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Author	Topic: Status of MV composers.... HATERS STAY THE HELL AWAY!

HadrianD Standard Userer	link It's dated to last October, so take that into consideration. [Message edited by HadrianD on 07-21-2003]
posted 07-21-2003 12:47 AM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	As an admirer of the MV crowd, I would greatly like to see this link, but it doesn't seem to work...
posted 07-21-2003 12:53 AM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	had two http:// too many.... fixed
posted 07-21-2003 12:59 AM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	I was disappointed to learn that Rona was responsible for a large chunk of BHD - disappointed, because I'd largely thought of that as Zimmer's best work in recent years. My guess is that Zimmer's contributions were largely the Still theme, the soldier's theme, and that aggressive Somali attack motif you hear for the first time in Hunger. Anyone know which of the composers assigned was responsible for the excellent action setpieces Synchrotone and Tribal War? NP From Hell (Jones)
posted 07-21-2003 03:26 AM PT (US)

pietari Standard Userer	Rona only did 15 minutes of music for BHD. There was a good article in FSM about the composition process for the film. I suspect Zimmer came up with the main melodic ideas, which were then improvised on by the band and various orchestrators.
posted 07-21-2003 05:31 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	All caps is evil, no need to shout in the title. Didn't Mancina leave MV because of the same reasons as Rona? [Message edited by Dinko on 07-21-2003]
posted 07-21-2003 06:02 AM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Standard Userer	I think Paul Simon was responsible for the Black Hawk Down theme, personally. Shaun
posted 07-21-2003 09:24 AM PT (US)

Beatty Standard Userer	I don't hate and I didn't stay away ... oh wait, I do too hate. Quite a bit, and the only reason I'm here is because I was asked to stay away. I don't like the Zimmer style. At all. Ruins movies for me. Almost always clumsy, lazy dreck. There are exceptions, I guess.
posted 07-21-2003 11:17 AM PT (US)

Ron Pulliam Standard Userer	Gosh! I just have to laugh a little...giggle a bit...and guffaw some. I thought MV stood for Milli Vanilli and that you guys were freakazoids or something. Now that I know it's the initials for corporate stagnation, I'll mosey on off....
posted 07-21-2003 04:26 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	"Synchrotone" and "Tribal War" are Hans Zimmer's. Jeff Rona didn't do that much music for Black Hawk Down. The end credits to the film list the cues done by additional composers... Rone only did the "Bakara" piece; Zimmer played bass on that one.
posted 07-21-2003 07:03 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: "Synchrotone" and "Tribal War" are Hans Zimmer's. Jeff Rona didn't do that much music for Black Hawk Down. The end credits to the film list the cues done by additional composers... Rone only did the "Bakara" piece; Zimmer played bass on that one. Yeah but those aren't acurate, he also did the music when both Black Hawks crash. The end credits... credits, are mostly just because of contract issues. Clayton
posted 07-21-2003 08:08 PM PT (US)

Dana Wilcox Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Ron Pulliam: Gosh! I just have to laugh a little...giggle a bit...and guffaw some. I thought MV stood for Milli Vanilli and that you guys were freakazoids or something. Now that I know it's the initials for corporate stagnation, I'll mosey on off.... Wow, well, uh, DUDE!! RONN!! Shows you don't know CRAP about like good movie music and stuff. So um tell me like, din't you ever hear that GLADIATOR music, I bet. Zimmer read all these books and stuff and did this reserch and so then he used that sythnesizer in it and well it was like an ACTUAL synthesizer that was REALLY used in the Roman times. Yah sure, laugh!! Then he had this groovy babe and I guess there was suppose to be a song or whatever but she like din't know the words or I guess maybe, anyways so she just kind a like hummed along with the music. IT ROCKED MAN!! So like cut out the CRAP!!
posted 07-21-2003 09:04 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by scoreguy16: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by sean: [b]"Synchrotone" and "Tribal War" are Hans Zimmer's. Jeff Rona didn't do that much music for Black Hawk Down. The end credits to the film list the cues done by additional composers... Rone only did the "Bakara" piece; Zimmer played bass on that one.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah but those aren't acurate, he also did the music when both Black Hawks crash. The end credits... credits, are mostly just because of contract issues. Clayton[/B] Where did you hear all this?
posted 07-21-2003 11:25 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	D quote: Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford: I think Paul Simon was responsible for the Black Hawk Down theme, personally. Shaun I guess whenever we need you to contribute, we can just post the word "MV" and you'll be there get a life.
posted 07-21-2003 11:27 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Dana Wilcox: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Ron Pulliam: [b]Gosh! I just have to laugh a little...giggle a bit...and guffaw some. I thought MV stood for Milli Vanilli and that you guys were freakazoids or something. Now that I know it's the initials for corporate stagnation, I'll mosey on off....<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Wow, well, uh, DUDE!! RONN!! Shows you don't know CRAP about like good movie music and stuff. So um tell me like, din't you ever hear that GLADIATOR music, I bet. Zimmer read all these books and stuff and did this reserch and so then he used that sythnesizer in it and well it was like an ACTUAL synthesizer that was REALLY used in the Roman times. Yah sure, laugh!! Then he had this groovy babe and I guess there was suppose to be a song or whatever but she like din't know the words or I guess maybe, anyways so she just kind a like hummed along with the music. IT ROCKED MAN!! So like cut out the CRAP!! [/B] I dont' know whether to laugh or be annoyed...
posted 07-21-2003 11:29 PM PT (US)

pietari Standard Userer	I wouldn`t be annoyed. If people are that bored with their lives that every time someone wants to discuss MV, they have to come up with something as witty and original as that, I`d just let them get on with it and ignore them. It`s basically another form of Daniel2-itis.... Anyway, anyone know when HGW is actually leaving? [Message edited by pietari on 07-22-2003]
posted 07-22-2003 01:02 AM PT (US)

SPQR Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by pietari: I wouldn`t be annoyed. If people are that bored with their lives that every time someone wants to discuss MV, they have to come up with something as witty and original as that, I`d just let them get on with it and ignore them. It`s basically another form of Daniel2-itis.... This is a test of the Emergency Reality Check System: Get some perspective ........Get some perspective..... Get some perspective ........Get some perspective..... Get some perspective ........Get some perspective..... Get some perspective ........Get some perspective..... We now return to the original broadcast already in progress: MVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMV MVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVVMVMMV MVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVMVVMVMVMVMVMVVMVMV So, do you think these guys are deserting the ship because they didn't get enough of the action/recognition. Or, are contracts up and there's more money to be made working independantly? The working "under the shadow" is a polite way of putting something. [Message edited by SPQR on 07-22-2003]
posted 07-22-2003 01:50 AM PT (US)

pietari Standard Userer	Glad to see that you`re spending your time well. Keep up the good (not to mention very funny!) work.
posted 07-22-2003 03:08 AM PT (US)

Lancelot Standard Userer	Well at least someone's behaving politely in all this....
posted 07-22-2003 06:51 AM PT (US)

JoeInSanDiego Standard Userer	I was having a very interesting conversation about this subject yesterday...and while what I am about to say does not belong in a thread devoted to Return of the King (which I cannot WAIT for and agree that Annie Lennox's vocals would provide a wonderful addition to Shore's work), I shall say it anyway because this is what the thread has boiled down to. Why is the MV phenomenon so successful? Regardless of whether you like the music or not...it is here. And I believe it is here to stay for a while. Why? What makes it successful? Is it that MV can be hired for a film for a set amount of money and multiple composers can work together to create a cohesive score? I believe that is part fo it. For less money, a producer can hire multiple composers to create music is less time. More time can therefor be spent in the editing and other post production processes. Further, in the case of MV, since each composer is not responsible for, say, 90-100 minutes fo music per film, they can actually be hired for MORE films...thus more money is brought in for the MV coffers and more recognition is given to the composers whose name appears on the credits (not many filmgoers actually stay for the end credits and watch the "additional music" notation go by) of the numerous films they are initially hired for. Mancina and Rona both left to pursue their own careers outside of MV and both are successful and accomplished composers in my opinion. MV, it seems, is a launching pad for composers to go out and get their own work. In this regard, I am glad that MV exists. In this regard, it bothers me that MV exists. MV has become the new training ground for composers. Classical training has gone out the window (except for newbies such as Brian Tyler...and one can instantly tell the difference between a Tyler score and a Badelt score in complexity of arrangements and other classical ideas). Personally, I enjoy a beautiful theme. Badelt gave us a gorgeous theme for Time Machine. The rest of the score worked well in the film, but was "simple" in nature. Tyler's score for Children of Dune was extremely complex and detailed. Films, movies, in this day and age are different. No longer do we see such introspective films as Patton, A Patch of Blue or To Kill a Mockingbird. Such films nowadays would require arthouse openings and word of mouth to reach the general public. Today, and I believe I have said this before, we have Jerry Bruckheimer, who is the McDonald's of entertainment. I have sat and enjoyed Bruckheimer films...but they are, each and every one, empty and devoid of heart. They are FUN...they are QUICK PACED...they are for people who want to escape reality for two hours and not worry about what effect it may or may not have had on them. Films that make people think, make them sit and debate the issues raised in them are no more. Even arthouse-type films such THE HOURS, while generating interest and are, indeed, wonderful films, are empty of any long-lasting emotional impact. When was the last movie that made people TALK?? Adrian Lyne had a habit of doing this over and over again. Nine and a Half Weeks, Fatal Attraction, Indecent Proposal, Jacob's Ladder and Lolita all sparked a certain BUZZ amongst film goers...Who is out there, now, who can make a film that does as much? Further, to talk about Trek films for a quick moment, I believe Trek has "died" for the same reason. Producers are stuck in the Roddenberry universe. They quote, often, how much they intend to stick to the Roddenberry ideals of the future. While this is comendable, it should alert anyone who listens that they are stuck in the past. Times have changed. To quote a certain Stephen King character, the world has moved on. And so has the movie industry. MV, Bruckheimer and others have moved with it. They give audiences of today what they want (for the most part). Those of us who remember a different time, a time we adhere to as being richer, better overall, are having trouble changing. Do I like MV? Yes and no. Do I like Bruckheimer, et. al. Yes and no. Do I like Goldsmith, Schaffner, Wilder, Herrmann, Korngold...unequivocably YES! Peter Jackson and Howard Shore are making a film (in three parts...this is a TRUE epic folks!!) that harkens back to the films of old. This is why I think it appeals to everyone. It reminds us, visually and musically, of old times and new and reminds us why movies...and entertainment in general...should always be revered and indulged in. Now, lets hear it for some SMALL movies with as much heart and soul as The Lord of the Rings. Most anticipated film: The Game of Our Lives, by David Anspaugh...a director whose films are brimming with heart. (Hoosiers and Rudy were both incredible motion pictures.) NP: Magic (Goldsmith)
posted 07-22-2003 11:00 AM PT (US)

SPQR Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Lancelot: Well at least someone's behaving politely in all this.... ...said GOD.
posted 07-22-2003 02:21 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	I am pretty sure this thread wasn't started to debate whether people like MV or not. So if you don't, that's fine, I couldn't care less, but if you could keep from causing problems, that would be great. If you love MV, this thread is probably a good one for you to post in. I myself love MV, but that's not the point. I found the interview interesting. Did you guys know at jeffrona.com you can buy autographed scores of his for $12.99? They're even unreleased. I have a question, did Pirates of the Caribbean use Black Hawk Down as a temp score? Clayton NP>Pirates of the Caribbean
posted 07-22-2003 02:24 PM PT (US)

Ron Pulliam Standard Userer	Dana Wilcox: About your comment "Cut out the CRAP"???!!! BITE ME! Joe in San Diego: Just what is it, exactly, that makes MV a huge success? I've not seen anything written about them that indicates audiences have "accepted" them any more than they accepted the way things were before MV was formed. I'm guessing you mean "the suits" that know nothing about music are all clamoring for their services. (Next big advancement in motion pictures: Another conglomerate formation of writers.) They haven't actually advanced the art or process of film music, have they? They've just formed a little group that has now dispersed under the aegis of Hans Zimmer whose clout is decidedly mixed...and whose music is not exactly selling like hot cakes. Just curious.... [Message edited by Ron Pulliam on 07-22-2003] [Message edited by Ron Pulliam on 07-22-2003]
posted 07-22-2003 07:06 PM PT (US)

Lancelot Standard Userer	What the hell? If you get to play "Emergency Reality Check Network", I get to play God. [Message edited by Lancelot on 07-22-2003]
posted 07-22-2003 09:27 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	Man, if this board was ikonboard, I'd have closed this thread along time ago. Geesh people, I didn't ask for a debate here. Heck, I even told you mofos who hate MV to stay away. I wasn't asking for your goddamm opinions. But then the mofo MV bashers still participated and ruin this thread cause they couldn't just leave thing alone. I'll just go an ruin y'all thread too with my not-needed comments.
posted 07-22-2003 09:52 PM PT (US)

SPQR Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Lancelot: If you get to play "Emergency Reality Check Network", I get to play God. "We apologize for any disruption in your service. We are running a routine netwok diagnostic. Normal service should resume in 24hrs. If you experience symptoms of cognitive displacement within this time, please, first cover your head with a wet towl and proceed to reboot your system. Thank-you for calling and have an MV day"
posted 07-22-2003 10:21 PM PT (US)

Al Standard Userer	Hadrian, I--and probably many others--believe this board is all about film music debate and the sharing of opinions, and if you don't ask for debate or different opinions, you're certainly asking for the response you received. As an MV supporter, you could do better than calling those with different opinions "HATERS" and "mofo MV bashers." It reflects badly on others who enjoy MV as much as you, making it seem that all the MV fans out there are ignorant adolescents, which is not true.
posted 07-22-2003 10:21 PM PT (US)

Lancelot Standard Userer	I sympathize with you, Hadrian. I think there's too many people with a "Stay off the Grass" = "Lawn Party" attitude, and your attempt to quell that beforehand was just a big red flag for starting some sh!t, because, that's what passes for fun around here for some folks. (Of course, you'll hear from the "it's a free board, so if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" camp, too.)
posted 07-22-2003 10:22 PM PT (US)

joan hue Standard Userer	Hey Joe, well said! I really do agree with a lot of what you say. I enjoy �fluff� films for sheer entertainment and escapism, but I do wish we had some intimate, meatier movies. Real conversations now and then amidst car crashes and shoot outs would be refreshing. (Two �art� movies that did haunt me and �stick to my ribs� were The Hours and In The Bedroom. (You�ve got to be a parent to really connect to In the Bedroom.))
posted 07-22-2003 10:39 PM PT (US)

SPQR Standard Userer	quote: Further, to talk about Trek films for a quick moment, I believe Trek has "died" for the same reason. Producers are stuck in the Roddenberry universe. Ummm...take out the Roddenberry, you take out the Trek. quote: They quote, often, how much they intend to stick to the Roddenberry ideals of the future. While this is comendable, it should alert anyone who listens that they are stuck in the past. Times have changed. To quote a certain Stephen King character, the world has moved on. Ya, I know. Conscientious optimism? What a bummer concept that is. Besides, it died out with jesus didn't it? And, like he was so behind the times as it was anyway. We're way past that. And so much smarter. And better. And generous. And peaceful. And on, and on, and on... But I don't have to, 'cause we know all this stuff already. We've moved on... ...can't wait for the Trek Marines! Cool! Joe, Trek is comatose because Berman snubbed his nose at the old gaurd thinking the 14-35 M demo would latch onto the dumbed down T&A parade and whiz bang FX. But, guess what, they didn't, because even they enjoy a well told story. So now Berman's only got the desperate watching, and the ocassional bored viewer who hasn't got anything better to do on a Wednesday night. He screwed himself by screwing the fans by taking a stalwart premise and emasculating it. So what's Berman's solution in Enterprise 03: more violence & more gratuitous T&A. WOW! Trek incarnated. Have we ever moved on.
posted 07-23-2003 12:20 AM PT (US)

Ron Pulliam Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by HadrianD: Man, if this board was ikonboard, I'd have closed this thread along time ago. Geesh people, I didn't ask for a debate here. Heck, I even told you mofos who hate MV to stay away. I wasn't asking for your goddamm opinions. But then the mofo MV bashers still participated and ruin this thread cause they couldn't just leave thing alone. I'll just go an ruin y'all thread too with my not-needed comments.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> First of all, dude, you don't control what people write in threads. The most you can hope for is thoughtful discourse. Of course, when you tell some people to stay away, you INVITE them in, donchaknow! At any rate, nobody got ugly BUT YOU...nobody called anyone names BUT YOU...and so far as I can tell, the only off-topic spamming going on in YOUR thread is YOURS, TOO. The only way you can stop people from posting to your threads, is to stop creating them. Then we would all lose! [Message edited by Ron Pulliam on 07-23-2003]
posted 07-23-2003 01:42 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	I was weary about starting a MV related thread because I feared that the MV bashers (yes they are, because that's all they do) would just come in and ruin it. I guess anything MV no matter how neutral it is, is just honey for flies. My point for naming MV bashers haters? Because that's what they do. Don't like MV and don't care for them? don't go to MV related threads. They do anyway and ruin things. It wouldn't have mattered if I didn't put "Stay The Hell Away" thing there. They would have come anyway. I only wish James Horner had a new score out just so people can come and bash it. They hate, and they'll hate regardless of anything. I admit that it was wholly unnecessary to call them mofo, but hey... they wanted to go and ruin it. I was sharing a fact. A piece of news that wasn't about sides. If it was an article stating that MV is the best thing in filmmusic then, yeah, debate is expected. COME ON PEOPLE! My 2 cents: If you're all gonna act like ignorant adolescents and butt in when you're not welcomed, then don't complain about me when I get pissed off and act like one.
posted 07-23-2003 09:20 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Standard Userer	Have you ever HEARD "Scarborough Fair," Hadrian? Shaun
posted 07-23-2003 11:05 PM PT (US)

SPQR Standard Userer	"Five to one against and falling ... four to one against and falling ... three to one ... two ... one ... probability factor of one to one ... we have normality, I repeat we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem. Please relax." Trillian, HHGTTG [Message edited by SPQR on 07-24-2003]
posted 07-23-2003 11:52 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by SPQR: "Five to one against and falling ... four to one against and falling ... three to one ... two ... one ... probability factor of one to one ... we have normality, I repeat we have normality." Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem. Please relax." Trillian, HHGTTG Tell that to yourself. I ain't hating and bothering people.
posted 07-24-2003 12:25 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by HadrianD: Don't like MV and don't care for them? don't go to MV related threads. I don't like them, and I do care, because it looks like they have a considerable influence on the future of film music. Anything that happens, happens. Anything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that, in happening, cuases itself to happen again, happens again. It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though. NP: Tirol Concerto (Philip Glass)
posted 07-24-2003 04:49 AM PT (US)

pietari Standard Userer	Shaun, It`s not that big a deal that Leave no man Behind is inspired by Scarborough Fair. As I`m sure that you are well aware, this happens a lot in film music. Just take the whole Schindler`s List/Enemy at the Gates/Traditional Folk Tune debacle. I don`t see Williams crediting folk music anywhere on the cd.... Hadrian, Anyway, I repeat myself once again. I wouldn`t pay much attention to these MV bashers. They`ll keep doing it no matter what and it`s senseless to argue with people whose sole point of existence in this thread is to point out to us how wrong we are. I will, for one, basically ignore the poster SPQR. If you go to FSM messageboard, you`ll see that all he seems to do is attack people for no reason. It`s quite a sad state when someone has to resort to something like that in order to compensate for whatever qualitites may be lacking in their own lives. But then again, I`m sure I`m due another `witty` response from our favorite Daniel2-doppelganger. [Message edited by pietari on 07-24-2003]
posted 07-24-2003 05:05 AM PT (US)

Dinko Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford: Have you ever HEARD "Scarborough Fair," Hadrian? Shaun Only the Sarah Brightman version, why?
posted 07-24-2003 05:20 AM PT (US)

Al Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by HadrianD: My 2 cents: If you're all gonna act like ignorant adolescents and butt in when you're not welcomed, then don't complain about me when I get pissed off and act like one. "ALL gonna act like ignorant adolescents?" I don't see how anything I said could portray me as an ignorant adolescent, but you've certainly proved that MV is more worth my time than your "supportive" threads concerning them.
posted 07-24-2003 07:33 AM PT (US)

SPQR Standard Userer	The reviews are in! That was fast.
posted 07-24-2003 07:46 AM PT (US)

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