-
Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks
Elmer's Westerns!!??
Archive of old forum. No more postings.
Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.
Author
Topic: Elmer's Westerns!!??

joan hue

Standard Userer

I guess this is the area we post now for soundtrack finders.Last week I watched True Grit for the first time is a gazillion years. I really liked
Bernstein’s score, but then he composes definitive western music IMHO. I love that
short action piece when Rooster charges the villains with guns blazing. Anyway, does
anyone know if this has been issued on a CD?Are there other westerns by Bernstein that have not been issued on CD yet? (I know
Hallelujah Trail was only issued on LP, and thanks be to the gods, a dear friend made
me a CDR from a LP. I’ve built a shrine around that CDR and light candles to it each
day.
) I’d like to know what other Bernstein westerns are not on CD so I can start some
sort of campaign. You know, figure out how many ritual sacrifices I have to make to get
these. Too many cats in the neighborhood anyway. I TRULY would like to own all of his
westerns.NP Big Jake
posted 04-13-2003 10:35 PM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

Love those westerns set in Arkansas, don't ya?Joan, I am listening to "Rooster" right now off a True Grit original soundtrack Capitol Records CD released sometime in the early/mid 90s (CDP 32163). I am believing it's a straight transfer from the LP release. Sound quality is pretty good, but again, I am suspecting the album presentation is a 1969 re-record for good listenin' experience ("Bernstein conducts instrumental selections, arranged by Artie Butler"). There's some great stereo separation, but there's a slight hollow sound to it all. Slight.
Silve Screen released an album called "True Grit" with a few selections recorded sometime in the 90s.... never gave it a listen, so can't say much.
As for Hallelujah Trail, the only thing on CD I am aware of is a recording that was tagged on to the nice New Zealand re-recording of The Magnificent Seven with James Sedares. I am thinking there are other suites on other comps, just can't recall them right now.....
posted 04-13-2003 11:22 PM PT (US) 
SirT

Standard Userer

Joan, as for a prospective release of "The Hallelujah Trail" soundtrack, if you read Robert Townson's detailed account of his search for the "Hawaii" session masters here, you will see that apparently such hopes have been dashed.[Message edited by SirT on 04-14-2003]
posted 04-14-2003 12:00 AM PT (US) 
lars b

Standard Userer

Well, selections of 'True Grit' are on Vol.1 of the Elmer Bernstein/John Wayne CD's. These are re-recorded selections issued on Varèse. Pretty good Cd's.
NP. Yokohama concert/Jerry Goldsmith.posted 04-14-2003 01:01 AM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

Hi Joan!I have 107 Elmer Bernstein CDs or CDRs.
The best representation of TRUE GRIT is the one on Varese Sarabande [THE FILMS OF JOHN WAYNE - VCD47236]. The duel with Ned Pepper is not included, but "The Pace That Kills" cue may include the motif played by the French [Freedom?] horns.
Without wracking my brain, too much, three early Elmer westerns, not released, are SADDLE THE WIND [probably within the bounds of FSMs contract w. MGM], THE TIN STAR, CANNON FOR CORDOBA [Bernstein doing pseudo-Morricone. Bernstein makes an appearance as a honky tonk piano player, bowler hat, and all.] There are some re-records [such as THE SCALPHUNTERS] I would like to see replaced by the original tracks.
Bob Bowd
posted 04-14-2003 05:54 AM PT (US) 
PeterD

Standard Userer

And if you don't own it already, you should seriously consider picking up the Buddy Morrow "Impact/Double Impact" CD for Bernstein's great RIVERBOAT theme. Okay, so it's Buddy Morrow's version, complete with boat whistles, but it's still a heck of a lot better than not having it at all.
posted 04-14-2003 06:39 AM PT (US) 
JEC
Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by SirT:
Joan, as for a prospective release of "The Hallelujah Trail" soundtrack, if you read Robert Townson's detailed account of his search for the "Hawaii" session masters here, you will see that apparently such hopes have been dashed.
[Message edited by SirT on 04-14-2003]Bernstein has mono backup copies of THE HALLELJUAH TRAIL in his collection. That was apparently where the HAWAII mono tracks were suppose to be.
posted 04-14-2003 06:50 AM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

PeterD:Ah, RIVERBOAT, indeed! I would love to have Elmer's underscore from that show. Also any of his scores for David Wolper's documentaries, but especially, D-DAY. I made a tape of the show, just to teach myself Elmer's triumphant and catchy theme.
BB
posted 04-14-2003 08:17 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by PeterK:
As for Hallelujah Trail, the only thing on CD I am aware of is a recording that was tagged on to the nice New Zealand re-recording of The Magnificent Seven with James Sedares.Which is a great recording, even better than the OST.

The OST is available on Tsunami. Sound quality varies between really bad to absolutely horrible and it's missing some great cues, but hey, it's better than nothing.
NP: Captain Blood (Erich Wolfgang Korngold)
posted 04-14-2003 08:41 AM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

Marian:Hi! The Tsunami is actually the UA re-recording. Elmer's original tracks are on the Ryko label, complete. Elmer's daughter, and frequent orchestrator, Emilie, assisten in the production of the release. It's definitive! Elmer also re-recorded the score - on a quickly withdrawn BMG disc, which is probably my second preference. Re-recorded with the RSNO. It isn't close-miked, so that's a drawback.
Bob
posted 04-14-2003 10:13 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Standard Userer

Whoops. Didn't know that.NP: Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves (Michael Kamen)
posted 04-14-2003 12:35 PM PT (US) 
perfpitch
unregistered
Whoa, Nelly!!!Selections from THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL have appeared on compilations of Bernstein's work, but a disc dedicated to that score has never been issued -- by Ryko, or anyone else.
THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN and THE GREAT ESCAPE were the only scores Bernstein re-recorded with the Scottish National Symphony for the ill-fated, and now-rare, BMG discs, NOT HALLELUJAH.
[Message edited by perfpitch on 04-14-2003]
posted 04-14-2003 02:12 PM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

Avie:You are quite right. A misread, on my part. I was thinking MAGNIFICENT, when clearly Marian was talking about HALLELUJAH. Sorry, to all.
Whoa Nelly, indeed! Your canter [Do I see a Yiddish joke coming our way?] I can keep up with, but your galloping, I cannot.
BB
posted 04-14-2003 02:39 PM PT (US) 
perfpitch
unregistered
"Well, then, let's fly! I'm dying for a canter."-- Senora Inez Quintero (Gale Sondergaard) to Don Diego Vega (Tyrone Power) in THE MARK OF ZORRO (1940, music by Alfred Newman and Hugo Friedhofer)
A good thing she wasn't appearing in THE JAZZ SINGER (1927), or she'd have been as disappointed as the Al Jolson character's parents...
[Message edited by perfpitch on 04-14-2003]
posted 04-14-2003 09:26 PM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

I'm laughing, Avie! Now I am pumped with endorphins, for the day.BB
posted 04-15-2003 04:06 AM PT (US) 
Jim M

Standard Userer

Love Hallelujah Trail..Thanks Joan!
I'm still hoping for a release of "Katie Elder"..We can hope..
posted 04-15-2003 06:54 AM PT (US) 
John F

Standard Userer

I am sorry, but nothing beats THREE AMIGOS!!!!! The best "Bad-Guy" theme he ever penned... El Guapo!
John F
posted 04-15-2003 09:04 AM PT (US) 
Graham Watt

Standard Userer

Ah yes, unreleased Elmer westerns! I like the main theme to that one Bob mentions, CANNON FOR CORDOBA, a splendid piece. That vibrant opening is almost like a kind of schizophrenic mix of Irish and Mexican. Can't remember any of the rest of the score.Looking back at Bernstein's western credits, it strikes me that the kinetic approach we usually associate with him was all but absent in his earlier scores. I don't think either THE TIN STAR or DRANGO had any of that, although they were kind of downbeat films anyway. Maybe the galloping Bernstein sound didn't make an appearance until THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN. I'm just really thinking aloud here, so forgive the inconsistent rambling, but it does seem that the Bernstein western sound we know and love may owe an awful lot to Jerome Morross and THE BIG COUNTRY. Just look at the dates.
posted 04-15-2003 10:18 AM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

Graham:I agree, completely, with your analysis of Bernstein's western voice. No Moross... no Bernstein... no Broughton... no Richard Stone... no Poledouris... and others... [alluding only to western main themes, here]. Morross's Americana voice shows up, again in his "Sonata for Piano Duet and String Quartet" (1975). BIG JAKE, on the other hand, I have always felt owed a lot to Elmer's mentor, Aaron Copland.
I remember rushing to THE TIN STAR, expecting the score would presage MAG 7, a couple years, later. I was disappointed!
BB
posted 04-15-2003 10:35 AM PT (US) 
joan hue

Standard Userer

Appreciate all of the information I’ve received on this thread. Sounds like there is an
OOP CD of True Grit, or at least I should be able to find the John Wayne CD.I do think Bernstein’s indelible western style began with Magnificent Seven. I can’t say I've
noticed a connection to The Big Country, however. Perhaps in the rhythms. I watched
Saddle With The Wind a few weeks ago which really didn’t sound like his signature style
nor does The Tin Star. I’ve never found Cannon for Cordoba on video, but I hope it will
play sometime on TV. I need to check out Three Amigos.I used to own the LP Sons of Katie Elder, and its main theme has been released on various
compilations. A lot of people think it is Magnificent Seven aka Marlboro Man because of
its orchestrations and rhythms. Very closely related and an outstanding filmscore.Peter Bernstein showed a similar gift in Rough Riders. (Elmer contributed a wonderful
theme.) This is a fine movie out on video with extraordinary score. If you haven’t seen it
or heard it, check it out. I’d like to see Peter get more scoring jobs.posted 04-15-2003 04:18 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

2 cents--Cannon for Cordoba played on TCM a few months back, so it may show up there again in the future.There are VHS copies of a variety of Riverboat episodes floating around from video companies. You get the amazing theme and depending on the episode you get a score by EB, which is either original or stock. But watch-out because I think the theme is by someone else for the 2nd season. Also, a number of composers contributed to Riverboat so the episodes could be a mish-mash of stock cues.
posted 04-15-2003 08:52 PM PT (US) 
PeterD

Standard Userer

For those who have never heard the RIVERBOAT theme, here's a handy website for TV Western themes:
www.walker47.com/w47/nickelodeon/sound%20tthemes.htmIf you scroll down to RIVERBOAT and click on it, you can listen to the Buddy Morrow version in its entirety. Too bad they don't have Bernstein's version.
(As Lou mentioned, Bernstein's theme only lasted for the first season; it was replaced in the second season with a new theme by Gerald Fried.)
Bernstein is quoted in Jon Burlingame's book, "TV's Biggest Hits," as saying that RIVERBOAT was his "first chance, really, to go all out" with an Aaron Copland-inspired, American folk music sound: "It's kind of hindsight, but I realize now that THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN was a logical outgrowth of RIVERBOAT."
[Message edited by PeterD on 04-15-2003]
posted 04-15-2003 11:11 PM PT (US) 
Bob Bowd
Standard Userer

PeterD:That's fascinating! I really must pick up a copy of Burlingame's book. I'll check Books In Print and ask the university bookstore to get me a copy. Will also check for "The Newmans of Hollywood", at the same time.
Thanks!
BB
posted 04-16-2003 07:33 AM PT (US) 
Merv Denman

Non-Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by joan hue:
I guess this is the area we post now for soundtrack finders.Last week I watched [b]True Grit for the first time is a gazillion years. I really liked
Bernstein’s score, but then he composes definitive western music IMHO. I love that
short action piece when Rooster charges the villains with guns blazing. Anyway, does
anyone know if this has been issued on a CD?Are there other westerns by Bernstein that have not been issued on CD yet? (I know
Hallelujah Trail was only issued on LP, and thanks be to the gods, a dear friend made
me a CDR from a LP. I’ve built a shrine around that CDR and light candles to it each
day.
) I’d like to know what other Bernstein westerns are not on CD so I can start some
sort of campaign. You know, figure out how many ritual sacrifices I have to make to get
these. Too many cats in the neighborhood anyway. I TRULY would like to own all of his
westerns.NP Big Jake[/B]
posted 05-16-2004 12:21 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Standard Userer

I like just about every western score hes done, Joan, including those cues for the TV film Rough Riders, a few years back. Great stuff.Speaking of him, how many have you noticed his music in Rage in Harlem has quite abit of resemblance to Rat Race and other earlier jazz scores?
And how many of you noticed that some of the Zulu Dawn battle music is in the Eternal Sea score by him from 1955?
By the way, two very underrated scores of his are See No Evil, with that driving main title and Bridge at Remagen with the great end title march. Great stuff. J.
posted 05-22-2004 06:16 PM PT (US) 
joan hue

Standard Userer

Yeah, John, his C troop theme in Rough Riders was just great!Haven't heard nor seen a few of the movies you mentioned like Rage In Harlem, See No Evil, and Eternal Sea. I better check out the video stores.
posted 05-22-2004 09:37 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
