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      LOTR:ROTK track-by-track analysis, part one

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    Topic:   LOTR:ROTK track-by-track analysis, part one

     franz_conrad
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    **** SPOILERS ABOUND *****

    While I slowly worked through part four of my TTT:EE cue-by-cue analysis, it occurred to me that it had been a whole week since I'd posted anything on it. It really isn't ready yet, so perhaps this analysis of the first 10 tracks of ROTK will satisfy present interest in Shore's music for a few hours! I must stress that I haven't seen the film, and won't until Dec 26th in my country, but since we'll all know where the music appears after we've seen the film, what's the harm in guessing now?


    1. A Storm is Coming

    I'm operating under the assumption that this track, 'A Storm is Coming', is for the prologue scene where Deagol and Smeagol discover the Ring in ages past. This is likely, given the duration of previous prologues and the abrupt changes in the cue, to not be the complete piece of score for the scene.

    0:01 - Woodwind passage joined by strings.
    0:20 - Waltz-like piece of music.
    0:32 - Ring theme performed for woodwind and strings. THE MAIN TITLE.
    0:50 - Woodwind solo over soft strings. Deagol and Smeagol are fishing on the river near the Gladden Fields. Lovely pastoral theme here.
    1:14 - Spritely string/woodwind passage builds as Deagol is pulled into...
    1:36 - ... a river, where he finds the Ring. Cue Ring theme. Some music likely cut here.
    1:55 - Dark nervous strings build with muted brass underneath...
    2:03 - Stabs of brass - trombones probably - play an action piece that recalls Frodo's struggle with Gollum in 'the Taming of Smeagol'. Smeagol and Deagol fight over the Ring here.
    2:10 - Driving strings enter with muscular brass textures...
    2:16 - Violin/violas play a quicker version of a familiar phrase (can't quite put my finger on what it is) and in the background a snippet of Sauron/Mordor's theme is heard. Smeagol has probably put the Ring on and felt the gaze of Sauron's eye. He flees to the mountains.
    2:29 - The descending third theme for the Ring is heard, rounding out the track.

    Note the differences in the music for the scenes in which Frodo and Gollum acquire the Ring. While Frodo's scene was scored with mysterious string, largely playing variations on the Ring theme, the violence by which Smeagol came by the Ring is evident in the music. Some nice pastoral material - not quite hobbit music, which is appropriate since the Stoors were not technically hobbits.

    Another possible analysis of the second half of the track (2:10-end) comes from the scene where Pippen contends with Sauron.


    2. Hope and Memory

    My guess is we have a scene here where the Fellowship, recently reunited, parts again, as Gandalf and Pippen depart for Minas Tirith on Shadowfax, while Aragorn, Legolas, Merry and Gimli remain in the Westfold with Theoden to consider their next move.

    0:01 - Bouncy string phrase for violins. Gandalf is probably rushing about his business, eager to move on before Pippen's rash act brings all of Mordor down on the Westfold.
    0:12 - Muted brass joins the string phrase.
    0:21 - Snippet of hobbit theme for woodwinds as Pippen and Merry farewell. Perhaps some line is said here about the two staying alive for eachother. This is an interesting variation on the hobbit theme with a hint of wariness we haven't heard before.
    0:35 - Strings enter at the end of the hobbit theme and rise as Gandalf and Pippen ride east.
    0:50 - A variation on the White Rider theme is heard, probably to footage of Shadowfax racing over the grass plains. The flute writing here is exhilarating. Underneath the White Rider melody we hear the busy strings heard in TTT whenever Gandalf is eager to get about his business. (Listen to the TTT album cut of 'The White Rider' (0:50-1:23) for example.)
    1:06 - Statement of the Fellowship theme as Merry, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are left alone with Theoden's army.
    1:23 - Nice variation on the Fellowship theme appears here. It reminds me of the music for the Departure of the Fellowship from Rivendell in FOTR:EE, and may even feature the same phrase that appeared there. There's a touch of the White Rider theme here as well.

    Highlight is the variation on the White Rider theme halfway through. The cue also indicates something apparent from the first track - the woodwind writing and mixing is superb on this score.


    3. Minas Tirith

    My guess is this track is a montage of Gandalf and Pippen's journey to Minas Tirith, ending with a triumphant statement of the Minas Tirith theme as the city comes fully into sight. The last minute of the track likely comes from a later scene involving Aragorn and the White City. Much like Goldsmith's cue for Star Trek: The Motion Picture, each time we see another glimpse of the city, the Gondor theme is given another blast.

    0:01 - sombre performance of the Gondor theme for brass as Pippen awakens on Shadowfax, the landscape of Anorien flying by. The first things he sees are the beacons which are lit in the White Mountains, and we may even see some of them close up while Gandalf describes their function. Note in the first few seconds of the cue, the strings underneath the Gondor theme seem to suggest the Ring theme, which we know from HS's commentary on FOTR is associated with the Gondor theme.
    0:13 - sombre passage for strings and brass. The above scene description continues.
    0:30 - deep surging string figure that I know I've heard in another score with chorus attached. (Can't think of what that score is either.) Evil lurks near or is discussed in this scene.
    0:44 - violins play eerie phrase over the cello/bass figure mentioned above. Perhaps Gandalf is warning Pippen about Denethor, or they may have come to one of the checkpoints in the Rammas Echor.
    0:52 - string arpeggios play under a grand horn statement of the Gondor theme as the top level of the city (which has seven levels) first comes into glimpse behind the rolling hills of the Pelennor.
    1:16 - as we come out of a unique performance of the Gondor theme, chorus builds in a fashion very similar to the chorus in the extended Amon Hen fight. Probably coming over a hill as Gandalf describes the city to Pippen.
    1:37 - truncated slow brass statement of the Gondor theme as a larger view the city is seen by the travellers.
    1:56 - brass transition to...
    2:02 - Ben Del Maestro intoning lyrics as we swoop down from the wall of the city, guards busy behind the battlements, to a long shot of the Pelennor with Gandalf and Pippen seen in the distance. Building strings and stabs of brass throughout this passage. A boys choir joins Del Maestro.
    2:23 - Another familiar motif is suggested here - it sounds like the 'Temptation'/'Voice of the Ring'/'Seduction' theme often heard when a character is tempted by the Ring. It may be to recall Isilduir's own temptation by the Ring, or it may be purely a coincidence.

    The second part of the track begins with a segue to a cue that comes from later in the film:

    2:35 - Stately horns begin the definitive statement of the Gondor theme with a driving 4 note string ostinato.
    2:55 - Trumpets play the Gondor theme over the ostinato.
    3:01-3:05 - Brass statement of Aragorn's theme.
    3:06 - Reprise of Gondor theme.
    3:14-3:20 - Reprise of Aragorn's theme.
    3:21 - Brass and string coda to the Gondor theme.

    An album highlight to be sure. I suspect this piece of music, though it flows extremely well together, is an amalgam of two cues. The first runs from 0:01 to either 2:01 or 2:35, which are two obvious edit points. As noted above, I suspect the edit point is 2:35.

    An alternative interpretation of the first half of the cue is that the darker material covers the section of the film where Denethor chides Faramir for letting the Ring go.


    4. The White Tree

    My feeling is that this track contains two cues, where the second of the two is an abbreviated version of that cue. The first cue runs from the beginning of the track to 1:32. This cue likely accompanies the title scene, where Pippen and Gandalf pass The White Tree in the court of Ecthelion. The music is appropriately sombre, though it has some curious action towards its end. I couldn't place the second half of the cue (1:33-3:25), though there are three possibilities. The first is that it covers Gandalf and Pippen's ascent through the seven layers of the city to the court of Ecthelion. The second is that it covers Faramir's return from Osgiliath after his encounter with Frodo. The third is that is covers the return of Faramir's men from the suicide assault on the recently-recaptured Osgiliath. Certainly it's impossible to imagine that this strident statement of the Gondor theme underscores the entrance to the White Tower of Ecthelion, as Denethor likely keeps a more sombre house than this music would suggest.

    0:01 - Sombre horns and light percussion suggest the Lorien/Gondor music as Gandalf and Pippen enter Ecthelion's court. The court is dour in temperament, being staffed by men in dark garb and featuring a fountain at its centre with a shrivelled White Tree representing the withered greatness of Numenor.
    0:20 - Ascending string phrase.
    0:32 - Boy Chorus are heard to reprise the melodic material from the death of Boromir in FOTR. See the album track 'Amon Hen'.
    0:46 - Elegaic strings recall the long string lines of the FOTR track 'Prophecy' and 'The Leavetaking'.
    1:08 - Rising strings and woodwinds lead us to the front doors of the White Tower. There may be a hint of the music that appears in FOTR when Gandalf studies the records in Minas Tirith. The music builds as though a revelation of some importance is about to occur. It may simply be the opening of the doors to the White Tower, but it's hard to tell without having seen the film.
    1:32 - One cue ends and we segue into another as we move into a strident brass/string passage. The strings follow a rising/falling motion underneath a rising brass figure.
    1:50 - The brass element dominates here with further variations on the motif begun at 1:32...
    The music continues to build until to a glorious climax until a...
    2:35 - Reprise of the Gondor theme for brass over the rising-falling string motion that led up to this point.
    3:04 - Brass builds up to another reprise of the Gondor theme as deep percussion is heard and the heroic feel of the cue turns to danger in the resolution of the cue.

    Hard to place this dramatically, there's no doubting the wonderful variations on the Gondor material this track gives us, including a short variation on the Lorien/Gondor material.


    5. The Steward of Gondor

    One of the score's dramatic highpoints, this track says a lot about how Howard Shore would score a scene about the futility of war. The first section of the track (0:01-1:21) doubtless covers our introduction to Denethor in the throne room of Gondor. The second section is for the much-discussed dinner table scene (1:22-cue's end) where Faramir leads a suicide charge to recapture Osgiliath. Intercut with that charge is Denethor's nuncheon - noon luncheon. In need of merriment, Denethor orders his new page, Pippen, to sing a Shire song.

    0:01 - Solemn chorus opens the cue as Gandalf and Pippen walk through the Hall of Kings, and are greeted by Denethor.
    0:15 - Pipes enter in another of the score's fantastic woodwind performances. Light percussion can be heard below the pipe melody. I believe the pipes perform a few bars of Aragorn's theme here.
    0:35 - Snippet of thematic material for Denethor/Faramir appears here that is later reprised in 'Hope Fails'.
    0:47 - Stronger brass underscores the pipe melody. Voices can be heard, and the last hint of this cue is the choral 'ah'...
    1:22 - Sombre horn performance of Gondor theme as Faramir leaves the dinner hall to lead his men to battle. Deep percussion can be heard.
    2:00 - Percussion quickens and choir returns as the Gondorian cavalry mounts...
    2:13 - ... and heads out into the Pelennor. Ascending horn phrase.
    2:20 - The appearance of a familiar 3-note phrase that appears in the themes for the White Rider, Isengard, and the Fellowship among other things.
    2:35 - At Denethor's request, we hear Pippen's voice singing a song of the Shire, the lyrics of which appear to partially come from one of Tolkien's own poems.
    2:58 - High tense strings anticipate tragedy as we cut to Faramir and his men riding towards Osgiliath here.
    3:17 - Percussive beat as the strength of the Witch-King's forces are revealed. This is a suicide mission for the Gondorians.
    3:22 - Shrill flute note is heard as the tension builds.
    3:30 - And the music stops abruptly. Lightly some music is exccluded here as an action scene/slaughter proceeds.
    3:33 - Before Pippen finishes his song and a clarinet resolves the cue.

    There some lovely material here which hopefully is given more extensive development in the film. The pan pipes in the first cue are a lovely unexpected addition. The contrast between Billy Boyd's vocal and the tense orchestral underscore in the second half of the track is a highlight for me - the classic bittersweet feel.


    6. Minas Morgul

    The title seems to be an accurate reflection of the setting of this track, which seems to take sections from three cues set around or near Minas Morgul. The first cue (0:01-0:57) likely covers Frodo, Sam and Gollum's desperate moves to hide as the Morgul beacon is lit up (that green column of light from the preview). The second (0:57-1:28) is probably an excerpt from the ensuing scene where the Morgul army pours out of the dread tower. The third (1:28-end) I would guess is for the scene where Frodo, Gollum and Sam climb up the Straight and Winding Stairs above Cirith Ungol.

    0:01 - Aggressive brass statement of the descending third / Dies Irae motif as the Morgul beacon lights up and Frodo feels the presence of the Witch King, whose winged steed rears above the tower. A rhaita statement of the Mordor/Sauron theme can be heard here.
    0:18 - Curious variation on the Mordor theme here.
    0:32 - Ascending brass phrase sounds as the Descending Third / Sauron motif comes to a halt. The hobbits are barely concealed behind a rock near the bridge to Minas Morgul. We hear variations on the Descending Third in the strings.
    0:43 - Dramatic string/brass passage as the gates of Minas Morgul open to blaring trombones...

    Interesting variations on existing themes for this scene gives us the first real hint of danger in the score since the opening track. In between cues one and two, we likely have a passage of silence as the Witch King senses the Ring bearer nearby.

    0:57 - Some time after the Gates open, we see the Morgul army pouring out into the valley to this brass variation on the Mordor theme.
    1:05 - 5/4 percussion rhythm and a brass theme not unlike the 6 note brass melody for the Isengard theme sounds. The brass melody here is 5 notes, with the three ascending notes from the Isengard and White Rider themes, followed by two further ascending notes. Some posts here have suggested this is a theme for the Witch King.
    1:24 - the last note of brass segues into...

    A variation of the Isengard theme is used here to represent the Morgul host travelling on its way. This parallels the music from the TTT scene of the Uruk army departing from Isengard.

    1:29 - ...the third cue in the track which reprises the music for Caradhras as Arwen makes her way across the Misty Mountains with the surviving dwarfs from the Hobbit, clutching a silmaril at her breast. No, just kidding ... Frodo, Sam and Gollum make their way up through the Mountains of Shadow towards Cirith Ungol. And we hear the Carhadras theme.
    1:43 - The music quickens as Frodo slips on the path and Gollum moves to catch him as the cue ends. I suspect the next thing we hear in this scene is the Temptation of the Ring as Gollum spies the Ring dangling from Frodo's neck.

    The surprising use of the Caradhras theme here is probably not so surprising - quite possibly this theme is a general motif for mountain scenes and isn't restricted to the Misty Mountains. If the scene is the one from the preview where Smeagol is tempted by the Ring, then it creates a nice parallel to the similar scene from FOTR where Frodo slips in the Misty Mountains - leading to Boromir's temptation by the Ring.


    7. The Ride of the Rohirrim

    'The Ride of the Rohirrim' strikes me as likely to be an amalgamation of three cues, two of which almost certainly concern the Rohirrim, while the third is a little more difficult to place.

    0:01 - We have variations on the opening phrase of the Rohan theme for hardanger fiddle, strings, horns and pounding timpanis. This is striking and militaristic in tone, recalling the more strident moments of 'Forth Eorlingas', revealing a side of the Rohirrim we've really only glimpsed.
    0:40 - Pounding drums mark the transition to...
    0:45 - ... horn statement of the Rohan theme, which segues into the second cue at 0:51.

    The herald from Gondor has been heard and the Rohirrim are going to war. Preparations are made at Edoras for the eastward journey. A nice variation on the Rohan theme places stress on their military might rather than their nobility or vulnerability as a people. For the audience, the latter have already been established well and truly in TTT.

    This next cue is not so easy to place based on existing thematic material or the title of the cue:

    0:52 - Pan pipes play a soft melody twice. I believe this material is reprised in 'The Black Gate' for penny-whistle, which suggests it may be a hobbit theme representing Pippen and Merry.
    1:10 - Horns and soft strings join the pipes in a poignant moment, which...
    1:29 - ... segues into a third piece of music here...

    The use of pipes here indicates the possible content of the scene. Previously the pipes are heard in the first half of The Steward of Gondor, which I guess was the scene where Pippen met Denethor. Here I suspect the adventures of Pippen in Minas Tirith continue. Perhaps he meets Faramir, or talks with Gandalf about the desperate situation the quest is in. Pipes will be used later in the score to represent Pippen's adventures, particularly in 'The Black Gate is Open'. Another possibility is that this cue features Merry offering his services to Theoden, although one would expect oboe and hardanger to be present for such a scene.

    The final cue is a little easier to place, probably a portion of the music heard as the rescue force to Gondor sets out from Edoras. Cue the epic vista.

    1:29 - Hints of hardanger are drowned out by swelling orchestra, which builds to...
    1:34 - Horn statement of a variation on Eowyn's theme, which leads into...
    1:41 - Passage of brass over strings and percussion performing a heroic version of the Rohan theme as the riders of Rohan are seen heading east in their thousands.

    A good track with slightly awkward transitions between its various parts.


    8. Twilight and Shadow

    As a long time reader of the books by Tolkien, I occasionally blanch at some of the film-maker's changes. Though he comes off better in the Extended Edition, Faramir should never have taken the hobbits to Osgiliath, even if it did lead the action to a more interesting set. One of the things I've never had trouble with is the depiction of Arwen. And if nothing else, the greater inclusion of her in the storyline has given the trilogy its best music. Line up together Arwen's theme, Aniron, Evenstar, Breath of Life and the other pieces written along the way, and you have a wonderful selection of melodic material for a character whose appearance in the book didn't even merit a song (and even the Barrow Wight's got a song in the book!). 'Twilight and Shadow', for her 'transformation' to mortality, brings her musical arc to a beautiful resolution. I suspect the music was probably written as a single piece and tracked into various parts of the film as editorial decisions demanded.

    0:01 - Soft female/boy chorus over a lush string bed start the cue...
    0:16 - Renee Fleming's ethereal solo enters with a theme not previously heard for Arwen, related somewhat to the 'Evenstar' theme sung by Isabel B.
    1:25 - Strings enter with a somewhat urgent variation on the Evenstar motif, which I guess accompanies the much-seen tracking shot of Arwen reclining on a bed in Rivendell/Lorien. String arpeggios similar to the Rivendell motif are heard underneath the melody. The music slows to...
    2:06 - ... a soft Barry-like passage for strings and oboe .
    2:18 - The Rivendell arpeggios are heard briefly, suggesting final disagreement between Arwen and Elrond.
    2:35 - Renee Fleming intones a beautiful reprise of the Evenstar motif. A backing female/boys chorus adds to the beauty...
    3:13 - ... strings enter, and together with Renee build to a resolution that brings Arwen's story to a close.

    Utterly sublime. Note the absence of the soft version of Aragorn's theme in the TTT album track 'Evenstar' (0:33-1:05), which indicates he's probably not present for this action.


    9. Cirith Ungol

    0:01 - Eerie woodwind (or is it a soft saxophone?) statement of the Ring theme with string murmurings underneath.
    0:10 - As the Ring theme continues, busy strings swirl underneath, hinting at the Shelob material.
    0:31 - Deep brass interupt the Ring theme.
    0:37 - The earlier eerie variation on the Ring theme seems about to be reprised when...
    0:43 - ... a few ascending brass chords lead us into... [a likely edit point between two cues]
    0:52 - ... a reprise of the Hobbit hymn for horns and strings that hasn't been heard so far in this album.
    1:01 - Interesting brass/string variation on the hobbit hymn.
    1:10 - Woodwind joins this variation on the hobbit hymn.
    1:20 - Either a cut to a wide shot of the hobbits ascending the path to Cirith Ungol, or a segue to a different cue covering that action as the Caradhras motif is reprised with a nice swirling string figure.
    1:34 - Brief ominous brass suggestion of the Ring theme, perhaps as the hobbits enter the tunnel of Cirith Ungol.

    This track has probably parts of two cues, and perhaps three in it, but probably those excerpts are all true to the title of the track.


    10. Anduril

    This stunning track features two beautiful surprises. The first is the return of the Rivendell theme, which I thought had been farewelled in TTT's 'Leavetaking' cue. The second is the release on CD of the theme for shimmering brass and strings heard in the background as Aragorn and Boromir talk of him coming to Minas Tirith. In this track, the theme is likely to accompany Aragorn brandishing Anduril or reclaiming some aspect of his kingship. The Rivendell music almost certainly accompanies a scene for the reforging of the sword, possibly in flashback.

    As to whether the track is a single cue, or culled from multiple sources, there's only one obvious edit point that would give away multiple sources.

    0:01 - Horns enter over strings to play the Rivendell theme.
    0:23 - Strings build. A new brass/string figure appears and ...
    0:34 - ...the boys/female chorus swells to a heavenly reprise of the theme that likely accompanies the reforging of the sword. The new brass/string figure is reprised underneath the Rivendell theme several times in this passage, which segues very nicely (and indeed it may be a cue change)...
    1:13 - ... to a reprise of the Gondor/Lorien theme for soft brass over strings which suggest the Rivendell arpeggios (which I call the Heir of Isilduir theme). The theme builds to a beautiful brass statement at 1:29, and a lovely resolution at 1:45.
    1:57 - Choir enters to round off the statement of the theme.
    2:05 - Percussion and brass mark the transition here to a piece of music that I suspect accompanies the Three Hunters as they come to the Paths of the Dead. Some brief percussive ideas and brass are heard. It doesn't really match with the rest of the track, and seems a more likely place than any to divide the track into more than one cue.

    A personal favourite in the soundtrack, and one that betrays the richness of the thematic ideas buried in the FOTR score.


    Part four of my analysis of TTT:EE will be up by Friday. As for this series, I may put up the second half of the track analysis on Sunday.

    [Message edited by franz_conrad on 12-02-2003]

    [Message edited by franz_conrad on 12-03-2003]

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    posted 12-02-2003 01:53 PM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    Hi Franz,

    I wish I had some time guessing with you, but I'm afraid I haven't. I did listen to the soundtrack with this list in my hands and I don't think I disagree with you ^_^!

    Excellent work!

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:24 AM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    quote:
    Originally posted by franz:

    2:23 - Another familiar motif is suggested here - it sounds like the 'Temptation'/'Voice of the Ring'/'Seduction' theme often heard when a character is tempted by the Ring. It may be to recall Isilduir's own temptation by the Ring, or it may be purely a coincidence.


    I listened for the second time during breakfast today, and I think I hear hints of the Lothlorien Theme. It's kind of eastern-flavoured...


    quote:
    Originally posted by Franz

    0:01 - Eerie woodwind (or is it a soft saxophone?) statement of the Ring theme with string murmurings underneath.
    0:10 - As the Ring theme continues, busy strings swirl underneath, hinting at the Shelob material.


    I think this also shows how closely related the Ring Theme and Sauron's Theme are. Because at first, I didn't know if I should call it a variation on the Ring Theme or a variation on Sauron's Theme...

    [Message edited by Jaav on 12-03-2003]

    [Message edited by Jaav on 12-03-2003]

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:36 AM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Franz

    3:33 - Before Pippen finishes his song and an oboe resolves the cue.


    I'm quite sure it's a clarinet ^_^

    quote:
    Originally posted by Franz
    2:06 - ... a soft Barry-like passage for strings and clarinet.

    And I think this is an oboe.


    [Message edited by Jaav on 12-03-2003]

    [Message edited by Jaav on 12-03-2003]

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:51 AM PT (US)     

     Dinko
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    If clarinet and oboe sound so similar, why do orchestras have one of each instead of two of one?
    I get them confused too.

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    posted 12-03-2003 06:40 AM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    Amen, Dinko. I'd been laboring under the illusion that the clarinet had a higher range than the oboe. Is that correct?

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    posted 12-03-2003 12:34 PM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    Well the oboe can go from a 'bes' in the 'small octave' to a 'f' in the 'two-striped octave' and sometimes even to a 'a' in the 'three-striped octave', while the clarinet can go from a 'e' in the 'big-octave' to a 'c' in the 'three-striped octave'. So that basically mean the clarinet can reach higher and lower. It's just the start of the note and the end of it that should let you know which instrument you're playing. A clarinet has a warmer sound and the oboe sounds more kind of 'nasal'... I normally can keep them apart and recognize them quiet good, simply because I used to play the clarinet for a year until I realized it wasn't my thingy, LOL!

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:08 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    I have a funny feeling that a lot of my complete cue list references to oboes were in fact clarinets, and a lot of my clarinets were oboes...

    But having listened to The Steward of Gondor again, I agree that the woodwind towards the end is a clarinet.

    I'm still not sure about Twilight and Shadow - to my ears it could be either, but then I haven't played either!

    [Message edited by franz_conrad on 12-03-2003]

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:10 PM PT (US)     

     redtwo
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    Being an oboe player, myself, there is not much differece in the higher ranges between Oboe and Clarinet. There is, however, quite a few more lower notes that the clarinet can reach. But the double reed of the oboe gives it a different sound. More reedy, I guess you would call it or pehaps, more technically, a bit more of a nasal timbre in its normal register. Also, because of the amount of air that the oboe utilizes, it tends to play long tones or passages. I believe these reasons and the fact that typical orchestrations necessitate the two instruments.

    BTW, I believe that Jaav is right.
    H

    [Message edited by redtwo on 12-03-2003]

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:27 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by redtwo:
    Being an oboe player...

    I believe that Jaav is right.
    H


    The players have spoken! The list shall be amended!

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:30 PM PT (US)     

     redtwo
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    Not that it matters all that much but Pippin is spelled with an 'i' not an 'e' at the end. Just a nitpick from a book reader.

    I love that you have spent time doing this. Do you have links to where you have broken down the other two scores?

    H

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:50 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    I should know about the Pippin thing, as I've read the books about 12 times! It's one of those spelling mistakes I make again and again. Funny - I never mispell Akallabeth, Ghan-buri-ghan, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, etc!

    As for my TTT:EE notes, I've put three parts online so far, covering the first 90 minutes of the film:

    Part One http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/012082.html

    Part Two http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/012097.html

    Part Three http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/012116.html

    Part Four should be ready tomorrow.

    As for FOTR studies, go to: http://groups.msn.com/SMME/musicdiscussion.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=104&LastModified=4675449790213735244

    And then there's this site, which covers FOTR:EE: http://www.geocities.com/a_magpies_nest/id68.htm

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    posted 12-03-2003 01:56 PM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Franz:

    Part Four should be ready tomorrow.



    Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii... Which reminds me again to work on Part Three tomorrow *makes a mental note*

    ~Jelle

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    posted 12-03-2003 02:14 PM PT (US)     

     Dinko
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    Call me crazy, but the second half of The White Tree constantly reminds me of Poledouris. If I didn't know Shore had written it, I would swear it was penned by Poledouris. In fact, the Poledouris score it reminds me most of is The Jungle Book.

    As for oboe vs. clarinet, the nasal part is quite true. I personnally find it most obvious in the mid-lower registers. But at higher registers, don't ask me which is which.

    [Message edited by Dinko on 12-03-2003]

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    posted 12-03-2003 03:14 PM PT (US)     

     Luc
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    Great job!

    It's people like you that get your money worth .

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    posted 12-04-2003 09:46 AM PT (US)     

     ridan
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    i was thinking that the MM theme might be used because the witchking might be departing, and if he is, he might be departing to go see saruman, and if he is, isengard is at the southern foot of the misty mountains.

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    posted 12-04-2003 10:46 AM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ridan:
    i was thinking that the MM theme might be used because the witchking might be departing, and if he is, he might be departing to go see saruman, and if he is, isengard is at the southern foot of the misty mountains.

    *** SLIGHT SPOILER *****

    I don't think it's likely, given what happens in the cut opening scene of this film, that anyone (especially the Witch King) is going to go and see Saruman, at the Misty Mountains or elsewhere. The Carhadras theme is probably generic mountain music.

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    posted 12-04-2003 12:49 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Dinko:
    Call me crazy, but the second half of The White Tree constantly reminds me of Poledouris. If I didn't know Shore had written it, I would swear it was penned by Poledouris. In fact, the Poledouris score it reminds me most of is The Jungle Book.
    [Message edited by Dinko on 12-03-2003]

    Agreed. There were parts of TTT that reminded me somewhat of Les Miserables by Poledouris as well.

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    posted 12-04-2003 12:50 PM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    [QUOTE]Originally Posted By Franz_Conrad:

    2:16 - Violin/violas play a quicker version of a familiar phrase (can't quite put my finger on what it is) and in the background a snippet of Sauron/Mordor's theme is heard. Smeagol has probably put the Ring on and felt the gaze of Sauron's eye. He flees to the mountains.
    [QUOTE]

    Over at the MSN group SMME, Kurt noticed this phrase is the Seduction Theme. And indeed it is, another really nice new rendition of the otherwise mysterious sounding Theme... I wonder who's on screen when that's played... It must be Gollem, right, Michael?

    [Message edited by Jaav on 12-17-2003]

    [Message edited by Jaav on 12-17-2003]

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    posted 12-17-2003 01:13 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    That would be my guess Jelle, but then anyone who has seen the film (Camillu?) would probably be able to give a more certain answer.

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    posted 12-17-2003 01:20 PM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    Camilluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! We need you in here ^_^

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    posted 12-17-2003 01:44 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    If we keep posting we should keep this thread at the top of the recent threads (and there might be a greater chance of him noticing it)... on the other hand... we could just rename this thread: CAMILLU, TAKE A LOOK HERE!

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    posted 12-17-2003 01:46 PM PT (US)     

     Jaav
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    LOL!!

    Before I'm off to sleep...
    A last cry for attention...

    Give me a C,
    Give me a A,
    Give me a M,
    Give me a I,
    Give me a L,
    Give me a L,
    Give me a U,

    CAMILLU

    PS: :S I honestly thought Camillu was a girl...

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    posted 12-17-2003 01:59 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    ***SPOILERS***

    It is definitely the Seduction of the Ring theme, with the Mordor theme as a counterpoint. Having seen the movie only once (without hearing the score first), I don't know when exactly it plays. But the entire opening sequence involves Smeagol and Deagol, so it should be in there somewhere.

    NP: ROTK

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    posted 12-17-2003 04:38 PM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    Thanks Marian!

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    posted 12-17-2003 04:39 PM PT (US)     

     Camillu
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    Hehe...only saw this thread now. Now you've gone and made me feel important..

    (and yes, I am 100% male )

    Can't help you more than Marian did though. I'm not sure, but I think the opening track is a mix of 2 cues - the first half covering the opening minutes of the film, but the action music taken from somewhere else.

    [Message edited by Camillu on 12-18-2003]

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    posted 12-18-2003 08:19 AM PT (US)     

     TV's Frank
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    I would agree with that assessment, Cam. I was trying to pay attention during the film and the Mordor theme in the 2nd half of a "A Storm Is Coming" is not used in the Smeagol prologue. I just never heard it elsewhere either, but it could've been buried under effects.

    [Message edited by TV's Frank on 12-18-2003]

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    posted 12-18-2003 08:49 AM PT (US)     
     

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