That's kind of like Par and Sub Par.

(I would like to request that I be changed to Gold Standard please. )

NP Islands In The Stream

quote:

---

Why have their been no great movies about economics or economists? And don't say A Beautiful Mind - I don't think they even mentioned John Nash won the Nobel prize for ECONOMICS. (Lousy stockbroker films, of which there is no shortage, don't count - they aren't economists, they just convince people they are.)[/B]

---

To be more precise, John Nash won the Nobel for Game Theory. His ideas have extended beyond Economics and into other areas of intellectual thought. Hollywood has made an excellent film showing the application of Game Theory principles in international relations, namely 13 DAYS dealing with the Cuban Missile Crisis. A film I respect and with a pretty good Trevor Jones score, too.

Incidentally, Nash shared his 1994 award with two other academics - one named Selter and I forget the other one, just now.

Agree about 13 days. Good film - hadn't really thought of it as a game theory application.

In any case, point stands: any films about economists or economics about to be made?

NP Meet Joe Black<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's an interesting question you pose. It could be argued that most mainstream American films are about capitalist ideology. I once saw an excellent alternative film about the agrarian socialist movement in Minnesota and their problems with Eastern banks that is arguably about economics in its representation of the impact of economics on the material conditions of rural American families. Michael Moore's ROGER AND ME is a great documentary about deindustrialization and trickle-down economics.

I have seen secondary school economics teachers use the following films to teach aspects of Economics to their students: MATEWAN (John Sayles is always a good choice), ERIN BROKOVICH, WALL STREET, THE MISSION, THE BIG ONE, and MODERN TIMES. In fact, a Grade 12 teacher, I know, used BEAUTIFUL MIND to introduce his class to Game Theory and the application of Nash's ideas in the banking industry.

THE MATRIX has been used to get at structure and agency within post-colonial and post-structuralist discourses.

Films dealing with economists, per se, are usually within the realm of documentaries. Galbraith, for example, has been covered.

BEAUTIFUL MIND is a bit of a novelty item in its attempt to represent the abstract ideas of Nash, as entertainment. I think Horner's music helped a lot in making this palatable to the audience, even if they were not following the intellectual thread. Without the success of the book, though, and the cinematic potential of exploiting Nash's struggles with schizophrenia, one has to wonder if the film would have been made.

Did you know that the Nobel nomination committee initially challenged Nash's nomination because they did not think it was appropriate to give the recognition to someone who was "crazy"?

BB

[Message edited by Bob Bowd on 06-18-2003]

Double oops!

I erroneously reported that Nash's co-winner was Selter. It should have been "Selten". He was from Germany. The other co-winner was not Akerlof, but Harsanyi, also an American, as was Nash.

I have encountered Game Theory in political science studies (one of my undergraduate majors). This probably sensitized me to THIRTEEN DAYS. Most of my graduate work has been in the area of political economy, not hegemonic positivist economics.

I think your point about Horner's score in ABM is a good one - those minimalist piano chords and that ethereal not-child/not-woman vocal really sound like thought from another plane.

I suppose when I think of a film about economists, I look for... I don't know, a biopic of Keynes starring Ian McKellan as the older Keynes and someone as the younger.

BB: Gandalf the Good reincarnated as John Maynard Keynes is definitely an idea whose time has come. Christoper Lee will play Milton Friedman.

Or even a film focused on ideas that are economic... I once thought a documentary about the socialist calculation debate could actually work - in the fallout of the 1st world war, a group of continental economists (Bauer, von Hayek, Mises, Schumpter, etc.) argue about whether free market or centralised economic control is optimal. While they construct elegant theorems and refute eachother in true erudite style, their lives are collapsing. The very questions they ask are being answered around them. Depression, government responses, mass unemployment, Stalin, the rise of fascism. Economics mixes with blood in one of the most awful moments of history. Who do you think should score this film I call The Social Calculus?

BB: I would definitely go to see THE SOCIAL CALCULUS. John Morgan and Bill Stromberg should adapt and arrange the music of Hans Eisler for the score.

I once saw a film about Rosa Luxembourg and the Spartacist Movement which did grapple somewhat with the politics of the post-WW 1 period. Her debates with Karl Kautsky were part of the film's narrative.

I definitely like your idea of THE SOCIAL CALCULUS.

BB

[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I should be a standard bearer or a standard bare-er. EEwwweee.

Still hope PeterK chimes in on the origin of our new monikers.

Joan, Mommy... all this was discussed at the weekly online meeting.

BB: Gandalf the Good reincarnated as John Maynard Keynes is definitely an idea whose time has come. Christoper Lee will play Milton Friedman.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Patrick Stewart as Joseph Schumpeter, Robert Culp as Paul Samuelson, a buttoned-up Emily Watson as Joan Robinson, and even Adrien Brody in a cameo as Michael Kalecki.

BB: I would definitely go to see THE SOCIAL CALCULUS. John Morgan and Bill Stromberg should adapt and arrange the music of Hans Eisler for the score.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

What would I know these names from? Stromberg and Eisler ring a bell.

I once saw a film about Rosa Luxembourg and the Spartacist Movement which did grapple somewhat with the politics of the post-WW 1 period. Her debates with Karl Kautsky were part of the film's narrative.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've heard of the film. I should track it down.

I definitely like your idea of THE SOCIAL CALCULUS.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

More an idea for a documentary than a dramatic film I think. But there's something there... the optimal control debate is arguably the most important question economists have ever put their mind to, and while they've considered it against no shortage of backgrounds, I think the Europeans of the 1920s/1930s provide the most fascinating backdrop for those ideas to play out against. By the end of it, most of their homes were destroyed, and they were either dead or academic refugees to America.

Thanks for your thoughts, and Joan, apologies for hijacking your thread,

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dinko:
What's weird, is that economists can be even more evil than lawyers. Yet, there are countless lawyer movies.

---

Good point, Dinko. It's a structured silence, I think.

John Morgan and Bill Stromberg are not only the best film score reconstructionists, in the business, but also seriously underutilized composers of dramatic underscore. Thanks to Avie I have been able to discover just how capable they are. I think they could provide appropriate tonal contextual music and atonal abstract music for the ideas, fusing the two in a way that would connect with the audience. Full orchestral and small ensemble - no problem.

Alternatively, it would be interesting to give Steve Reich a go at a film score. [Glass and Nyman were too easy. Of the two I would probably opt for Nyman, rather than Glass, much as I like Philip Glass's music as a listening experience. Nyman's style in GATTACA hints at an appropriate musical voice. <g>]

BB