quote:

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
Well Hadrian, I was talking about film composers since this is a film score board.

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The score has NO thematic material, it is a drone score completely. A score with a theme occurs throughout a film, whereas in this movie - small elements or musical phrases pop up that may seem thematic but are merely just drone musical phrases that just fall back into the mess of instrumetation.

The composer is really Good, Good at writing drone scores! While that works for Television, and some second rate films (like Darkness Falls), it does not work for Timeline. The movie suffers from a really stale time travel story and from music that does not represent a strong backdrop to the film. This movie's reminds me of two films: THE CORE and Reign of Fire (nothing against Edward Shearmur, he's a real talent)
but both films had a dry story, and drone scores.

Mike and Ryan, you both should really evaluate what constitutes a good score worth writing so much about. This is a forum for the discussion of the art of film music, music worth talking about. Timeline is not worth talking about or even recomending to other readers. Your CD collections most likely are full of CD's by composers like Justin Caine Burnett and Eric Serra.

Composers like Dan Jones (Shadow of the Vampire) or Harold Kloser (The 13th Floor) would have done a better job of scoring Timeline than Brian Tyler! That's only to name a few, but I'm sure you both have never heard of the two. It is really pathetic to see such ignorance!

I'm out!

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Originally posted by jburrows:
....

The score has NO thematic material, it is a drone score completely. ....

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This is what we call "backlash". Example: "my favorite composer, who earned my respect scoring LINK, MOM AND DAD SAVE THE WORLD and ALONG CAME A SPIDER was replaced by this younger guy who obviously sucks because he didn't score LINK, MOM AND DAD SAVE THE WORLD and ALONG CAME A SPIDER!!"

Goldsmith fans are notorious for their life philosophy: Jerry rules and everyone else isn't worth a damn -- John Williams on down. Which as we all know is a load of LINK discs (i.e., garbage).

You see Goldsmith fans are so completely uncomfortable with the success of other composers -- particularly when that composer is a) younger than Goldsmith or b) ever picked up an electric guitar in their life.

Why are they uncomfortable? Probably because Jerry has hammered away for decades, had his successes, but still remains relatively obscured by John Williams' shadow. Can you even imagine the depths of their hatred for the JW? Now, consider what's spinning in their strange little Kirk-loving minds when a composer in his 30s replaces the JG! They might just go and punch a hole through that Jordy LaForge poster on their wall!

It's so painfully obvious that jburrows hasn't heard TIMELINE. Otherwise he'd never dub it a "droning score". If there is on thing TIMELINE is not, it's a "droning score".

I love his Harold Kloser point though. Now that **** is hilarious! I can't see why Paramount forgot about him, seeing as he's scoring smash hits left and right...

quote:

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Goldsmith fans are notorious for their life philosophy: Jerry rules and everyone else isn't worth a damn -- John Williams on down. Which as we all know is a load of LINK discs (i.e., garbage).

You see Goldsmith fans are so completely uncomfortable with the success of other composers -- particularly when that composer is a) younger than Goldsmith or b) ever picked up an electric guitar in their life.

Why are they uncomfortable? Probably because Jerry has hammered away for decades, had his successes, but still remains relatively obscured by John Williams' shadow. Can you even imagine the depths of their hatred for the JW? Now, consider what's spinning in their strange little Kirk-loving minds when a composer in his 30s replaces the JG! They might just go and punch a hole through that Jordy LaForge poster on their wall!

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quote:

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Originally posted by jburrows:
Hornerfan (Mike) and Rkeaveny (Ryan), Mike and Ryan, Ryan and Mike...sounds kind of like Gary and Dick from Saturday Night Live, Anyway you both must be really close, not necesarily in a physical kind of way (like butt buddies or something) but in a musical way. Your oppinions about film music are trash and you should not be posting your thoughts on how Timeline is a great film score. You both want to hear why this score is so bad from me, well here are a few reasons:

The score has NO thematic material, it is a drone score completely. A score with a theme occurs throughout a film, whereas in this movie - small elements or musical phrases pop up that may seem thematic but are merely just drone musical phrases that just fall back into the mess of instrumetation.

The composer is really Good, Good at writing drone scores! While that works for Television, and some second rate films (like Darkness Falls), it does not work for Timeline. The movie suffers from a really stale time travel story and from music that does not represent a strong backdrop to the film. This movie's reminds me of two films: THE CORE and Reign of Fire (nothing against Edward Shearmur, he's a real talent)
but both films had a dry story, and drone scores.

Mike and Ryan, you both should really evaluate what constitutes a good score worth writing so much about. This is a forum for the discussion of the art of film music, music worth talking about. Timeline is not worth talking about or even recomending to other readers. Your CD collections most likely are full of CD's by composers like Justin Caine Burnett and Eric Serra.

Composers like Dan Jones (Shadow of the Vampire) or Harold Kloser (The 13th Floor) would have done a better job of scoring Timeline than Brian Tyler! That's only to name a few, but I'm sure you both have never heard of the two. It is really pathetic to see such ignorance!

I'm out!

Rack'em

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jburrows, this above post shows me one thing. You TRULY are an idiot. First off, you can't even spell the word "opinion" properly. So, if you want to talk about opinions, at least learn to spell the word right first.

Secondly, the musical definition of drone.

1) A long sustained tone.

Since I asked you to point this out before, and you obviously did not, where in the score release of TIMELINE is there a significant amount of long, sustained tones with NOTHING ELSE going on? I'm waiting for your musical genius to appear and prove me wrong on this. So, your efforts, so far, to pass TIMELINE off as a drone score is completely bogus.

Secondly, have you even heard REIGN OF FIRE? Your head must be so far up your ass with your ears stopped up with your own **** if you think that score is a "drone score". My God, what do you call the "Magic Hour" cue in REIGN OF FIRE? How is that cue full of droning? Please, prove how that cue is droning. I'm eagerly awaiting your reply.

In conclusion: your application of the term drone has been proven inaccurate, therefore, your efforts to call TIMELINE (and REIGN OF FIRE) as drone scores have failed. Also, since REIGN OF FIRE sounds, in a way, like something Goldenthal would compose, and, from an earlier post, Goldenthal is a film scoring genius, wouldn't that make him a drone score composer? Ah, yes, contradiction, gotta love it.

Come back and post when you know what you're talking about. Because, quite obviously, you don't.

Mike

PS: I know who Dan Jones and Harold Kloser are. Big deal trying to show your superiority by name tossing obscure, one-hit (so far) composers.

quote:

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Originally posted by rkeaveney:
NP: Directors Cuts 13: "Christmas Drones" (they're version of "Melikilikimaka" is choice!!)

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LOL! jburrows is amusing, in a small child kind of way...

Ryan
NP: Drones, Elia Cmiral
NP: Wings of The Drones, Edward Shearmur
NP: Dronebooth, Harry Gregson-Williams
NP: The Droneheads, David Newman
NP: Drone Away, Alan Silvestri
NP: Romancing The Drone, Alan Silvestri
NP: Drone of Arc, Eric Serra
NP: Forbidden Drone, Danny Elfman
NP: Home Drone, John Williams
NP: Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Drone, John Williams

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkA:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by jburrows:
[b]....

The score has NO thematic material, it is a drone score completely. ....<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the biggest load of B.S. I've seen on this board in a long time. It's obviously posted by someone who has preconceived notions about Brian Tyler, or is still holding a grudge due to Goldsmith's dismissal.[/B]

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Like I said, noses up the composers ass man, noses up the composers ass!

WAH! WAH!

Goldsmith fans are notorious for their life philosophy: Jerry rules and everyone else isn't worth a damn -- John Williams on down.

WAH! WAH!

Hard to decide what's funnier: the hysteria, dishonesty or lack of a decent argument i.e. nothing to stand on.

*****************************************************************

quote:

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Originally posted by Howard L:
OK, now when was the last time Goldsmith wrote a great score???

[b]WAH! WAH!

Goldsmith fans are notorious for their life philosophy: Jerry rules and everyone else isn't worth a damn -- John Williams on down.

WAH! WAH!

Hard to decide what's funnier: the hysteria, dishonesty or lack of a decent argument i.e. nothing to stand on.

*****************************************************************

[Message edited by Howard L on 11-30-2003][/B]

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I'm not going to argue on the first point. However, on the second point, just look at some of the threads over at the Filmscore Monthly message board, or over at the Jerry Goldsmith Online board, to see that there is a large number of Goldsmith fans who HATE Williams, or find Williams's film scores, as a whole, far inferior to what Goldsmith has done. The statement made above, by Ryan I think, is wholly accurate.

Mike

Jeron

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Originally posted by Jeron:
It's a shame this thread has turned into a slugfest. The only thing relevant I'm reading at this point is whether or not Timeline is a 'drone score' -- and even that is being done with bit of cynicism.

Jeron

[Message edited by Jeron on 11-30-2003]

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I'm just waiting for jburrows to actually come out and prove that Timeline (and Reign of Fire) are drone scores, especially since I've now thrown out what the real definition of a musical drone is. I honestly don't think he can.

Does a drone need to be a long sustained tone? No. It could simply be a bunch of notes which taken as a whole create the impression of monotone droning. Applies to Tyler's scores, Children of Dune perhaps being a sole exception. Applies to most of Goldsmith's recent scores. Applies to a bunch of pointlessly noisy, monotonely droning David Arnold scores.

You can have screaming trumpets and blasting trombones playing the same three short notes as loudly and as fast as they can for an hour. They'll make a lot of noise for sure. They won't produce a sustained droning tone, but when people come out of that show, you can bet they'll be left with an impression of having been hit by a droning wall of sound.

Want to get stuck on semantics and proper definitions? Fine. There's obviously nothing more interesting to do around here than to prove whose dictionary has the better definition of a given word. Can't understand the concept of "droning" music applied to pointlessly noisy underscore which has no purpose whatsoever? Fine. Live in your little world of perfectly defined words. Lose all the subtle and not so subtle advantages of metaphors, hyperboles, sarcasm, etc.

Try to figure it out.

I'm sure Dinko can.

If he can figure out that jburrows meant "noisy" when describing TIMELINE as a "drone score", then he's a freaking linguist genius!

Me? I'll just stick with the general meaning of words as what they truly mean, just as a rule of thumb.

Jeeze.

If I am in a museum and I am viewing a Cezanne and a child tells me that he thinks he thinks it’s a fake, how much weight should I give his view?

Now if a renowned expert on impressionism tells me the same thing I much more likely to give credence to his view.

How much weight should I give person’s opinion when who tells me that John Williams (or Jerry Goldsmith) is the greatest film score composer of all and then tells me he’s not interested in and has never heard any score produced before 1977?

Certainly, he is entitled to his view, but his opinion is not worth much to me because his opinion is not informed.

Mr. Burrows has not bothered to offer anything to substantiate his views other than an Ad Hominem attack on the people who challenged him. Not having anything to offer to support your argument but insults is a sure sign that you have nothing to support your views.

Arguing about the semantics of the debate is pointless and redundent. The moment he said that: “Your oppinions about film music are trash and you should not be posting your thoughts on how Timeline is a great film score.“ he immediately proved he has nothing to say.

He goes on to offer his argument that two composers who have only scored a few films could do a better job and that we probably hadn’t heard of them, thus proving how ”pathetic” and “ignorant” we are. I own both those scores and while interesting I see nothing in there that would recommend them over Tyler.

What is his opinion worth?

To him, everything.

To me, nothing.

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Originally posted by JoeInSanDiego:
This guy is truly one of the most exciting musical voices to appear in a very long time (I remember the buzz around Goldenthal back in 92...not much since).

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Hollywood is big enough for Tyler and Goldsmith. I urge everyone to check out LOONEY TUNES and be happy.

Now having said that, I'd like to wrap up the explanation of my stance on Tyler.
As everyone knows, composers start by sounding like others, and eventually they use this to find their own voice, much like Goldsmith did through Alex North. I don't think Brian Tyler has found his own distinct voice--sure he has his own style--but he has yet to cut the mental umbilical cord which will better free him. But when that day comes, that's when I'll start caring when he has a new score coming out.

I've seen most of the movie scored by Brian Tyler (except for The Hunted) and this seems to stand out the most for me. It's almost wallpaper scoring material here. Lots of percussion and brass, with some "tender" moments here and there. Everything was mixed loud, which were distracting a t certain points. Funny thing is how many time I keep thinking to myself about how parts of his score sounded a bit like a Goldsmith score. There's certainly is enough story material to warrant a Goldsmith style, 13th Warrior and First Knight and whatever percussion and brass scoring that you'd expect from Jerry. Brian Tyler's score seems to exude the same amount of muscular action material here to rival Goldsmith's own ideas, and I certainly heard it during the end credits, which was the only time when you could hear everything so clearly .
I'm not a great fan of Goldsmith, nor am I a new fan of Brian Tyler, and given what the movie is, I wouldn't have expected anything great and refreshing from Jerry's rejected score. What we have now is a Goldsmith-esque score from Brian Tyler, whom I think didn't bring anything new to the table beside his own bustling and "refreshing" approach.

(An axe grinds in the night)

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Originally posted by mlw:
This film's score has no character, it's just wallpaper. Without anything to say, it just sounds like most every other score being commisioned to push products per industry standards. Even having an opinion is like more than what's required.

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Next up on Moviemusic: Star Wars, Episode 7: The Cynic Gets Stale.