That said, I think this is one of HZ's best scores. Especially, "Spectres in the Fog" and "Taken". (also, it's uniquely good for studying—especially in these desperate times of exams)

The Japanese influences (and I have been to Japan) are not really traditional.
The drums and shakuhachi are replayed and replayed again and audiosonically /cosmetically altered in such a way that it just sounds cheesy.

What James Netwon Howard has in 'Snow Falling on Cedars' is authentic Japanese drums.

The overal theme (in musical writing) is very good. But the selection of instruments is poor. And that again just destroys the whole score.

Hans Zimmer is 'saturated'. As are many of the well known composers.
When an artist has worked so long time-after-time with upcoming and following works things start to blend in. They lose their individual identity and 'merge' into eachother.
I myself have labelled James Horner as being 'saturated'. Even Jerry Goldsmith (who is by-the-way my favorite!) and Morricone and John Williams.

But you know.... James Horner has now delivered after some time of rest a good and really different piece of work: BEYOND BORDERS.
And or that I value it and his efforts. The score is equally well performed and contains new elements that re 'fresh' for Horner.
Bravo!

Speaking of James Horner, (even though it's not anything 'new'—like everything John Williams is doing now [except, of course, Catch Me If You Can]) I was impressed by The Missing. Both the film and score. Since I've never liked anything Ron Howard has done, I was quite surprised and felt that the film delievered strong performances, with excellent cinematography and Horner's score propelling the story at a nice pace; the highlights being "Dawk to Dusk; The Riderless Horse", "The Brujo's Storm", "Rescue and Breakout" and "An Insurmountable Hurdle"—providing some fo the most exciting action music of the year.

Oddly one of the "additional composers" is Christopher Young. Has he gone to the MV "dark side" or did the film makers just temp in a piece of music from one of his other scores? Who can say? Musically the film was A LOT of songs and about 15-20 mins of underscore, sometimes with both seguing into each other. However, the "main theme" is DEFINITELY from a prior Zimmer score.

Can anyone tell me how far Alan Silvestri got on this project before they went with Zimmer?

quote:

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Originally posted by sean:
I'm listening to The Last Samurai and something struck me in tracks one and seven, with the performance of the theme for Tom Cruise. This is the variation that plays out in prgression, starting off very low and deep before moving on to bigger and (it sounds like) dumber things. There's a string backup that begins playing just before the theme really explodes, backed up by the Shakuhachi; that string motif that backs it up, to me, sounds potentially phony or cheesy; like a cheap trick to fake real emotion in the music. (at FSM Friday there's a quote from some newspaper that says that HZ tells the audience too often what to feel, and I think maybe this performance of that theme—which is over the top in the film where Tom Cruise gets the sh*t kicked out of him by that disapproving samurai with the wooden swrod—could be the culprate. Did anyone else notice this? Is it a cheap trick or actually good writing? Right now, I'm leaning to the former.

That said, I think this is one of HZ's best scores. Especially, "Spectres in the Fog" and "Taken". (also, it's uniquely good for studying—especially in these desperate times of exams)

NP: The Last Samurai *****/*****

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
I just saw "Something's Gotta Give" and I'd have to say that Zimmer's REAL "cheap trick" is ripping off the theme from one of his prior romantic comedy scores for this film and then having 6 or 7 "additional composers" to boot.

Oddly one of the "additional composers" is Christopher Young. Has he gone to the MV "dark side" or did the film makers just temp in a piece of music from one of his other scores? Who can say? Musically the film was A LOT of songs and about 15-20 mins of underscore, sometimes with both seguing into each other. However, the "main theme" is DEFINITELY from a prior Zimmer score.
James

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
I just saw "Something's Gotta Give" and I'd have to say that Zimmer's REAL "cheap trick" is ripping off the theme from one of his prior romantic comedy scores for this film and then having 6 or 7 "additional composers" to boot.

Oddly one of the "additional composers" is Christopher Young. Has he gone to the MV "dark side" or did the film makers just temp in a piece of music from one of his other scores? Who can say? Musically the film was A LOT of songs and about 15-20 mins of underscore, sometimes with both seguing into each other. However, the "main theme" is DEFINITELY from a prior Zimmer score.

Can anyone tell me how far Alan Silvestri got on this project before they went with Zimmer?

James

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He recorded the entire score. I heard he wrote some beautiful music for it. Hearing your thoughts about the final cliché Zimmer score further confirms my belief about how extremely dumb and odd the decision of director Meyers was to replace Silvestri. If she really wants an one-dimensional cliché score of course Silvestri can deliver her one. In my opinion a horrific insult and a tasteless stab in the back after all he has done for her in the past and given her his friendship. I'm really angry.

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Originally posted by sean:
But Foobsie, what about the specific thing I mentioned? lol...

Speaking of James Horner, (even though it's not anything 'new'—like everything John Williams is doing now [except, of course, Catch Me If You Can]) I was impressed by The Missing. Both the film and score. Since I've never liked anything Ron Howard has done, I was quite surprised and felt that the film delievered strong performances, with excellent cinematography and Horner's score propelling the story at a nice pace; the highlights being "Dawk to Dusk; The Riderless Horse", "The Brujo's Storm", "Rescue and Breakout" and "An Insurmountable Hurdle"—providing some fo the most exciting action music of the year.

NP: SNL

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Sorry Sean....
I am now listening to BEYOND BORDERS, LOONEY TUNES-BACK IN ACTION, TAKEN and STAR TREK: NEMESIS. 5 discs and I have no more slots left.

But what you are describing is a technique that is in use by more composers than just Zimmer. Strings are mainly used for (very) emotional moments. This is the Romantic use. Now you also have a very agressive use of strings. Like in Hermann's Psycho.
But the 'swell up' to the highlight is for me just plain plain plain and recognizable. I do not see it as pure Zimmer. It something they learn in basic composition class I think.

THE MISSING is a poor work from Horner.
It has too many relations with past work is neither inspiring nor refreshing. Plain two stars as THE LAST SAMURAI also gets two stars. There are moment in TLS that elevate it too a three star rating but as soon as those synths come into action it drops back to two stars. Do the math and on average the synths are more dominant in frequence of use and occurance in TLS that they overpower the simple yet humble string melody.

It is by far the most exciting music of the year. But that is a personal opinion of yours and mine. We still have 15 more days to go before years end. Some surprise may yet come!

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Originally posted by ESB:

[b]I just saw "Something's Gotta Give" and I'd have to say that Zimmer's REAL "cheap trick" is ripping off the theme from one of his prior romantic comedy scores for this film and then having 6 or 7 "additional composers" to boot.

Oddly one of the "additional composers" is Christopher Young. Has he gone to the MV "dark side" or did the film makers just temp in a piece of music from one of his other scores? Who can say? Musically the film was A LOT of songs and about 15-20 mins of underscore, sometimes with both seguing into each other. However, the "main theme" is DEFINITELY from a prior Zimmer score.

Can anyone tell me how far Alan Silvestri got on this project before they went with Zimmer?

James
He recorded the entire score. I heard he wrote some beautiful music for it. Hearing your thoughts about the final cliché Zimmer score further confirms my belief about how extremely dumb and odd the decision of director Meyers was to replace Silvestri. If she really wants an one-dimensional cliché score of course Silvestri can deliver her one. In my opinion a horrific insult and a tasteless stab in the back after all he has for her in the past and given her his friendship. I'm really angry.

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Originally posted by HadrianD:
Perhaps it wasn't Nancy Meyer's decision. Perhaps the studio saw that the test screening didn't go so well, and thought that the film needed a change? And given what happened with the previous Nicholson comedy, scored by Hans, perhaps they thought they'd try that formula.
But then, Nancy Meyer ain't exactly James Brooks. Not that it's anything against her.

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A Way of Life: 7:17 — 7:55
Safe Passage: 1:58 — 2:14

You can actually hear what sounds like synth now, mimmicking strings in the background, like it's supposed to be really emotional or something; sounds like a cheap trick at elivating Cruise's theme beyond anywhere it could actually go.

And Foobsie! LOL! I know how strings are used for crying out loud... hahaha, I have over 400 scores. As far as The Missing is concerned, I tend to agree with the review CC wrote at Filmtracks. Though I think CC can be too generous with Horner sometimes, The Missing review is pretty consistent with the score, IMO; and it doesn't hurt that Thunderheart is one of my favourite Horner scores, as well.

I look at Something's Gotta Give this way: Looks like another dumb Jack Nicholson film; Silvestri got dropped (don't really care); Zimmer was asked to score another bad movie—had no time and wrote a main theme, gave it to buddies at MV and a short score was produced in little time. No big deal there. Now, Silvestri getting canned from Pirates of the Carribean; that's another thing.

I'm still amzed Horner wrote Aliens in 2 weeks and Goldsmith the same with McNeely on Air Force One. So, Zimmer doing this romantic comedy doesn't really register with me, nor does the fact that Silvestri was booted.

NP: The Last Samurai - HZ *****/*****

[Message edited by sean on 12-14-2003]

Ah yes, finally something new for Horner to rip off for the next decade.