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  MRS RONALD STEIN vs MARSHALL MATHERS (Eminem)

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Topic:   MRS RONALD STEIN vs MARSHALL MATHERS (Eminem)

 PeterK
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From The Smoking Gun:

"SEPTEMBER 16--A 70-year-old California grandmother is suing Eminem over the rapper's unauthorized sampling of a musical piece authored by the woman's late husband, a veteran movie composer. In a federal court lawsuit filed last month, Harlene Stein alleges that the rap star (real name: Marshall Mathers) used a piece of one of her husband Ronald's compositions on "Guilty Conscience," a cut from the rapper's acclaimed 1999 debut "The Slim Shady LP." The Stein instrumental composition at the lawsuit's center is titled "Pigs Go Home" and is part of his score for Getting Straight, a 1970 film starring Elliott Gould and Candice Bergen (what's next, 50 Cent sampling "Papa, Can You Hear Me?" from Yentl?). Stein's lawsuit, a copy of which you'll find below, also names producer Dr. Dre (real name: Andre Young) and Eminem's music publishing companies and record label as defendants. While "The Slim Shady LP" liner notes mention that "Guilty Conscience" contains "an interpolation" from "Pigs Go Home," Ronald Stein, who died in 1988, is not credited as the piece's composer. Nor has his widow, a grandmother of five who inherited Stein's publishing rights, been paid for the use of "Pigs Go Home" (which sounds like something NWA should have sampled). While her lawsuit does not specify monetary damages, Stein could see quite a windfall since Eminem's first album sold nearly five million copies. (9 pages)"


Wow!

[Message edited by PeterK on 09-16-2003]

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posted 09-16-2003 07:19 PM PT (US)    ip  

 TimT
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Why is a 70 year old grandmother listening to Eminem?, and since when do film composers own thier own music?

[Message edited by TimT on 09-16-2003]

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posted 09-16-2003 10:09 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Jeff78
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I think she is just doing because she needs money or something. Alot of rappers sample some type of old music. And they always put it in the credits. She probably has nothing better to do.

Jeff

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posted 09-17-2003 12:34 AM PT (US)    ip  

 BMikeJ
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Yeah, you're probably right. She probably doesn't care one bit about her husband's legacy. Seventy years old and still diggin' for gold...

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posted 09-17-2003 02:16 AM PT (US)    ip  

 Dinko
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Go Granny!

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posted 09-17-2003 05:41 AM PT (US)    ip  

 James
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Well, Ronald Stein wasn't credited as the composer of the cue in the song's credits, and if what the lawsuit says about the publishing rights is true, then legally Mrs. Stein should be getting money for any use of the music.

So I say go for it, and I wish her all the best.

Kirk

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posted 09-17-2003 07:44 AM PT (US)    ip  

 Jeff78
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quote:
Originally posted by BMikeJ:
Yeah, you're probably right. She probably doesn't care one bit about her husband's legacy. Seventy years old and still diggin' for gold...

You got it!

Jeff

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posted 09-17-2003 09:18 AM PT (US)    ip  

 Gae
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Great to see Ronald Stein's music causing so much interest in today's music world!!

Gae

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posted 09-17-2003 02:27 PM PT (US)    ip  

 El Cid
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Very amusing. I'm rooting for granny.


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posted 09-17-2003 05:33 PM PT (US)    ip  

 rkeaveney
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff78:
I think she is just doing because she needs money or something. Alot of rappers sample some type of old music. And they always put it in the credits. She probably has nothing better to do.

Jeff


The point is that whoever owns the rights to the music should be fairly compensated, regardless of their age or general lack of things to do.

You don't think Eminem would be pounding down someone's door if he was sampled and not compensated?

Ryan

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posted 09-17-2003 05:55 PM PT (US)    ip  

 firefox
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In the "old days", composers often owned their own music publishing companies and many of them owned some of their film scores. Things are different now, but back then there were many film contracts that permitted the composers to own the publishing of their film music (they didn't own the actual recording -- just the composition).

Also, there are legal ways for widows or widowers to get back their husband's or wive's copyrights from the original owners depending upon the circumstances of that particular case. The Library of Congress recognizes these, and they are part of the copyright code. So just because music was written for a film doesn't tell you who actually owns the music. That would be up to legal minds to determine.

I remember reading a thread on this board a few months ago in which it was stated that Ronald Stein's widow was deeply involved in her husband's music. Somebody on this board had interviewed her about her husband's music for "Film Score Monthly" or some other magazine. Or was that post on the FSM board? Anyone remember?

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posted 09-17-2003 06:07 PM PT (US)    ip  

 PeterK
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This board, firefox. Said thread was rejuvenated not too long ago.... we've been talking more about Ronald and Harlene Stein than James Horner. Unbelieveable!

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posted 09-17-2003 06:32 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Wedge
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For shame, those of you who are flippantly attacking the character of a woman you know nothing about. I'm the one who interviewed Harlene and wrote that Stein article. This kind of behavior is thoughtless and hurtful.

I'm no lawyer, so I can't say how a judge will interpret the suit, but Harlene is well within her rights to file. She'd be foolish NOT to. Imagine if one of you composed and copyrighted a little guitar or piano riff and held the copyright ... then Eminem used it in a song that made millions. Before you engage in mean-spirited remarks, read the actual text of the lawsuit:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/harlene1.html

Harlene appears (APPEARS -- again, I'm no lawyer) to be acting within her well-documented contractual rights. At first glance, I'd guess this was a case of sloppy business on the part of Eminem & Co. Sure, frivolous lawsuits against celebrities are a genuine problem. But does that mean that celebrities can't be held just as accountable as anyone else when they DO cross the line?

Could I be cynical and assume the worst, that Harlene is trying to pull a fast one? Sure. But the time I spent talking to her, what I know of her personal history, her advocacy for prostate cancer awareness -- not to MENTION the fact that we currently have no evidence against her -- I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

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posted 09-17-2003 08:43 PM PT (US)    ip  

 BMikeJ
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Wedge, I'm totally in her corner. My comments were made because I couldn't believe my eyes at what I had just seen written.

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posted 09-17-2003 11:35 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Graham Watt
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Right, some fairly tasteless comments above. Hope it all turns out OK for Mrs Stein.

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posted 09-20-2003 03:23 PM PT (US)    ip  

 jonathan_little
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I have a question:

What sort of lamer gives their "entity of unknown form" a name like "AIN'T NUTHIN' GOIN' ON BUT *****IN'?"

[Message edited by jonathan_little on 09-20-2003]

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posted 09-20-2003 03:43 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Tom Scofield
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I'm all for Mrs. Stein, but I think it's going to be a repeat of the Les Baxter v. John Williams suit about the "E.T." theme being lifted from Baxter's seminal 50's album, THE PASSIONS. Henry Mancini, of all people, was the whistle blower here, but the suit only caused Baxter much misery going up against MCA, getting him black-balled in Hollywood and he didn't work for almost 10 years. He died in 1996 before his appeal could be played out.

I've always given Williams the benefit of the doubt, be he admitted knowing the song ("Joy") well and had even performed it several times over the years. They sound damned near identical to me, but who really knows?

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posted 09-24-2003 04:42 PM PT (US)    ip  

 firefox
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If you've been following the story, you would realize this is not a case where somebody claims there is a similarity of music. The song itself credits the film cue as being a part of the song. Only the writer (Stein) wasn't credited -- the only people credited were Dr. Dre and Eminem. So it will be NOTHING like the case you referred to above.

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posted 09-24-2003 07:58 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Tom Scofield
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I get your point firefox, this just brought back memories of the Baxter case.

Perhaps I should compare it to the case where Baxter was sampled by The Beastie Boys on one of their albums. However, that case was worked out with more or less no bad feelings in the end. In fact, you can hear the Beastie Boys piece on Baxter's website Lesbaxter.com.

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posted 09-25-2003 02:59 AM PT (US)    ip  

 
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