And let's face it...sometimes online sites can be wrong...

--Brian

Is there some recyled bits of Horner in this score...yes. The classic cyclical horn bit (used most recently in Enemy at the Gates) shows up frequently. THat being said, there is much more new and interesting material here than recycled. Now, new and interesting does not always mean good, but I have to say I have found something to like in almost every track of this score.

1. Track 2: Troy...an excellent use of brass for this fanfare. Something quite different than his previous works, even the orchestrations.

2. What I can only refer to as the "Heroic theme" that figures prominently in Achilles Leads the Myrmidons, The Trojans Attack, and Though the Fire, Achilles...& Immortality. This has to be one of the better themes Horner has written in a decade.

3. Another theme figures prominently in Through the Fire, Achilles...& Immortality, which is also the theme for the Remember Me song at the end of the album. Another fairly solid theme.

4. The Greek Army & its Defeat features a fantastic build-up in the first two minutes. (I'm not sure if this is the piece Dinko referred to in his previous post. I'm not going to debate the copying issue...but I love the piece regardless.)

5. There is quite a bit of this score which does not sound like classic Horner at all...tracks 1, 4 & 9 for example.

I just finished listening to them all once more, and I'm still astonished. Whatever movie Troy ends up being, no matter how serviceable Horner's score may be, I will go on the record by saying that I believe Yared's score would have in all likelihood lifted the film above and beyond anything Horner could have submitted. When we talk about film scores adding that "extra magic" or pushing it to that "next level," this is the kind of music that does it. And as stated in one of the texts available for reading on Yared's site, there's absolutely no way a replacement score with only a one-month investment of time, can possibly compare to this labour of love that encompassed a year of Yared's life. It's tragic, it really is.

Listen to the End Credit Song -- you'll know what I'm talking about.

The cues can be grouped in a few different sections: 1) uninspired percussion underscore throughout the first 30 minutes of the film. 2) "ethnic" female solo vocals, sometimes with a soft choir background that sounds like synth...seems quite uninspired and simply like nothing more than a cheap clichee. 3) the Achilles theme, which must have been written in 10 minutes, seems horribly out of place in the movie. 4) I thought we'd heard a lot of that 4-note motif from Parsifal during the last two decades, but this score must contain considerably more statements of it than all previous Horner scores put together - he based entire battle cues on non-stop repetitions of it! Seems to be some kind of leitmotif, but I honestly couldn't figure out whether it stood for the Greeks or the Troyans or simply danger per se.

There ARE a few really good parts, but not many. The most effective bit, underscoring the Hector/Achilles duel, is really nothing more than an endless, repetitive percussion rhythm. VERY effective though.

The first big assault on the city screams Nevsky, not only visually but also through the score. And the big finale, while nice (except when the annoying Achilles theme pops up), is just a variation on variations on a theme by Thomas Tallis, but for strings AND brass (until yesterday, I thought the slight RVWish bits in Sneakers might just be coincidence).

And most of the time, the score's effectiveness in the movie is hardly there at all. No matter if you care for Horner's "Hornering" or not (and I think he has written some great scores, even when they contain obvious rip offs), you simply didn't need a Horner to write this - everyone could have done it.

I have yet to listen to Yared's pieces, but they can only be much better.

Regardless, your off the cuff slap that it sounds as if it was written in 10-minutes seems unfounded. For me, it is one of the better themes that I have heard in some time.

That being said, I am not hearing music that warrants these overwhelming statements of "magic" and "best score of the year." To each there own I guess.

I actually prefer the female vocals in Horner's work a little better.

From the director's and movie executives perspective, perhaps they were looking for clearly established themes in the score. While all of Yared's work was excellent...no pronounced themes jumped out at me (or that I remembered.) I might need to give it a few more listens.

"Less impressive is conductor James Horner's scoring, a hodgepodge of generically ethnic mosque wailing (think "Black Hawk Down") and some leftovers from "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan," which Horner also scored."

I found that amusing as I was playing "Troy" for my boss today at work as she is familiar with James Horner via "Titanic" and when I told her about that review she said right away that she recognized the "Star Trek II" music in "Troy."

And the beat...err...ethnic wailing...goes on.

Fºººººg Horner bashers

quote:

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Originally posted by workaluk:
I think that if we listen a little closer,we also have Livin'La Vida Loca and some cues are from some songs of Eminem and even the Beatles.......

Fºººººg Horner bashers

Nuno Cunha

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Oh no, the Horner fans strike back!

quote:

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Originally posted by workaluk:
I think that if we listen a little closer,we also have Livin'La Vida Loca and some cues are from some songs of Eminem and even the Beatles.......

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Sure everyone is pissed because Gabriel Yared's score was rejected,but James Horner his not the cause of that rejection,so don't take revenge on him or his score...

And BTW,Yared's score is fine,but it's not THE best score of year or anything close,that's my opinion anyway....

NP-The Fan - Hans Zimmer

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
I watched the movie yesterday, and I have to say, Horner's score is simply irrelevant.

The cues can be grouped in a few different sections: 1) uninspired percussion underscore throughout the first 30 minutes of the film. 2) "ethnic" female solo vocals, sometimes with a soft choir background that sounds like synth...seems quite uninspired and simply like nothing more than a cheap clichee. 3) the Achilles theme, which must have been written in 10 minutes, seems horribly out of place in the movie. 4) I thought we'd heard a lot of that 4-note motif from Parsifal during the last two decades, but this score must contain considerably more statements of it than all previous Horner scores put together - he based entire battle cues on non-stop repetitions of it! Seems to be some kind of leitmotif, but I honestly couldn't figure out whether it stood for the Greeks or the Troyans or simply danger per se.

There ARE a few really good parts, but not many. The most effective bit, underscoring the Hector/Achilles duel, is really nothing more than an endless, repetitive percussion rhythm. VERY effective though.

The first big assault on the city screams Nevsky, not only visually but also through the score. And the big finale, while nice (except when the annoying Achilles theme pops up), is just a variation on variations on a theme by Thomas Tallis, but for strings AND brass (until yesterday, I thought the slight RVWish bits in Sneakers might just be coincidence).

And most of the time, the score's effectiveness in the movie is hardly there at all. No matter if you care for Horner's "Hornering" or not (and I think he has written some great scores, even when they contain obvious rip offs), you simply didn't need a Horner to write this - everyone could have done it.

I have yet to listen to Yared's pieces, but they can only be much better.

NP: Flesh+Blood (Basil Poledouris)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
I didn't say EVERY cue is taken from somewhere else, but with Troy it's worse than ever before it seems. I don't blame Horner for Yared's rejection, and never did. And I never said Yared's score was the best of any time span, because having heard only one cue that would be really stupid.

But that doesn't change Horner's music, which IMHO is not just mostly really bad music but also mostly really bad for this film.

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Sorry Marian,but i wasn't talking about you,far from me calling any names to fine woman like you.LOL

In fact in my country we have a saying that goes roughly like this:

You should only hit a woman with a flower.

That's why we hit them with the flower pot LOL

Sorry just kidding....

NP-Bobby Jones - James Horner

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Originally posted by workaluk:
Sorry Marian,but i wasn't talking about you,far from me calling any names to fine woman like you.

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Haha, go ahead Nuno! Hit her!

Marian, man... maybe you should just change your name dude. I'm sure the whole gender confusion thing gets annoying!

I do agree that the Achilles theme got better near the end, but it still didn't seem to fit.

Well in Cobra the Stallone's character name was Marion,so it kinda makes sense...

Sorry again Mister Marian lol

Anyway, when you write a music for a film, you have to write a music that serve the movie, not a CD listening. And from what I've read so far, his music work pretty well with the movie. Maybe Yared work would have worked as well, but they had some reasons to fire him I guess.

It has been said that Horner didn't use any ghost writer for this movie. So, considering the amount of work to do, what he has done is incredible. Howeber, it's sad that this seem to be the new "great" conditions of working for a film composer these days. Those who have plenty of time for a score are well renowned or very lucky. My main concern is that by delivering a score of this scale on a so short notice, producers and directors will continue to cut the time allowed to a composer to write his score. And since they are able to deliver on a so short notice, i think we'll more rejection of composers in the future. If they don't like the music for some reason when the film is almost done, they know they can find somebody else to do the job in a short notice. Horner just did it, Media Venture did it for POTC, and there's other as well.

I won't comment on the plagiarism issue, because those that loathe Horner amazingly find that his works are exact copies of various classical reference while others cannot. I won't bother...no point.

That being said, the Achilles theme sounds nothing like Cutthroat Island, in my opinion...and again...useless debate.

"There are some big movie flourishes I could do without, like James Horner's music -- wordless wailing women, pounding drums, the Big Theme that returns like Nemesis, again and again."

Funny that Horner is taking such a beating from critics on the score. I wonder if Yared's music (which featured some similar aspects to Horner's) would have fared any better.

Guess we'll never know.

However, I disagree about the approach of the Greeks. I guess it works somewhat well, and the big similarity to Nevsky isn't too annoying considering the whole scene is visually taken from that movie...but having heard Yared's piece for that scene (and that's all I've heard of his score so far), Horner's really can't compare.

quote:

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Originally posted by workaluk:
[B]WHOAAAAAAA,sorry my bad,i didn't know,but i saw the name and Marian,well you know it's a girl name LOL...

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Don't worry...it's happened before.

quote:

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Well in Cobra the Stallone's character name was Marion,so it kinda makes sense...

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