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Author	Topic: Beyond Borders

Southall Standard Userer	James Horner's score for Beyond Borders will be released on 11 November by Varese Sarabande. James
posted 10-09-2003 04:36 PM PT (US)

DavidOC Standard Userer	This is incredibly rare having Varese release a James Horner score. Would I be right in saying it has been many, many years since their last one (not including the Aliens deluxe release), perhaps as far back as Cocoon:The Return?
posted 10-09-2003 09:37 PM PT (US)

DavidOC Standard Userer	NO, you wouldn't be right, idiot! Class Action was definately AFTER Cocoon:The Return. Check your facts next time!
posted 10-09-2003 10:00 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	that was kinda disturbing....
posted 10-10-2003 12:29 AM PT (US)

workaluk Standard Userer	That's the best news i heard this year,unlike Radio,which only has 26 minutes of music by James Horner,this score is only by James Horner........ NP-Final Fantasy VI
posted 10-14-2003 04:08 AM PT (US)

JoeInSanDiego Standard Userer	David, THAT was funny!! Joe
posted 10-14-2003 09:02 AM PT (US)

Richard Street Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by DavidOC: This is incredibly rare having Varese release a James Horner score. Would I be right in saying it has been many, many years since their last one (not including the Aliens deluxe release), perhaps as far back as Cocoon:The Return? If you don't count the 2001 Club release of PROJECT X. And CLASS ACTION wasn't the last one prior to ALIENS. CLASS ACTION is VSD 5303, but ONCE AROUND is VSD 5308.... NP: JENNIFER 8 (Christopher Young) (74321 12667-2)
posted 10-20-2003 11:47 AM PT (US)

Southall Standard Userer	Here's the tracklist. 54 minutes approx. Ethiopia 1. i (2:14) 2. ii (6:15) 3. iii (2:13) 4. iv (4:13) Cambodia 5. i (2:41) 6. ii (9:56) 7. iii (3:26) 8. iv (4:51) Chechnya 9. i (6:16) 10. ii (4:41) 11. iii (2:22) 12. iv (6:15) Credits include ethnic woodwinds by Tony Hinnigan and vocals by Caroline Kunene. And orchestrations by James Horner. James
posted 10-21-2003 12:58 AM PT (US)

jonathan_little Standard Userer	Wow, Horner can't even come up with track titles anymore, eh? I can't wait for ethnic woodwinds and vocals! Produced by Simon Rhodes and James Horner. "Uhh, yeah, Simon, nice job recording the score. I can't quite waste my time sequencing an album for Varese Sarabande... You know what to do, man. Just use one of my older albums as a template. Take my word for it, it should be pretty easy to come up with an album like that." NP: The Ghost and Mrs. Muir [Message edited by jonathan_little on 10-21-2003]
posted 10-21-2003 07:36 PM PT (US)

Jeron Standard Userer	Don't forget the accent, Mr. Little!
posted 10-21-2003 07:56 PM PT (US)

Andy Lindahl Standard Userer	yawn No matter what the man does, someone have to mock and bash him. So now we're bashing Horner because of his TRACKTITLES also? Please...
posted 10-22-2003 12:28 AM PT (US)

moviescore Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Andy Lindahl: *yawn* No matter what the man does, someone have to mock and bash him. So now we're bashing Horner because of his TRACKTITLES also? Please... I really have to agree with Andy here. Can't you at least wait until you hear the score before you start acting like three-year-olds? I thought that the sequencing and track titles is kind of inventive actually. Always refreshing with an unusual idea. No matter what accent the composer has. mikael
posted 10-22-2003 01:54 AM PT (US)

jonathan_little Standard Userer	Why wait to hear the score? We already know what it sounds like!
posted 10-22-2003 08:10 AM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	quote: Originally posted by Andy Lindahl: So now we're bashing Horner because of his TRACKTITLES also? Please... Andy, it wouldn't be so bad if Horner hadn't cribbed his track titles from the IRIS soundtrack. This cribbing is really getting the man into trouble. He'd better check in ASAP. Go get 'em Horner Dawgs!
posted 10-22-2003 09:32 AM PT (US)

Andy Lindahl Standard Userer	Peter, that would be true if he indeed HAD stolen them from Iris. But they're not the same, are they? Seem to originate from the same idea, yes, but does that mean you're not allowed to write in movements anymore, at all? If you've done it once, you're not allowed to do it again? I'm glad Mozart isn't alive today. He, and the other guys, would have a hard time. "Let's see... 1st Movement: Allegro... damn, been there, done that"
posted 10-22-2003 01:36 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Standard Userer	Fa-la-la-la-lahhh-la-la-lah-lahhhh! Ryan [Message edited by rkeaveney on 10-24-2003]
posted 10-22-2003 02:22 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by rkeaveney: Those track titles look awfully pretentious, don't they? I can see why Horner was writing in "movements" for IRIS, after all, he was channeling the great Vaughn Williams. But who's ghost reigns over BORDERS? Ryan Now, now. We'd have to attack every composer who hoped his music might have a half life beyond the film he composed it for. And frankly everyone from Klaus Badelt up to Philip Glass would be pretentious if the criterion was to put minimalist/pseudo-concert hall titles on the album. As to whose Ghost presides over Beyond Borders, is there any question? Profokiev!!! NP Winged Migrations (Coulais)
posted 10-22-2003 03:54 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	quote: Originally posted by Andy Lindahl: Peter, that would be true if he indeed HAD stolen them from Iris. But they're not the same, are they? That was the joke. Four times out of five when people cry over Horner's "blatant plagiarism of himself (or of others, or of Prokofiev)", it's close... but not quite exactly identical, as is usually the foul call.
posted 10-22-2003 10:25 PM PT (US)

moviescore Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by rkeaveney: I can see why Horner was writing in "movements" for IRIS, after all, he was channeling the great Vaughn Williams. But who's ghost reigns over BORDERS? Ryan As every movement is connected to one setting each, I think Horner's idea here - before I've heard one single note of it - is pretty cool. I really don't understand what your problem is. mikael
posted 10-23-2003 03:04 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	James Horner just sucks. It's hard to take him seriously anymore, no matter what he does. He just has the suckiest record at producing poop, recycling himself, stealing from others claiming he doesn't, etc. It really is funny that he couldn't up with track titles. And poor Simon Rhodes was probably tempted to put track titles such as: Variation on theme from Ivan the Terrible; Reprise of End Credits theme from Spitfire Grill aka Iris; etc. I don't think anyone here needs to hear a note of Horner's latest poop fest. Not after some 25 years of constant, blatant Xeroxing. Is there any nutcase out there who is seriously convinced that Horner will do something we heaven't heard before? That he won't steal from some one else this time? Maybe this time we'll get a reorchestration of Michail Ippolitov-Ivanov's Caucasian Sketches. I don't think he's stolen that before, and this would be the almost perfect occasion to do so.
posted 10-23-2003 05:58 AM PT (US)

moviescore Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Dinko: James Horner just sucks. It's hard to take him seriously anymore, no matter what he does. He just has the suckiest record at producing poop, recycling himself, stealing from others claiming he doesn't, etc. Look who's talking! Who is recycling himself now? quote: Is there any nutcase out there who is seriously convinced that Horner will do something we heaven't heard before? That he won't steal from some one else this time? Well, let's wait and see before we make any judgements, shall we? mikael
posted 10-23-2003 08:10 AM PT (US)

CoachUSAgal Standard Userer	I am actually looking forward to this CD. And more so of the movie, I love Angelina!
posted 10-23-2003 08:27 AM PT (US)

Christopher Standard Userer	Did time come to a halt in 1997 in this forum? After a bit of a haitus, I check back to see what the hot topic is...and its STILL Horner-bashing??? Aye yaye yaye. Back to the basement, I go.
posted 10-23-2003 08:44 AM PT (US)

jonathan_little Standard Userer	Christopher, actually this message board goes in cycles. It's something like this: Bash Horner Praise Zimmer/crew Announce that Brian Tyler is a God Notice that Bruce Broughton still doesn't get enough work Ignore anything that isn't from <current year> Intrada deletes good CDs from its catalog and replaces them with stuff that doesn't sell. Goto 1
posted 10-23-2003 10:34 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by moviescore: Look who's talking! Who is recycling himself now? Sorry, that's a non-argument. My recycling is a direct result of Mr. James Xeroxer's usual tactics. You cannot accuse me of recycling my criticism when said criticism is a result of a repeated offense. Let me put it this way: Driver drives above state speed limit. On two occasions he drives above the limit. He gets caught two times. He gets fined two times. You can't hold it against the cops for giving him twice the same ticket at two different mile markers. But you can certainly criticise the driver for speeding twice. Horner is the offender here. Any recycled criticism regarding him is but a reaction to his gross laziness. Attack the cause, not the consequence. quote: Well, let's wait and see before we make any judgements, shall we? mikael No. Sorry. Everything has it's limits. I've gotten pissed at Ryan when he pulled a mean Horner joke a couple of years back. I've argued with Jeron & others when I've defended Horner. Enough is enough. There comes a point where I simply lose my naive optimism. In 1998 I would have said "Sure, let's give him one more chance." I would have said the same thing in 1999. Then maybe again a year later. Then I might have defended Horner in 2001 depending on the occasion. By 2002 I had enough. Now, I won't give him any benefit of doubt. He's guilty by default, and to hell with the right to a fair trial. [Message edited by Dinko on 10-23-2003]
posted 10-23-2003 05:20 PM PT (US)

Lancelot Standard Userer	You really blow up your own arguement there, by effectively saying "The speeding driver is going to start his car tomorrow, so let's fine him whenever he starts up his car, because he's going to speed anyway...." (But to hell with this topic, and to hell with debating anymore with anyone.)
posted 10-24-2003 03:49 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	Let me go further. If a speeding driver does it all the time, he shouldn't be fined the moment he starts his car, he should have his car removed.
posted 10-24-2003 06:47 AM PT (US)

rkeaveney Standard Userer	Horner's score was cited not once but twice in the Toronto Star's review of BEYOND BORDERS. Ryan [Message edited by rkeaveney on 10-24-2003]
posted 10-24-2003 09:59 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	From The Toronto Star: quote: "My God," you can almost hear her thinking � if only that James Horner wall-of-schmaltz would stop tumbling long enough to let you � "The whole country's got an eating disorder!" quote: On the soundtrack, James Horner's wall-of-schmaltz music score tumbles like Jericho's wall behind her, propelling Sarah toward the horror like a gazelle fleeing a fire on the plain. Wall of schmaltz? Yeah, that's Horner.
posted 10-24-2003 10:33 AM PT (US)

Scorro Standard Userer	Been listening to "Legends Of The Fall" lately. Not sure where J Horner acquired that music from, but I sure do like it.
posted 10-24-2003 02:23 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Standard Userer	I was watching "ABC WorldNews Now" at about 3am this morning and the critic on there blasted Jolie and the film but didn't mention the score. Then I visit CNN's website today and Paul Clinton calls the film "brilliant" and describes Angelina Jolie as "terrific" and gives an "Oscar-worthy performance." Makes me wonder...
posted 10-24-2003 03:00 PM PT (US)

Jeron Standard Userer	Revelation: As with everything, some people are gonna love it, some people are gonna hate it.
posted 10-24-2003 03:40 PM PT (US)

Bond1965 Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Dinko: From The Toronto Star: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>"My God," you can almost hear her thinking � if only that James Horner wall-of-schmaltz would stop tumbling long enough to let you � "The whole country's got an eating disorder!"<HR size=1></blockquote> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1> On the soundtrack, James Horner's wall-of-schmaltz music score tumbles like Jericho's wall behind her, propelling Sarah toward the horror like a gazelle fleeing a fire on the plain.<HR size=1></blockquote> Wall of schmaltz? Yeah, that's Horner.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Having seen the film tonight, that comment is like most of the film reviewer's film music opinions...BULLSHIT. Film Music fans could compair this situation with what we heard from critics about Randy Newman's score to "Seabiscuit" as being too emotional and over the top. Yet most film music fans felt once they heard it that it wasn't emotional and sweeping enough. I'm sure the early reviews about "Master and Commander" will say how overpowering the score is in the film, but I'm already hearing film music fan reviews saying it isn't sweeping and heroic enough. As for Horner's "Beyond Borders" score, I was surprised at how much this felt like a throwback to his electronic influenced scores (i.e. "Where The River Runs Black" and "Vibes") It has the ethnic feel thanks to Tony Hinnigan's pipes, but also uses a choir and percussion at times for more powerful sequences. It actually is a very restrained score and quiet a lot of the time. It's far from "wall to wall schmaltz." It's a shame when a critic wants to trash a film, he goes for the composer and the score without any real thought about what's actually there. James P.S. The Robert Schumann piece in the film is performed by Angelina Jolie and is part of the storyline. On the CD it is performed by Randy Kerber. [Message edited by Bond1965 on 10-24-2003]
posted 10-24-2003 11:10 PM PT (US)

Lancelot Standard Userer	I've noticed that more recently, critics have begun to comment upon the score, often negatively, when they feel they need a "substantial" arguement--without even wholly appreciating its' content or capability. (Not yet once have I read a criticism that says "The film's saving grace is ~'s score..." or "Though the film is lacking, you may enjoy the beautiful score by [some guy's name I read in the credits]...")
posted 10-25-2003 04:37 AM PT (US)

Hornerfan Standard Userer	After seeing the film myself this evening, I will also chime in and say that the Toronto Star's reviewer's comments on the score were wrong. Horner's score is one of the most restrained, subdued efforts I have heard from him in a LONG time. There are many cues throughout the score that are rather low-key, and there are multiple stretches of unscored film. Wall of schmaltz, this certainly is not. And, while there are throwbacks to some of Horner's earlier, more synthesized scores, they are by no means direct 'rip-offs'. Granted, I did here a couple of lifts here and there, including one particularlly wonderful use of a motif from "The Darkside of the Moon" in APOLLO 13, but the score was predominantly original, and excellent, to boot. The end credits suite is of particular goodness. Mike
posted 10-25-2003 09:01 PM PT (US)

Jeron Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Hornerfan: ...but the score was predominantly original, and excellent, to boot. The end credits suite is of particular goodness. Oh come on, how are we supposed to take you seriously when you've got a username like "Hornerfan" ??!?!? ;-) hehe j
posted 10-27-2003 03:02 AM PT (US)

John Baxter Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Hornerfan: After seeing the film myself this evening, I will also chime in and say that the Toronto Star's reviewer's comments on the score were wrong. Horner's score is one of the most restrained, subdued efforts I have heard from him in a LONG time. There are many cues throughout the score that are rather low-key, and there are multiple stretches of unscored film. Wall of schmaltz, this certainly is not. And, while there are throwbacks to some of Horner's earlier, more synthesized scores, they are by no means direct 'rip-offs'. Granted, I did here a couple of lifts here and there, including one particularlly wonderful use of a motif from "The Darkside of the Moon" in APOLLO 13, but the score was predominantly original, and excellent, to boot. The end credits suite is of particular goodness. Mike Well, isn't it refreshing to know that the Goldsmith throwbacks are still out there having a go at Horner. We all know that Goldsmith is washed up. That's why he couldn't cut it on Timeline. Me? I'm looking forward to hearing Beyond Borders, along with The Missing and Radio. If you don't like Horner, then don't listen to his music. Leave that up to the people who do and will continue to do so. Go back to your little Goldsmith scores
posted 10-27-2003 09:22 AM PT (US)

John Baxter Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Hornerfan: After seeing the film myself this evening, I will also chime in and say that the Toronto Star's reviewer's comments on the score were wrong. Horner's score is one of the most restrained, subdued efforts I have heard from him in a LONG time. There are many cues throughout the score that are rather low-key, and there are multiple stretches of unscored film. Wall of schmaltz, this certainly is not. And, while there are throwbacks to some of Horner's earlier, more synthesized scores, they are by no means direct 'rip-offs'. Granted, I did here a couple of lifts here and there, including one particularlly wonderful use of a motif from "The Darkside of the Moon" in APOLLO 13, but the score was predominantly original, and excellent, to boot. The end credits suite is of particular goodness. Mike Well, isn't it refreshing to know that the Goldsmith throwbacks are still out there having a go at Horner. We all know that Goldsmith is washed up. That's why he couldn't cut it on Timeline. Me? I'm looking forward to hearing Beyond Borders, along with The Missing and Radio. If you don't like Horner, then don't listen to his music. Leave that up to the people who do and will continue to do so. Go back to your little Goldsmith scores
posted 10-27-2003 09:23 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by John Baxter: If you don't like Horner, then don't listen to his music. Leave that up to the people who do and will continue to do so. Go back to your little Goldsmith scores Now see that would be great. If only we could pick and choose who scores the version of the movie that we see... No such luck...
posted 10-27-2003 09:49 AM PT (US)

Jeron Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by John Baxter: We all know that Goldsmith is washed up. That's why he couldn't cut it on Timeline. That's laughable. You couldn't be further off the mark, dude. But nice try!!
posted 10-27-2003 01:29 PM PT (US)

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