Here, from FILMUS-L, are the reasons for the DARK CRYSTAL being the kind of release that it is.

Dan

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ford Thaxton (producer of the album)
This is all the music elements that were in the Jim Henson's company's vaults and given that fact the end result was far better then anyone could have hoped for.

The real problem that haunted this project is none other then TREVOR JONES himself

Mr. Jones wasn't happy that another label was going to release it.

He was offered creative approval of every aspect of the project as well as having final approval of the CD master by both the label and the Henson company.

he failed to respond and depending on when he was asked he either
a.) Had the tapes, but never had time to ship them out.
or
b.) didn't have any tapes of the score in his vaults.

The later statement is really odd given his own comments in his interview with FSM of about two years ago that he had hours or music.

Whatever the case, he wasn't going to help anyone with a expanded release of this score and short of taking him to court, there was no way anyone could get him to turn over the tapes, even when that party had every legal right to
be given access to whatever masters he might have.

That is the truth of the matter.

It was his choice and that is that.

As for Mr. Jones, it would be nice if he would pay some attention to his own label and release DINOTOPIA and repress CLEOPATRA, his record label and their releases haven't been that easy to come by now have they?

I think the 2 CD set turned out rather well in the end and I hope ou enjoy it.

---

Thanks,
Chris

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin:
And the untold reason: Mr. Jones - like a growing number of people - doesn't want to have anything to do with Ford Thaxton.

I'm neaarly 100% positive that if Ford wasn't involved, Trevor Jones would have happily helped out.

---

You would actually be mistaken. But don't let reality get in the way of your opinion.

In my 'mistaken' personal opinion like Kevin's, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jones didn't hand over the tapes because Ford was involved. I can't say I blame Jones now that I know Ford was involved with this release.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
Dan, and you're so sure of that because...?

---

Because i know the history of the project better than you do, and the chronology in which things occured.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
That's a much better answer than "I know more than you do."

---

Agreed!

....but you also haven't pissed Jeff off with your attitude, and he's more likely to take the time to explain something to you whereas I personally have no patience for your demands for explainations as to how I know that Jones's ultimate lack of involvement with THE DARK CRYSTAL was NOT because of a supposed "hatred of Ford", which is something you would love to believe to be true.

Many folks here have given me little reason to provide the type of info that I do, and yet I STILL keep coming back here to share what I know. Given how some of you guys treat me, it's a wonder I still bother.

On the other hand, lately you've been short with us, basically telling us "how it is" (which reminds me of somebody else.) We're just supposed to accept your posts as gospel while you provide no or little information to back up what you're saying.

Excuse me for trying to find out some real facts on which I can base my OWN opinion on.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jonathan_little:
We're just supposed to accept your posts as gospel while you provide no or little information to back up what you're saying.

Excuse me for trying to find out some real facts on which I can base my OWN opinion on.

---

I never said anything I post is "gospel" and HAS to be accepted without question. But if you constantly question my sources, it gets old and tiring. Soon you'll be questioning me for my sources of the Zimmer/Badelt PIRATES news!

Think about this case for just a second. Do you really think that you are in a better position to know what happened with Jones and the DARK CRYSTAL than I am? I am on speaking terms with Ford, Michael Gerhard, and even Trevor Jones. I'm not saying you have to accept everything I say, but you don't have to go questioning everything if it doesn't "mesh" with what your uninformed opinion might be. You're out there in Maine for goodness sakes. Consider that there are indeed other people who are in a position to know more than you.

And if my explaination isn't good enough, maybe you could try ASKING NICELY for a more detailed explaination instead of demanding it as if you were entitled to it to begin with.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dgoldwas:
Many folks here have given me little reason to provide the type of info that I do, and yet I STILL keep coming back here to share what I know. Given how some of you guys treat me, it's a wonder I still bother.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dgoldwas:
maybe you could try ASKING NICELY for a more detailed explaination instead of demanding it as if you were entitled to it to begin with.

---

But when people do ask nicely you still come across as as arrogant, whiny son of a bitch.

And trust me. Name-dropping doesn't get you anywhere. I could sit here for hours and drop names of people I know, who in the grand scheme of (non-Hollywood) reality are much more important than any composer - or certainly your boyfriend Thaxton - but I have enough self-confidence and morals that I don't have to.

I HAVE HAD IT!!!

IF YOU ALL DON'T SIT DOWN AND BEHAVE YOURSELVES, I SWEAR I WILL TURN THIS CAR AROUND AND TAKE EVERYBODY HOME!!!

NOW PLAY NICE!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeron:
That seems awfully self-important of you, Dan.

---

Oh please Jeron, spare me your 2 cents. It's not like you're adding anything to this discussion, but for some reason, you guys just can't seem to stay on a topic. And if you think that my contributions to this message board aren't useful, then by all means, feel free to refrain from responding to my posts or threads.

Kevin, you still seem bitter and jealous of something.

Al, thanks for coming up with a brilliantly "original" quote.

Bradley, thanks for the humor.

It's funny to see that when you guys have nothing better to do, you make personal attacks. Lucky for me, I don't really give a sh*t about your opinions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bradley:
ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ENOUGH!!!

I HAVE HAD IT!!!

IF YOU ALL DON'T SIT DOWN AND BEHAVE YOURSELVES, I SWEAR I WILL TURN THIS CAR AROUND AND TAKE EVERYBODY HOME!!!

NOW PLAY NICE!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeron:
I wasn't 'attacking' you... was merely making an observation. Stop being a drama queen.

---

Never said you were attacking me, Jeron. Did you even bother to read the other posts on this thread?

quote:

---

Originally posted by dgoldwas:
You're out there in Maine for goodness sakes. Consider that there are indeed other people who are in a position to know more than you.

---

Damn my geographical location.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dgoldwas:
Never said you were attacking me, Jeron. Did you even bother to read the other posts on this thread?

---

Sure I did, you lumped myself, Kevin, and Al together (and probably J_Little, for that matter). I'm not necessarily going to disagree with what they had to say, but there's a difference between their methods and mine. I don't think Kevin was attacking you. It's tinged, certainly, with a bit of cynicism and the regular, unwritten (whether it be right or wrong) 'guilty-by-association' clause. But when it comes down to it, he was simply making some observations, just as I was.

Instead of becoming angular and defensive in your disputes, try answering in a more humble and apologetic way. It never hurts to apologize, even if you think you've done nothing wrong. I know for a fact that it might go along way in making a difference in 'how everyone treats you' - or whatever it is you think is going on.

Most of all, don't be self-important. It's not a very attractive personality trait. You might not intend it, but you can sometimes come across that way - especially in the statement I chose to comment on. If you're trying to appeal to 'the masses' in this film music community, get on the same level as everyone else. Everyone has equal say here. Well, with the exception of a few folks who have proved their contributions to be non-contributory.

Cheers,
Jeron

This is obviously a case of "shooting the messenger."

If you hadn't written your review or posted the information about why this release turned out this way, no one would have been attacking you. You're just the bearer of bad news.

They're just all upset that they didn't get the release that you and everyone else was hoping for.

AND

People,

This isn't the first time things haven't turned out like we had hoped: i.e. The Hulk, Timeline and Pirates of the Caribbean scoring situations, various film score releases, etc.

Let's not have yet another Cyber-war here.

I know some posters get on people's nerves but the nastiness really is getting out of hand.

If I wanted to read this kind of stuff, I'd go back to FILMUS-L and FSM's board.

I have no gripes with the news Dan delivered, in fact, I found it informational and helpful, if anything. I think the alleged 'attackers' would agree as well. But who knows, I'm not them. That aside, I don't see any attacking or cyber-wars going on here. You're right, FSM and Filmus-L are the places to go if you want that kind of action.

So, all of that having been said, Dan, thanks for the update. I already knew a majority of that information, which is why I chose not to comment on it.

Jeron

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeron:
I don't see any attacking or cyber-wars going on here.

---

lol.... sure, okay. Admitting you don't disagree with their comments tells me more about you than you ever could have. Of course you don't see Al's comment as a personal attack, or Kevin's smarmy remarks as anything you don't already agree with. For me to expect anything like that from you would be foolish. Kevin's allowed his cynicism and attitude, but heaven-forbid I get fed up with it!

Jonthan Little wanted an explaination; I mentioned that I know what happened cause I'm in contact with people associated with the incident, and suddenly I'm "name-dropping". Right. Tell me how that's a fair scenario?

You might feel that my particular comment was a bit self-important. Perhaps it was, and hey, I'm certainly not beneath admitting my errors. But while everyone certainly has equal say here, there is a difference when it comes to knowing certain information, and sharing that with the masses. To think otherwise is a bit unrealistic. It reminds me of a very long email I got from a fan who was incredibly upset that a few of us film music journalists got the full 2-CD score to THE MATRIX RELOADED, and he didn't - and what entitled us to get it instead of him. I'd be happy to share that with you, if you'd like some interesting reading.

What it all boils down to is, I really don't have to contribute anything to this board. I do so because I enjoy it here (when I'm not dealing with crap like this), and because I think there is plenty worth discussing. But if I'm coming across as self-important by pointing out that I don't have to share my info, well, then I'm sure no one here will give two sh*ts if I stop sharing. It's like a catch-22. I get berated for not sharing, and then berated when I do. Up until this point, I've found at least a few kind souls who would back me up on certain "battles" here. In fact, Jeron, you used to be one of them. The fact that Peter is on vacation is probably the only reason this thread hasn't exploded and burned to a cinder.

And as mentioned in another thread, Jeron, if you have nothing to add to a thread except some sort of personal observation about my behavior, why don't you email me or IM me instead of dragging it all out here?

Oh - and if memory serves, the only reason you knew about all that stuff beforehand (and therefore didn't have anything to add) was because I told you about it.

As for my part, yeah, I might have been a bit haughty earlier, and for that, I do apologize.

(and James, thank you for being one of the few voices of reason on this thread.)

Dan

quote:

---

Originally posted by dgoldwas Al, thanks for coming up with a brilliantly "original" quote.

---

You're welcome, seeing as I'm the actual origin of it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bond1965 They're just all upset that they didn't get the release that you and everyone else was hoping for.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
I honestly don't care how the Dark Crystal CD turned out, just as Dan doesn't give a "sh*t" about my opinion.

---

Well, you haven't exactly given me a reason to care about your opinion, especially when you're coming up with clever word-play gems like the one you used above.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dgoldwas Well, you haven't exactly given me a reason to care about your opinion, especially when you're coming up with clever word-play gems like the one you used above.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
Well, you haven't exactly given me a reason to care about the info you provide, especially when it's coated in the self-important attitude that you radiated above.

---

But Al, I never asked you to care about the info I provide, and if you didn't care, you didn't have to chime in.

Just cause you CAN chime in, doesn't mean you HAVE to.

LOL... etc. etc, back and forth, yadda yadda yadda.

Dan

To quote a famous (or is it infamous) Califonian: "Can...can't we all just get along?"

There was nothing...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, in Dan's original thread-opening-post other than a cut-n-paste message written by Ford.

Almost immediately, the attacks on Ford began...and they were absolutely purposeful, hateful, beligerent and added nothing whatsoever to the discussion. Adding to that the first offending post was merely conjecture and opinion, NOT fact...only fueled the issue.

Dan's response to Kevin's first attack ended with a wink and a smirk...not what I would call a nasty response...nor would I even have construed a negative implication in it...jonathan_little didn't help by agreeing with Kevin's opinion and let his own personal opinion of Thaxton influence the post...again...NOTHING adding to the discussion of the Dark Crystal release...just a personal attack.

Again, Dan's response was NOT negative in any way...just relaying a true fact...responding positively to jonathan's post. jonathan's response...another personal attack on Dan.

Jeff chimed in...again, relaying facts and attempting to dispel rumors on how things go. Jonathan responds with another attack on Dan...

Dan's response...agreeing with jonathan's statement...and attempting to explain why he reacted the way he did...jonathan's response, then, was a bit mroe civil, but still ending with an acerbic remark towards Dan.

Of course, Jeron didn't help with his statement...another attack on Dan. Kevin also responded...more personal attacks, including name-calling.

It gets worse from here on out...Al adds to the fray...Bradley attempts to lighten the moment with appropriate (and good natured) humor.

By now, Dan has no reason whatsoever to be civil to ANYONE. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THIS THREAD, Dan responds with an attack of his own.

Jeron back-pedals, calling his remark an observation, not a personal attack, although they can be construed as one-and- the-same if read in context with the rest of the thread. He ends the post with a personal attack on Dan.

Kevin throws in some good natured humor...rahter out of place in this thread, from him at least, but welcomed...perhaps he isn't the jerk he has come off as being so far...we shall see....

Let's continue then...so far, I'm about 3/4 of the way through this thread...

Dan responds to a perceived attack by Jeron with an implied observation of his own.

Suddenly, out of NOWHERE, jonathan_little replies with some good-natured humor (and a sly, if slightly misguided) attack on the denizens of Los Angeles. Again, as in Kevin's case, could it be that jonathan isn't the jerk he has appeared to be earlier? Onward...

Jeron attempts to answer Dan's implied observation...but, unfortunately, tries to explain Kevin's behavior as well...and a demand for more humility from Dan. Jeron then tries to explain Dan's behavior to Dan...and, unfortunately, comes across as being as high-and-mighty as he blames Dan of being.

James interjects...attempting to explain to Dan everyone else's behavior. His response is more tailored to a receptive audience than the previous post, in my humble opinion. He also lays down some facts and attempts at bringing order to chaos. (Of course, he unjustly attacks FSM, which he shall pay dearly for...just wait...)

Jeron then backsteps from his previous superior position and appears humble and circumspect...however, he must be blind if he doesn't see the flaming going on all around him in this thread so far... (He also unjustly, and unwisely, attacks FSM...he too shall be judged accordingly...just wait...) Finally, Jeron thanks Dan (but then throws in the quick jibe about already knowing about what Dan had posted...)

Well, I am sure by this point Dan is just plain flabbergasted...I can see his face now:

Then, (don't worry, I am nearing the end here) Dan lays down an implied ultimatum and calls Jeron out onto the dance floor for some major ass-whoopin (outside, in the parkign lot, with witnesses, of course).

Dan APOLOGIZES for being what everyone says he was (although I honestly never saw it) and thanks James for his support (perhaps Dan just MISSED James' attack on FSM and neglected to re-read it, otherwise he wouldn't be so eager with his praises).

Then, Al makes his second appearance. A snide remark about his own brilliance and an aggreement with Jeron on not giving a "sh*t" how Dark Crystal turned out (I believe Jeron left out the sh*t and just said he didn't care..he was sure it was good).

Question...in a thread about Dark Crystal...if you didn't care, why did you respond with ANYTHING? Especially an attack on the person who began this thread by simply repeating a previously-written statement by someone else providing clarification on a process?

Okay. Did I get all that right? Anyone? Anyone? I think I hit all the high points (or low points if you will).

MY TURN (because I HATE to be left out of all the fun):

Sometimes Dan comes across...abruptly, but for god's sake, the personal attacks are not necessary and he isn't condescending until he gets attacked, which happens all to quickly and all too often. I may not post here a lot, but I've lurked for years and know everyone's personalities by how they post (I even met a few of you guys). I stopped posting altogether and left after I was personally attacked (including some GLORIOUS emails I'd be happy to share concerning internet laws and spam and, yes, I think my mother was in a few of those too) for doing my job over at FSM and frankly, I have no idea why Dan continues to put up with the hateful attitudes he recieves here.

You don't have to LIKE someone to be polite to him (okay...here it comes..are you ready?), although sometimes there ARE certain people who make it extremely difficult. I just refuse to lump everyone here into the obnoxious, under 25 crowd (or Zimmerites as I believe they are called). I know plenty of people under 25 who aren't obnoxious.

Poor FishChip. I feel for ya, buddy! It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.

Now let me go back and spell check this thing before I get attacked for being illiterate.

Joe
NP - Nemesis (Goldsmith)

I can be reached at 1-800-GO-SATAN with any and all hatemails and threats.

Thank you for your time.

P.S. Dark Crystal rocks...and I am grateful to the almighty Ford for giving this gem to us (and jumping through the hurdles to do it).

Still listening to Nemsis...my blood is pulsing now...

Joe

P.S. It is my hope that everyone GOT my post...it was a message piece slipped inside a warm and loving tale of family and support for all who enter the house of Fish.
Read...and LEARN.

Your post was INCREDIBLE!!!. I don't think Howard Cosell himself could have given a better blow by blow description of the heavyweight bout!! So, how's it shaping up on your scorecard? After 20+ rounds, I still have it at a draw!

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoeInSanDiego:
James interjects...attempting to explain to Dan everyone else's behavior. His response is more tailored to a receptive audience than the previous post, in my humble opinion. He also lays down some facts and attempts at bringing order to chaos. (Of course, he unjustly attacks FSM, which he shall pay dearly for...just wait...)

Dan APOLOGIZES for being what everyone says he was (although I honestly never saw it) and thanks James for his support (perhaps Dan just MISSED James' attack on FSM and neglected to re-read it, otherwise he wouldn't be so eager with his praises).

[Message edited by JoeInSanDiego on 05-06-2003]

---

Joe,

Good to hear from you.

Sorry...I tried to post on FSM but never received "permission" to do so which is for the best. While Ido check in there on occasion, you do have to admit that the "flame wars" are pretty rampant. Hell...you yourself were attacked on MANY an occasion for trying to moderate that place.

I'm truly sorry if I offended you or your efforts to "police" there. I know you do your best, but in the end, it's a place to visit, not live. (Much like this board is becoming)

By the way...you ever think of becoming a message board "play-by-play" announcer?

We shall see how the game ends...

...soon!

Joe

Yup---still Nemesis (It's only been 20 minutes for goodness sake!!! it isn't a Varese disc...ooops....it is...NEVERMIND!)

oh god...

scratch that...

GO DODGERS!

Joe

ummm...Nemesis?

Can we rename this thread DARK CRYSTAL THREAD EXPLAINED?

Thanks.

go dodgers...

Joe
NP - don't bother asking...I'll slap you.

P.S. Oh good GRIEF...THREE!! THREE MISSPELLED WORDS! Just shoot me NOW!

The people in the "in crowd" keep complaining that people like me (fanboys) are uninformed, but they always stop there. They almost never follow through and provide me (us) with enough information to leap over the uninformed hurdle. Perhaps they simply don't want us to know or just don't have the time to spell it all out.

I'm sorry if I started being obnoxious and impolite, but I was just trying to get some decent information here. The initial answer I received was a Ford A. Thaxton-style "I know everything and it's not worth explaining to you" sort of comment which obviously doesn't sit well with me.

(And I was not attacking LA citizens... I was just saying that I'd be just as disconnected from the film score "in crowd" if I lived over there as I am here.)

NP: Moonsucksoundraker

[Message edited by jonathan_little on 05-06-2003]

Trust me when I say that, sometimes, someone pushes just the right button that send you over the top...personally..I didn't see anything in any Dan post that suggested that he was being condescending to anyone...is it possible you just misinterpreted (or perhaps, he has in the past and you expect him to all the time...that, too, is possible)? Bottom line is this: we are consumers. we demand information. If we don't get it...blame Crono/Kyp...not Dan...isn't Crono STILL the information man here???? HMMMM????

As to LA citizens...I can say this (since I was born there...lived there...and never stray too far away for TOO long)...some of them deserve to be attacked...hehehe...

Believe it or not...San Diego is only two hours away from LA and sometimes I feel like it is on the other side of the galaxy. No one ever visits me (JERON...oops...sorry...that slipped) and the movie industry just keeps moseying along without me (bastards...ALL OF YOU!).

Now that the pity-party has come to an end, I hope the "issues" have been resolved...as most of the parties have sincerely apologized for PERCEIVED actions on the parts of others.

Personally, I think ALL of you are nuts...just plain nuts...

Joe
NP - NOTHING!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!