quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. Lao:
GO TO HELL NEO

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quote:

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AND WACHOWISK BROTHERS!

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I think what REVOLUTIONS was seriously missing was 1 or 2 setpieces on the scale of The Burly Brawl and highway chase from RELOADED. REV takes time to get going (I didn't check my watch but it's a good 30-45 minutes before any kicks an ass) and features not one but two climaxes -- one satisfactory (in Zion) and the other a letdown (the showdown). I know a lot of folks criticized EPISODE I and II (neither of which I like or consider fine examples of filmmaking) for doubling or tripling up their final reels with concurrent action plots, cutting back and forth between each. I think REVOLUTIONS could have benefited from this approach. During the Zion siege, all I could think about was "Where's Neo?" He's nowhere to be found for thirty minutes!

Ah well, there's always BIG FISH!

If you have a hard time understanding or even enjoying the 3 matrix movies it sucks to be you.

If you think the CGI in the matrix movies sucked it sucks to be you.

If you hated anyone of these movies and you went to see the next movie after it you're just stupid and it sucks to be you.

Just because I don't like the other two (on a story level) does not make me any less of an intelligent moviegoer and for someone to say something like that I feel insulted.

Anyone can have an opinion on films and it is just that, their own opinion and they should not be slammed for it.

Bottom line, this film belongs to the people that made it, mainly Andy and Larry Wachowski. As a filmmaker in my own right, I make films about the stories I want to tell, the Wachowski Brothers wanted to tell a story and they told it. What an audience thinks of a film is secondary; it’s the filmmakers’ vision, not the audiences.

--Brian

NP: Revolutions

Watching a movie and seeing how a story unfolds has been lost amongst the masses of film goers as of late. If its not thrust into their face and they arn't force fed the same crap over and over again people start disliking it and saying it sucks immediatly. If its not what is expected or what someone thinks its going to be...it is labled 'crap'

QUOTE:
"Just because I don't like the other two does not make me any less of an intelligent moviegoer and for you to say something like I feel insulted. Your opinion the films is just that and you are entitled to it as others are entitled to their own."
END QUOTE

And my opinion entitles me to say that predictable, whiney, bandwagon, haters suck.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave:
Actually the story went above and beyond what we as movie goers expected after the first movie. People didn't expect the movie to move in the direction that it did and hence their expectations were 'crushed'.

Watching a movie and seeing how a story unfolds has been lost amongst the masses of film goers as of late. If its not thrust into their face and they arn't force fed the same crap over and over again people start disliking it and saying it sucks immediatly. If its not what is expected or what someone thinks its going to be...it is labled 'crap'

QUOTE:
"Just because I don't like the other two does not make me any less of an intelligent moviegoer and for you to say something like I feel insulted. Your opinion the films is just that and you are entitled to it as others are entitled to their own."
END QUOTE

And my opinion entitles me to say that predictable, whiney, bandwagon, haters suck.

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I thought this movie was really poor. Reloaded had its problems and for some reason I thought Revolutions would fix them, but it didn't. The first 45 minutes were dull in the extreme and then there were only really two scenes after that, the first of which went on forever but was rather impressive, the second of which made little or no sense to me and you could hear the deus ex machina being wheeled down from a mile away.

I particularly liked Keanu's "I'll be OK" line after his eyes were gouged out, it reminded me of "It's only a flesh wound" in Small Soldiers.

I always dislike fundamentally silly films that take themselves so utterly seriously and all the cod quasireligious mythology really grated on me. For such a hyped movie, I found it to be a big let down, and that coming from someone who usually finds things to enjoy in films that nobody else likes (I think I was the only person who loved Mission to Mars, one of the few who really liked Attack of the Clones and hell, I even quite liked Tomb Raider 2!)

quote:

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Originally posted by Southall:
...one of the few who really liked Attack of the Clones and hell, I even quite liked Tomb Raider 2!)

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I think we've found our problem right here.

Matrix Relo and Revo are pretentious movies, mexican melodramaticaly movies, with a lot of rain and darkeness to occult a bad CGI.

What the £#cK is the matrix? Oh man, it's just 1 good movie and 2 bad ones.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. Lao:
[B]What the £#cK is the matrix? Oh man, it's just 1 good movie and 2 bad ones.

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LOL! I suck because I think that line is funny as heck. I've never seen a "£" used for comic censoring, although the french franc sign "₣" would have been more revealing!

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave:
Watching a movie and seeing how a story unfolds has been lost amongst the masses of film goers as of late. If its not thrust into their face and they arn't force fed the same crap over and over again people start disliking it and saying it sucks immediatly. If its not what is expected or what someone thinks its going to be...it is labled 'crap'

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Normally I'd agree, except in cases where the movie in question is exactly the same crap over and over again disguised as something different. I have not seen REVOLUTIONS yet, but RELOADED certainly fit the bill. The Wachowskis can go on and on about any philosophical or religious issue they want, and that in and of itself may be very interesting, but somewhere in between the release of THE MATRIX and the making of these sequels, they seem to have lost the fundamental storytelling skills they displayed in the first film (which I still hail as a masterpiece) and their previous film, BOUND (which is also quite good).

For all the endless theoritcal discussion, RELOADED remained a film of little heart and pointless action. And once we're asked to question whether even the real world is real, what point is there in investing emotion in anything that happens there? Why care about the fight if there's a chance it'll all be revealed to be an illusion? That's like killing Spock and then bringing him back to life; as Nicholas Meyer said, it betrays the emotions the audience felt when they lost the character they loved. It cheapens the entire ordeal.

Maybe REVOLUTIONS is a masterpiece. It would make me happy. But it still can't fix the damage done by RELOADED. I no longer care what happens to anyone. In fact, after seeing THE SECOND RENAISSANCE, I think I sympathize more with the machines at this point.

If you want to see a recent film that really isn't the same crap you've been force fed, something that really does defy convention and expectation, go see LOST IN TRANSLATION or BUBBA HO-TEP or rent ALL THE REAL GIRLS.

Kirk
NP - Casanova (Nino Rota)

quote:

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Originally posted by James:
That's like killing Spock and then bringing him back to life; as Nicholas Meyer said, it betrays the emotions the audience felt when they lost the character they loved. It cheapens the entire ordeal.

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I just think the Wachowskis were overwhelmed by getting these giant productions on film and didn't have anything left on the creativity end by the time they got to filming live action, especially on Revolutions. The camera just sits there until the final Super Burly Brawl, when the filmmaking finally crawls back up close to the level of the first movie. But by then you don't care that much. Look how diminished the characters are from the first movie. Morpheus is a co-pilot, Trinity has nothing to say but "I love you" and "I believe in you." The story did NOT go in unexpected directions, it went in the same directions we see in every giant sci fi movie--a big battle with people desperately firing weapons and driving spaceships through tunnels for 20 minutes, and a climactic fistfight (I believe this convention was established in early Star Trek...). There are a few interesting ideas but they are not DRAMATIZED, they are merely stated in flat dialogue--the first movie visualized its ideas in a compelling way.

POSSIBLE HATER QUOTE:
"Man the Sinbad movie wansn't that good I mean I'd seen it all before and then it really started to suck when all of that F^c%ing $#1tty Ray Harryhausen stop motion work started up. I mean you could tell it was fake! THAT GUY SUCKS! Man all I hope is that movie Clash of the Titans doesnt suck because of this stop motion crap."
END POSSIBLE QUOTE

QUOTE:
The story did NOT go in unexpected directions, it went in the same directions we see in every giant sci fi movie.
END QUOTE:

THINGS JEFFBOND DIDNT LIKE THAT MADE THE MOVIE AND CHARACTERS DIFFERENT:

QUOTE:
"Look how diminished the characters are from the first movie. Morpheus is a co-pilot"
END QUOTE

oh no somthing changed hate it hate it!!! If you cant figure out why he's a co-pilot maybe its not the movie that has a problem.

QUOTE:
"The camera just sits there until the final Super Burly Brawl"
END QUOTE

this is true and false at the same time. if you were as clever as you thought you were you would have noticed that the camera work varies greatly from the 'real world' parts of the movie and the 'matrix world' parts of the movie (of all 3 movies actually). its to show contrast from one area to the next, its a visual signal that somthing is different. maybe it was to subtle for you. but since most of the third movie takes place in the 'real world' the dirctors stick to their guns and use more traditional camera angels etc.

what makes this statement untrue is the fact that the whole battle for zion section of this movie is loaded with camera movement.

QUOTE
"The story did NOT go in unexpected directions, it went in the same directions we see in every giant sci fi movie"
END QUOTE

I guess I should have been more clear when I said the movie went in a different direction. Themeaticly the movie went in a different direction then most people thought it should. But that doesn't mean the loss of the conventions of a sci-fi or a kung-fu movie.

I don't think you need a pillow to sleep through movies JeffBond. You slept through this one with your eyes wide open.

Didnt mean to pick on JeffBond here...its just that his response opnend its self up to be made an example of.

NP: Revolutions

quote:

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Originally posted by Hornerfan:
Hey now. If you're going to talk about details of the movie, put up a spoiler warning for those of us who haven't seen it yet! I was just scrolling through the thread, just trying to see a positive/negative response overall, and saw a pretty big one from Southall (had to pick on you, especially since you don't return e-mail!). So yeah, not all of us saw it on opening night. Say SPOLIERS AHEAD next time so we don't look!

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Sorry Mike, I've changed my message. And I DID reply to your emails! Twice, in fact! Does your email server think I'm sending you spam or something and filter me out!?

And I agree with everything Jeff Bond said above... as usual.

Try reading that again slowly.

What I am saying is if you hated the first movie or the second movie and still went and saw the second or third movie you're stupid 'cause you're wasiting your money and time on somthing you dont like. And then you have the balls to blame your stupidity on the creators and the movie itself. Talk about not wanting to take responsibility for your own actions.

EXAMPLE:
Dick sees Matrix Reloaded. Dick hates Reloaded and spouts off about how bad the movie, story, acting, special effcts are. Dick goes and sees Revolutions. Dick is shocked that he hates this movie too and says its the movies fault and the writer/directors fault. No one forced Dick to see Revoluttions when he hated Reloaded. Johnny is there fore stupid and lives up to his name.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dinko:
Wait till X3.0 remakes the Dark Phoenix Saga and brings Jean Grey back to life.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Southall:
(I think I was the only person who loved Mission to Mars, one of the few who really liked Attack of the Clones and hell, I even quite liked Tomb Raider 2!)

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I think I've finally found another person who liked Mission to Mars. Really and truly, it wasn't just the Morricone score you went for (knowing that the maestro has a devoted fan club over at Moviewave) ?

I guess my original post on this thread dances on that razors edge of sarcasm and comentary.

I find it funny that some here will facelessly bash composers, moviemakers, etc. from the saftey of their computers with lazy hatefull phrases. But as soon as someone faces them with that same sort criticism they take up arms and start arguing and screaming such wonderful lines as its my opinion.

I'm not here to change anyones mind. I'm not here to tell you you are actaully stupid. I'm just trying to raise the level of dicusion here a bit. Maybe I took a path less likely to get results on an internet chat board then I should have.

Responses such as JeffBond's, Crono/Kypss, and James' all are up to a level of matureity and debate that sounds reasonable. I may still not agree with what they think. And I may still even respond to statements that they make that I feel are flimsy or less then thought out. But at least they backed up what they were saying with somthing more then GOTO HELL, IT SUCKS!, or THE CGI BLEW!

[Message edited by Dave on 11-06-2003]

quote:

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Originally posted by franz_conrad:
I think I've finally found another person who liked Mission to Mars. Really and truly, it wasn't just the Morricone score you went for (knowing that the maestro has a devoted fan club over at Moviewave) ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Southall:
I loved the movie as a whole, which actually seemed to be about something, was beautifully-made, well-acted, had a stunning use of music and was one of the most satisfying science fiction movies in many, many years. I was always under the impression that I was the only one who thought that...

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I must be on the same page as Southall. I just watched Reloaded two nights ago, and I thought it was wretched. But the ending kind of hooked me, so I had hoped the last one would be better. After reading these posts, I'm avoiding Revolutions.

I will be the first to admit that Reloaded does not stand up well against the original...but wretched...(come on Joan!) There was no possible way to recreate the sense of wonder from the original without going in an entirely different direction...which I don't think would have made sense. So what are we left with...the action portion and fleshing out the world. That is what we got...in unfortunate excess.

I would say that relative to other action/sci-fi films Reloaded is still relatively strong...relative to the original it is not. I tried to make the same point about the Star Wars prequels in the past and was berated for suggesting that among the available sci-fi films out their there still pretty good movies.

quote:

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Originally posted by franz_conrad:
There's no question that I found it better than most science fiction films in the last 10 years with the exception perhaps of Dark City, Solaris, the Matrix and Cypher.

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I haven't seen Mission to Mars, but I would rate "Gattaca" as the best sci-fi movie of the last few years. #2 would be...let's see...maybe "The Arrival".

“I find it odd and humorous...” Quill, giving you a chuckle is my good deed for the
day.

I didn’t go to the theater to see Reloaded because my brother and friends who have
similar tastes to mine, said it was dull. Many of the board members said the same
thing. I’m glad I waited to rent it and didn’t pay full price. You’re right. “Wretched” is
not an accurate adjective. Way too kind. Maybe reprehensible!
Anyway, I hoped the third would be better, but I find members heaping the SAME
criticism on part III as part II, so why pay full price to see more of the same? I believe
they both were made at the same time, so it would be naive to think part three was a
significant improvement. Why put my hand back on the stove twice when I’ve been
working on diminishing my masochistic tendencies. (I already did that when I stupidly
went to see Attack of the Clones.) Maybe I’ll rent it some time when I’m having a bout
of insomnia.

Yes, Mission to Mars is very flawed, and I admit to it being a guilty pleasure of mine,
but at least I didn’t have to dump a bucket of ice water over my head every 5 minutes to
stay awake.

I don’t know if anyone else noticed this, but in Reloaded, I was really frustrated with the
martial arts. Reeves and enemies reminded me of wooden nutcracker soldiers lifting one
stiff arm after another. (Robot jerk arm up, robot jerk arm down over and over and call
it martial arts?)