in 3rd grade, remember. Ah hell, increase the dose, give him more Sodium Pentathal........."

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    posted 07-01-2005 03:56 AM PT (US)     

     Howard L
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    Hey Lou, you've reminded me of Preston N. Jones' book on the making of The Night Of The Hunter and how recollections differed for certain things. Mr. Jones tended to disclaim Robert Mitchum's takes, for instance, whenever discrepancies and/or contadictions arose. That of course doesn't fully settle the issue of who was right or wrong--subjectivity aside--but I bring this up to illustrate that the character/reputation of the storyteller seems to bear a lot of importance. At least it's a standard by which the truth of a story is often judged in this oral tradition business.

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    posted 07-03-2005 08:06 PM PT (US)     
     

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