quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron Pulliam:
I was cursing at the time, but I placed my order 3 minutes after the title was announced and revealed three CDs of stuff I already have along with 3 CDs of stuff not available before.

---

Yeah, me too. Yet "buyer's remorse" has not set in, and as I watch the remaining number of sets dwindle, I somehow doubt that it will. I'm saving my curses now for other instances in which I knowingly and consensually allow myself to be first hyped and then bamboozled!

Philipp

quote:

---

To preserve the collectable value of this unique and historic release, we have limited its run to only 1500 copies.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
I just want to run this past everybody again:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>To preserve the collectable value of this unique and historic release, we have limited its run to only 1500 copies.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't that basically saying, "We want to generate a lot of quick demand for this issue, even if it's to soundtrack speculators."

---

So what if it is? All Varese Club CDs are limited editions. So are FSM's, so are Intrada Special Collections. None of them are particularly unreasonably priced. Doing the maths, neither is this.

Varese have had some $130,000 going into their bank this week, on top of their normal business. That's $130,000 they can invest in other scores and soundtracks (and Johnny Cash compilations).

Maybe 3,000 copies of this Goldsmith set would have just cost too much for Varese to have got their money back. Maybe Robert Townson got a bulk discount licensing scores from Fox. I don't know the intricacies of putting together something like this, but they've obviously sunk a hell of a lot of money into it; Fox didn't license them these scores for $30 and change. The set is there. Buy it now for $130 plus shipping, buy it in six months for $220 plus shipping from someone with a feedback rating. That's the choice, and whining isn't going to change that. They're not going to give these things away with a packet of Weety Flakes.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
I always thought the high price and "limited" nature of these releases came out of necessity, so that the union and licensing fees wouldn't be an astronomical amount for such a tiny audience. It seems that instead of necessity, Varese is saying that it's limited to keep the value high. That's simply not good for any fanboy, but it's great for those lamers on eBay. IMHO. If it's so "historic," certainly more people would want to buy it than 1500?

---

Well, again, so what if it is? If the numbers are kept down, then Varese don't have to pay as much in licensing. I don't see how they could have somehow charged less for it if they'd licensed more, and may well have been left with 1,000 copies of an over-produced run. My guess is they did simple economic equations to determine the maximum projected income against known expenditure.

Whether the CDs are bought by an eBay lamer or a Goldsmith fan doesn't make any difference to Varese, it's still $129.98 plus s/h. I also don't see how you can stop people reselling the items on eBay after they've bought it. I also don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to sell it if they want to.

You say the audience is "tiny". Given that of all the sellouts from Varese and FSM, not one of them is a Goldsmith score, it would appear that audience doesn't even number 3,000. (Obviously I'm not counting the first set of Varese Club discs here; all of those are sold out, and many other "unlimited editions" command equally silly prices on eBay these days.) Maybe those speculators won't be able to offload their surplus Goldsmith sets as easily as you think?

And again, if those speculators think they can get, say, $180 from an eBay sale, doesn't it make sense to get it now from Varese? Besides, this isn't a car boot sale. No haggling. If you only think it's worth $80 or $45, that's your privilege, but they're not going to sell it for that.

Are you suggesting that the set ISN'T "historic"? I'd still think it was, given the wealth of previously unreleased (and for me, completely unknown) music that in at least one case was thought lost forever (DAMNATION ALLEY). I look forward to receiving my copy next month.

Off all the CD's Varese releases a year I don't mind if they do something like this once in a while. Why not celebrate such a great composer in a grandiose way?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Street:
My guess is they did simple economic equations to determine the maximum projected income against known expenditure.

---

Obviously their economic equations were too simple and didn't allow for nitwits buying two copies, thus depriving people who may not have 130$ today, but might have $130 in a month when the title will be sold out to speculators.

Y'know, when the local grocery store has packages of mineral water bottles marked with a 50% rebate sticker, they limit the quantity to three 24-bottle packs per customer to prevent 7/11 type shops from buying their whole stock thus not leaving any for regular customers. Mineral water is not historic.
You'd think that a label which thinks one of its products will be so historic/mind boggling/hype/hype/hype/etc would try to make its faithful & key customers happier by insuring that more of them will be able to buy it, rather than selling multiple copies to fanboys-turned-speculators or one-time speculator jerks.
The price may have dictated that only 1500 would have spend 130$ on it, but if it's *that* historic, they should have anticipated that others would get on board.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dinko:
Obviously their economic equations were too simple and didn't allow for nitwits buying two copies, thus depriving people who may not have 130$ today, but might have $130 in a month when the title will be sold out to speculators.

---

Well, tough. Maybe I have $130 now, and maybe I WON'T have $130 in a month, and certainly won't have the (presumed) $180+ eBay price in April. The financial circumstances of every single person on this planet are completely different and Varese can't possibly match their release schedule with YOUR wallet any more than they can with mine, Peter K's or the Dalai Lama's.

quote:

---

Y'know, when the local grocery store has packages of mineral water bottles marked with a 50% rebate sticker, they limit the quantity to three 24-bottle packs per customer to prevent 7/11 type shops from buying their whole stock thus not leaving any for regular customers. Mineral water is not historic.

---

Well, whoopee for the grocery industry but again, so what? The Goldsmith set isn't normally available at $260 but For This Week Only Reduced To $129.98!!!! It's a one-time release. And really, there's nothing to stop each member of the 7/11's checkout staff going down to the grocery store in turn and buying 3 24-bottle packs of the reduced water. If people want to wriggle round this, they will.

quote:

---

You'd think that a label which thinks one of its products will be so historic/mind boggling/hype/hype/hype/etc would try to make its faithful & key customers happier by insuring that more of them will be able to buy it, rather than selling multiple copies to fanboys-turned-speculators or one-time speculator jerks.

---

How are they supposed to ensure that? Are they supposed to put an online disclaimer on the website saying "These CDs may not be sold on eBay for a price higher than our retail price, and may not be sold within two years of your purchase."? Suppose they do - what can they do if you break that agreement and sell it in twenty-two months for ten cents more? Legal action? And again, why the hell should they?

Should they put on a "One Copy Only" notice on their website? Maybe someone would like to buy extra copies as gifts for friends. Or for someone who doesn't have internet access.

quote:

---

The price may have dictated that only 1500 would have spend 130$ on it, but if it's *that* historic, they should have anticipated that others would get on board.

---

I would suggest that the figure of 1,500 was NOT arrived at by Robert Townson deliberately setting out to screw the fans. I would suggest that was the figure at which a reasonable investment would result in the best return on that investment. They could have paid extra and run off 3,000, or paid even more and run off 10,000. They could have paid even more and run off 100,000. But where does it reach the point where the return no longer justifies that extra outlay?

quote:

---

It may not make a difference for Varèse Sarabande's wallet, but it *might* make a difference in the long-term perception of their image: are they trying to screw the fanboy crowd? If so, is fanboy Joe going to support them? Or is he going to be more picky in the choice of soundtracks he buys and which company is releasing them?

---

Now you're just talking rubbish. Do you know why I have a DIE HARD CD on the desk in front of me? Because I wanted the music from DIE HARD. Why do I have a CD of THE OMEGA MAN on my shelf? Because I wanted the music from THE OMEGA MAN. If GNP Crescendo had released them, I'd have bought them from GNP Crescendo. If Intrada had released them, I'd have bought them from Intrada. They didn't. Varese and FSM did. So I bought them from Varese and FSM.

Yes, maybe fanboy Joe will decide to pass on a particular CD because he doesn't like the label it's released on. That makes fanboy Joe a bloody idiot, and hardly an authority Varese should be taking much notice of when it comes to its business policies.

And Varese Sarabande restricting access to their product, and restricting what you are allowed to do with it, doesn't sound like much of a positive image-boosting idea either.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
If I could go back in time about five years and not buy any Varese or FSM FOX Goldsmith issues, it might make sense to buy it. As it is now, it's a waste of a lot of money and I'm annoyed that Varese Sarabande has made something so huge just for the "value" of it. The first three discs are more like something I'd expect FSM or Varese Sarabande to give away for free or cheap when I buy something to promote their other releases. (Like this thing.)

---

And if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have done this, that and the other, wasted money on the wrong lottery numbers and taken that lousy job. I suppose it's hardly worth pointing out that the Varese set gives you 6:48 of 100 RIFLES whereas FSM gives you 76:55 of the whole thing, twice, including source music. So you'd lose out on the odd 70:07 that way.

quote:

---

I'm certainly not saying it isn't historic, at the very least it's very historic in price. It's also historic in the fact that I've never been so annoyed to be a Goldsmith fan. The frustration of never having this stuff released has been amplified by a record label that thinks I'm such a fool that I'm going to spend $130 for it mashed together with a lot of stuff I already own.

---

The idea that Varese has set out to personally con you out of your money is ludicrous. All compilation discs and sets contain material previously available in some form or another. Again, the fact that you own a lot of this stuff, such as the FSM Westerns CDs, doesn't mean everybody else does. I don't, for a start, and I'd be surprised if I'm the only one.

quote:

---

I suppose it's hardly worth pointing out that the Varese set gives you 6:48 of 100 RIFLES whereas FSM gives you 76:55 of the whole thing, twice, including source music. So you'd lose out on the odd 70:07 that way.

---

Right, I already own 100 Rifles on the FSM CD, so why would I want to buy another seven minutes of it again? I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only Goldsmith fan who has many Fox-Goldsmith scores in his or her collection.

I've said this a hundred times already: Goldsmith fans who have spent hundreds of dollars on Goldsmith albums are getting the short end of the stick with this set. If I were starting a soundtrack collection today, this set would be a magnificent introduction to Jerry Goldsmith. As a fan who already owns a lot of his music, I think it's a rather big disappointment.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
I've said this a hundred times already: Goldsmith fans who have spent hundreds of dollars on Goldsmith albums are getting the short end of the stick with this set. If I were starting a soundtrack collection today, this set would be a magnificent introduction to Jerry Goldsmith. As a fan who already owns a lot of his music, I think it's a rather big disappointment.

---

I can understand your disappointment, Jonathan, that this well-hyped release was not of much interest to you and others who have a lot of Goldsmith CDs. It is fair to say, however, that no release is interesting or worthwhile to everyone. This one only had to be exciting to 1500 or so collectors, and apparently the producers have been successful in that regard. We really have no basis for bitching about this set -- it's a sensational release to many of us -- since Varese has no way of knowing what you or anyone else already has in his collection. As with any other soundtrack release, we consider the desirability vs. the cost factor, and decide accordingly. It doesn't work for you, so you don't buy it. Looking down the road a piece, though, it seems clear that Varese has plans for additional great Goldsmith releases during the next year, and more than likely some or most of them will be ones you don't already have. Like single or double-disc full score releases of some of those sampled in the set. So rather than trashing Varese for offering something that just so happens to be not worthwhile to you, why not look on the bright side and realize that there's more coming, and that the success of the box set "as is" will make it possible for those other ones you want to come out in the next few months.

quote:

---

What can I say, Richard? Can't you at least understand where I'm coming from? You're trying to make it like Dinko and I are selfish people that want Varese Sarabande to cater to us exclusively and that's not the case.

---

Noted, but in all honesty that's rather how it's coming across. It's just not possible to put together any kind of compilation that's guaranteed 100% unreleased AND of sufficient interest to a large number of consumers AND provides a wide overview of Jerry at Fox.

quote:

---

Right, I already own 100 Rifles on the FSM CD, so why would I want to buy another seven minutes of it again? I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only Goldsmith fan who has many Fox-Goldsmith scores in his or her collection.

---

Oh, same here. In my case it's less, as mentioned in previous postings, but there's still a lot on Discs 1 and 3 that I already have.

The remark about 100 RIFLES seems to be a misinterpretation on my part: it sounded, in the post I was responding to, as though you were suggesting that the Varese set was a worthwhile alternative to the earlier FSM and Varese releases of Goldsmith's scores. Of course, it isn't.

quote:

---

I've said this a hundred times already: Goldsmith fans who have spent hundreds of dollars on Goldsmith albums are getting the short end of the stick with this set. If I were starting a soundtrack collection today, this set would be a magnificent introduction to Jerry Goldsmith. As a fan who already owns a lot of his music, I think it's a rather big disappointment.

---

Well, it ultimately comes down to that decision: is the extra unreleased (or remastered, as I suspect FINAL CONFLICT is) music worth the asking price - all or nothing? You obviously think not. I think it is, and have stumped up accordingly. For one copy only.

Would I have liked more unreleased and less already available? Sure. Maybe there's more to THE VANISHING than included here. Or maybe there are unreleased tracks from existing releases (there's sure as hell more from ALIEN, and maybe the reason they've only included 14:22 of ALIEN is that they might be planning a full release of that great, great score, and including, say, 30 minutes on here would look very underhand).

From what I gather, scores such as THE DETECTIVE and VON RYAN'S EXPRESS are complete or near complete, and a Club disc of 20 minutes of music just isn't going to work (although it did with the first incarnation of the Club; but that was before The 30-Minute Re-Use Affair). So much of this previously unavailable music probably WON'T be available again. I can't recall a vast amount of messageboard conversation about the score to A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN or S*P*Y*S, and I've never even heard of FATE IS THE HUNTER or SHOCK TREATMENT; these were complete surprises. Varese have really gone to town on this set and I'm sure the end result will be mightily impressive. For the money, I hope it is. (And the current exchange rate favours us in the UK: it's not costing much more than commercially available high street CDs.)

quote:

---

"For reasons explained in the booklet notes, very little of this material will ever surface again."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hellstrom:

Isn't it selling well enough already?

---

Down to less than 500 copies, and it's only been a week since they announced it.

My point should be evident by the fact that discussions about this boxed set have turned into what they have: namely, a lot of people not buying this because they have most of everything on 3 of 6 CDs... which, as we've seen, has caused plenty of hesitation on the part of these potential buyers (and avid Goldsmith collectors). If Varese would have hinted that a lot of the unreleased material would never see the light of day again, those hesitant to buy would have had no second thoughts about it. Extreme as it may sound, but this is an example I've heard: if this actually is the only time in the history of man to have the Damnation Alley original recording, many might even say that alone is worth $130. Varese never mentioned this is your only chance to own a lot of what appears on half of the collection. To me, that's a big selling point, and the point of my post.

I’ll bet every person who just couldn’t bring themselves to buy the set will be lining up to get CD-R’s from those who do have it. How much you want to bet they even want the 3 CD’s of music they already have?

quote:

---

Originally posted by MWRuger:
I really couldn't afford it either. Yet at the same time, I didn’t feel like I could pass it up. I am sorry that many people can’t afford it, but I can almost guarantee that this will be the most heavily copied set of CDs in existence.

---

I have to agree. I expect the material on discs 4-6 will be booted from here to eternity in one form or another.

Just hear those sleigh bells jingle-ing
Ring ting tingle-ing too
Come on, it's lovely weather
For a sleigh ride together with you

Outside the snow is falling
And friends are calling "Yoo Hoo"
Come on, it's lovely weather
For a sleigh ride together with you

Giddy-up giddy-up giddy-up
let's go
Let's look at the snow
We're riding in a wonderland of snow

Giddy-up giddy-up giddy-up it's grand
Just holding your hand
We're gliding along with the song
Of a wintry fairy land

Our cheeks are nice and rosy
And comfy cozy are we
We're snuggled up together like two
Birds of a feather would be

Let's take the road before us
And sing a chorus or two
Come on, it's lovely weather
For a sleigh ride together with you

There's a birthday party at the home of Farmer Gray
It'll be the perfect ending of a perfect day

We'll be singing the songs we love to sing without a single stop
At the fireplace while we watch the chestnuts pop

Pop! Pop! Pop!

There's a happy feeling nothing in the world can buy
When they pass around the coffee and the pumpkin pie

It'll nearly be like a picture print by Currier and Ives
These wonderful things are the things
We remember all through our lives

Just hear those sleigh bells jingling, ring-ting-tingling, too
Come on, it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you
Outside the snow is falling and friends are calling, "Yoo-hoo!"
Come on, it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you

Giddy-up, giddy-up, giddy-up, let's go
Let's look at the show
We're riding in a wonderland of snow
Giddy-up, giddy-up, giddy-up, it's grand
Just holding your hand
We're gliding along with a song of a wintery fairyland