But once more I can only wonder how such a great composer has so few of his greatest achievements released as commercial CDs - and thus making it impossible to speak/inquire about his score gems on these fine message boards (due to Peter K's new policy).

And alas, I haven't been able of finding a single website dedicated to David Newman. So, I humbly ask that if out there is someone who considers him/herself as a David Newman expert, please e-mail me - I'd really need some expert help in solving a riddle on a D. Newman score gem !!

I'd visit a site on him. I like his music (SCOOBY is a bit, well, er...). My favorite score of his is either THE PHANTOM or OPERATION: DUMBO DROP.

His music is just wonderful. Though he does great work in the genre, he really needs to break out of comedies. Some of my favorite Newman scores:

I don't know much of David Newman's work, but your post reminded me of an unresolved (for me) Newman mystery. A few years ago I caught the titles of some supernatural/horror thingy on TV. I did some research just now, and I must be thinking of THE RUNESTONE, from 1990, starring Peter Riegert. Anyway, the main titles were really strong, but I'd heard that music before. I've no idea, but I get the feeling that the composer may have re-used the music for THE PHANTOM theme. I really sat up and paid attention when THE RUNESTONE started.

I don't know much of David Newman's work, but your post reminded me of an unresolved (for me) Newman mystery. A few years ago I caught the titles of some supernatural/horror thingy on TV. I did some research just now, and I must be thinking of THE RUNESTONE, from 1990, starring Peter Riegert. Anyway, the main titles were really strong, but I'd heard that music before. I've no idea, but I get the feeling that the composer may have re-used the music for THE PHANTOM theme. I really sat up and paid attention when THE RUNESTONE started. <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

THE RUNESTONE is probably David Newman's darkest and most dramatic score. It's a real slugfest, filled with orchestral bombast and horror cliches - and I love it. It's another great score for a horrible movie... I don't think there is a connection between The Runestone and The Phantom though.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>And what's HOFFA like? Time Out critic Steve Grant opines that the score was "unspeakable." What grounds would someone have for going to that extreme? Really terrible music? Inappropriate? You tell me!<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it's not inappropriate at all - but you may find it to be a little over-American, a bit overwhelming. It's a very epic score. It's, in my opinion, David Newman's true masterpiece so far. It has a superb main theme, it's wonderfully orchestrated and the end credits suite is just a very, very good composition in its own right.

FYI, I have posted a short mp3 clip of Hoffa - you really have to hear it! It will be available for a limited time at this URL:
http://w1.704.telia.com/~u70408470/hoffa.mp3

mikael

Mikael: Thanks also. That clip kept on cutting out, but I got the gist of it - really good. Yes, perhaps the "unspeakable" opinion is in the same line as those who felt John Williams' score for BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY was too overbearing.

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Originally posted by Graham Watt:
Ken, good to see you back. You haven't been posting much recently - everything OK?

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Thank you, Graham, my friend - I'm quite OK.
True, I haven't posted much and its mainly because 1) I don't have much to say and 2) because the things I WOULD LIKE TO SAY are mostly about bootlegs (= true movie music gems).
A pity.

As I haven't received any e-mail replies about this matter, I take the chance of saying it here in public:

Could there be TWO David Newman scores for THE WAR OF THE ROSES ?

Any info appreciated !!

KEN

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken S:
As I haven't received any e-mail replies about this matter, I take the chance of saying it here in public:

Could there be TWO David Newman scores for THE WAR OF THE ROSES ?

Any info appreciated !!

KEN

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How do you mean: Newman wrote a score for the film, DeVito didn't like and tossed it out and Newman wrote another? If so, it's news to me.

Operation Dumbo Drop is fantastic stuff, as is Hoffa, The Phantom, Galaxy Quest, Anastasia.

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Originally posted by SBD:
How do you mean: Newman wrote a score for the film, DeVito didn't like and tossed it out and Newman wrote another?

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Exactly my thoughts, because I received ...ummm... a recording of THE WAR OF THE ROSES that, with the exception of one track (the main title theme), is nothing like what was heard in the final movie. I tried to pinpoint each track in the movie (as I usually do my researches for track titles) with one ear listening to the CD, and one ear simultaneously listening to the authentic movie soundtrack from video - but nothing, except the main theme, matched the movie. A couple of the recording's tracks seem to be based on the movie's "love theme", but they are indeed VERY different from the movie's score and do not appear anywhere in the movie. And before anyone suggests that the rest of the tracks could be "new, complete arrangements" of the movie's authentic music, I say that it's simply impossible assumption: The majority of the movie's action music is based on the main title theme, but all the action tracks on the CD are completely different themes and melodies - bearing no resemblance to the movie's authentic score.

I want to apologize to Peter K for writing this here on these message boards, but my attempt is really to find out is this specific recording really done by David Newman or is someone out there just trying to fool people to believe that they are listening to the authentic score for Newman's WAR OF THE ROSES on this recording.

(By the way, one of my earlier researches cleared that Mr. Steve Bramson had nothing to do with an ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE bootleg).

The brain dead film justifies it's existence for Tommy Lee Jones, the well photographed and edited air battles, and Newman's great score, unfortunately only available as that "whose name we dare not speak."

And yes...Malone is a fantastic score!!

That said, it's a shame that, like Alan Silvestri, he has lost his distinct "voice." There used to be a "David Newman sound" that was like no one else's. You don't hear that anymore. Same with Silvestri.

I think we have those "powers that be" that want only the blandest and unnoticeable music wallpapering their film to blame for this.

One only has to listen to early works by David Newman to hear what I am referring to. Listen to Throw Mamma From The Train, Hoffa, War of the Roses, Matilda, Critters, My Demon Lover, and Mr. Destiny to find it. About the time of The Phantom it started to disappear. (As a matter of fact, I think I only really heard it once in that film and it was during the big city sequence.)

As for Silvestri, it's kind of the same thing. Every now and then you hear his "signature sound," but not that often.

I like it when you can tell a composer by his "sound." John Barry, Georges Delerue, Alex North, Nino Rota, Leonard Rosenman all are composers who you can recognize by this trait. Granted it may change a bit over the years (Barry in particular) but it's still very distinct.

I wonder if a composer like Delerue or Rota would find work these days if they were still alive?

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
There used to be a "David Newman sound" that was like no one else's. You don't hear that anymore. Same with Silvestri. - - One only has to listen to early works by David Newman to hear what I am referring to. Listen to Throw Mamma From The Train, Hoffa, War of the Roses, Matilda, Critters, My Demon Lover, and Mr. Destiny to find it. About the time of The Phantom it started to disappear. (As a matter of fact, I think I only really heard it once in that film and it was during the big city sequence.) As for Silvestri, it's kind of the same thing. Every now and then you hear his "signature sound," but not that often.

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Wow, Bond1965,
I thought I was the only one with these very same thoughts.

I agree with you 100%

KEN

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Originally posted by JoeInSanDiego:
BMIKEJ: That's the one I couldn't think of yesterday!! I knew it was a single name, like Hoffa...hehehe...thank you!

Joe

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My pleasure, Joe. And thank you for the kind words over on FSM's board.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
That said, it's a shame that, like Alan Silvestri, he has lost his distinct "voice." There used to be a "David Newman sound" that was like no one else's. You don't hear that anymore. Same with Silvestri.

I think we have those "powers that be" that want only the blandest and unnoticeable music wallpapering their film to blame for this.

One only has to listen to early works by David Newman to hear what I am referring to. Listen to Throw Mamma From The Train, Hoffa, War of the Roses, Matilda, Critters, My Demon Lover, and Mr. Destiny to find it. About the time of The Phantom it started to disappear. (As a matter of fact, I think I only really heard it once in that film and it was during the big city sequence.)

As for Silvestri, it's kind of the same thing. Every now and then you hear his "signature sound," but not that often.

James

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Bond1965, you ignorant slut.

One need only listen to ANASTASIA, ICE AGE and SCOOBY-DOO to hear that the Newman sound still exists. I would expect most people to jump to that conclusion based on some of Newman's recent works; stuff like HOW TO LOSE A GUY IN 10 DAYS and DADDY DAY CARE doesn't seem likely to inspire masterpiece scores.

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Originally posted by SBD:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Bond1965:
[b]That said, it's a shame that, like Alan Silvestri, he has lost his distinct "voice." There used to be a "David Newman sound" that was like no one else's. You don't hear that anymore. Same with Silvestri.

I think we have those "powers that be" that want only the blandest and unnoticeable music wallpapering their film to blame for this.

One only has to listen to early works by David Newman to hear what I am referring to. Listen to Throw Mamma From The Train, Hoffa, War of the Roses, Matilda, Critters, My Demon Lover, and Mr. Destiny to find it. About the time of The Phantom it started to disappear. (As a matter of fact, I think I only really heard it once in that film and it was during the big city sequence.)

As for Silvestri, it's kind of the same thing. Every now and then you hear his "signature sound," but not that often.

James<HR size=1></blockquote>

Bond1965, you ignorant slut.

One need only listen to ANASTASIA, ICE AGE and SCOOBY-DOO to hear that the Newman sound still exists. I would expect most people to jump to that conclusion based on some of Newman's recent works; stuff like HOW TO LOSE A GUY IN 10 DAYS and DADDY DAY CARE doesn't seem likely to inspire masterpiece scores.

As for Silvestri, don't let IDENTITY color your attitude toward his sound or lack thereof (I thought it - the score - was okay, but others felt differently).[/B]

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My but we are testy.

I didn't see "Scooby Doo" or "Daddy Day Care" because they looked like crap films so I have no opinion on them.

"Identity" is another I haven't heard.

But I am sure there are plenty of films that illustrate my point about these composers and their scores. I'm not saying their voice is gone, but often muted to be non-exsistent.

My point was I find it disappointing to see a composer lose his "voice" and become generic because of studio/director demands. For heaven sakes, if you want a bland sound, don't hire a composer who has a uniqueness about him.

And I hate to go back to this argument...but it's my main gripe with Zimmer, et. al. They have a factory supplying a sound for everyone who wants a Zimmer score. It all sounds the same after awhile.

Thank god for indiviuality. Let's hope composers are given the opportunity to express it in the limited amount of time they have to do their jobs.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
James (who can be a slut, but not an ignorant one)

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Oh...that must be one I missed on the legitimate release circuit.

And for SBD...I knew the reference. I'm not unfamiliar with Pop culture from the '70s.

James