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Author	Topic: Sequel Scores ineligible for future Oscars?

Eruname Reman	Go to this link and read the article: http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/cl-et-burlingame18jan18,0,4912025.story?coll=cl%2Dcalendar What does everybody think about a score being ineligible because it has themes used previously in another score? I think its a load of crap. There are too many sequels, trilogies, etc that MUST have returning themes such as Star Wars, Harry Potter, LOTR, James Bond, and Indiana Jones to name a few. I think its a shame and an outrage to disqualify any award-worthy music.
posted 01-18-2003 10:04 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Romulan	Hey, to my way of thinking, if I re-use every cue in one score that came from some other score and it captivates, then that should be that. But I suppose the Academy takes the word Original pretty seriously. Still, if you write new music in a sequel but use themes from a previous film, it seems that you should still be eligible for an award. But I don't make the rules. One nice fallout from this might be the end of nominations for James Horner, but I don't suppose we could be that lucky.
posted 01-19-2003 12:30 AM PT (US)

HadrianD Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Lou Goldberg: One nice fallout from this might be the end of nominations for James Horner, but I don't suppose we could be that lucky. YEah, like the AAMPS is the pinnacle of good taste
posted 01-19-2003 12:38 AM PT (US)

James Phillips Reman	At least this should also prevent people like Bill Conti, who liberally used portions of Tchaikovsky's work in his underserved win for THE RIGHT STUFF, from winning another Oscar.
posted 01-19-2003 04:07 AM PT (US)

Kevin Romulan	Horner will never get another Oscar nom.
posted 01-19-2003 04:20 AM PT (US)

Eruname Reman	I must be in the minority. I really like Horner's music...even if it does sound the same sometimes. I can see how this rule would be good. Maybe there should be a percentage of new music or something like that. It would suck if 90% of the score was new but that 10% kept a composer from getting a nomination. So aside from James Horner do you all agree with disqualifing future Harry Potter, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, James Bond and LOTR scores?
posted 01-19-2003 05:02 PM PT (US)

Jared Cowing Romulan	Complete and total outrage. By doing this they'd be ignoring some of the greatest works being written currently. Repeating of themes is not copying- it's theme development. Simply the way you shape a theme and the path it leads through the film is the whole point of much music. How can you expect a piece of music to hold form without themes? By calling LoTR, Star Wars, or any other scores illegitimate, they just spat in the face of some of the greatest works made for film. Further proof that the Academy is the redefining model of incompetence, egos, and ignorance.
posted 01-19-2003 05:53 PM PT (US)

Hornerfan Romulan	Guys, don't forget: the composers themselves nominate the 5 scores for Best Score at the Oscars. I don't know what the composers think of the man himself, but if his music wasn't either a)good or b)highly supportive of the films they accompany, I don't think Horner would have ever gotten any nominations. Even if they seem somewhat near sighted (read: only nominate recent scores), I'd like to think other composers know more about music, and movie music, than I. Mike
posted 01-19-2003 08:03 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Romulan	I'm with Jared on this. I think it was wrong to give Rota a hard time back in the 70s because The Godfather theme was originally from another film. So what. It's in The Godfather, it's composed in context with the film, like it or not but don't disqualify it. And it is a slightly different version, which is theme development. And if I score my pants off for something and reuse some themes from a prequel that means my score isn't the best--what a crock! It's true that the composers pick the nominees but the whole Academy votes and they decide who gets qualified so even if the composers want to nominate a sequel score they can't now. As for Horner bashing which I do at every opportunity and at the drop of a hat, perhaps I shouldn't have brought that into the discussion, but I couldn't resist. As for Conti's score for The Right Stuff, I think this is a unique case. I think he was faced with a temp score of just about every major classical piece there was from The Planets on down and he did such a good job of reworking that material into a coherent score that they gave him the award. Only the march theme is Conti's really (I think) and the rest out does Horner for cribs but listening to other Conti makes it obvious that Conti doesn't usually crib this obviously or to this extent.
posted 01-19-2003 09:15 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	They confuse themes with music. You can write music without any themes, so why do you have to write new themes for a score that doesn't need them? Or rather, why does EVERY theme you use have to be new? Most sequel scores wouldn't work that way. "Act II"-type scores like TTT couldn't possibly work that way. And then it's nothing bad either to include a quote from some pre-existing piece if it makes sense in the movie. This either will have no effect at all on the music (and just prevent composers from great scores to be nominated occasionally). Or it might give some people the idea to write entirely "new" scores for sequels...
posted 01-20-2003 10:04 AM PT (US)

Camillu Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Marian Schedenig: Or it might give some people the idea to write entirely "new" scores for sequels... I see your point, but then again if a composer is ready to sacrifice the needs of the film in order to have a shot at an Oscar then he deserves to score made-for-Tv detective serials for the rest of his life.
posted 01-20-2003 01:05 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	Agreed. But what if the director/producer forces him? Unlikely probably, but then, some of these guys are really weird...
posted 01-20-2003 04:00 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Romulan	There are alot of permutations to this. Some composers might refuse to do sequels because they won't be nominated. This opens it up for other composers to come in except, like William Ross on Harry Potter, they'll have to use themes not originally by themselves. Another permutation is that sequels will have totally original scores to qualify which will take some of the cohesion out of watching these things. A likely permutation is that composers will score their pants off for sequels and get no rewards for it even if they are deserving. This leads to another permutation where composers won't score their pants off in sequels but just re-use as much of the previous music as possible and coast through the rest because there'll be no glory in working overtime. There are probably other paths this can lead to but I can't foresee them right now. In the end though, it's probably that nothing will change in terms of how things are done or the quality of output. It's just that deserving scores will be overlooked and so scoring sequels will become a slightly more thankless job for whoever does it. What's odd though is that with Hollywood screaming to turn every film into a franchise that they'd allow the Academy to penalize composers who work on franchises without putting pressure on it not to do this. This is just another indication that the industry doesn't care for its composers anymore than it cares for its writers.
posted 01-20-2003 09:20 PM PT (US)

HadrianD Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Lou Goldberg: This is just another indication that the industry doesn't care for its composers anymore than it cares for its writers. A sad fact...
posted 01-21-2003 01:14 AM PT (US)

Will Romulan	Looking at the rate of sequels coming out nowadays (I've got 12 for last year and about 9 for this year, did I leave out any? ), they should come out with a category for <b>Best Original Score for a Sequel</b>! Hey, they came out with a new category when the award went to the Disney movies every year in the early 90's, so what the heck? NP The Fellowship of the Ring
posted 01-21-2003 06:49 AM PT (US)

Ed Romulan	Actually, I don't think the new policy will change anything. Academy voters rarely give awards to sequels in general (beyond the tech categories) so this will affect only nominations, not the awards. Also, this could be a great way for the Academy (music branch) to get off their butts and listen for the next wave of new talent. I love Williams, but the last thing he needs is another nomination at this point. Let's "share the love" and recognize someone for whom an Oscar (or even a nomination) could really make a difference. [Message edited by Ed on 01-21-2003]
posted 01-21-2003 11:16 AM PT (US)

Philipp Romulan	As I just heard, Shore�s TWO TOWERS is now accepted for the Oscars. Philipp np: swashbucklers sampler
posted 01-21-2003 02:52 PM PT (US)

metaphor123 Reman	I think the whole affair is ridiculous. Why introduce such an artificial rule? Will sequels be ineligible to be nominated for a best picture oscar further down the track? (Yes, I realise that only once has a sequel won the Oscar for best picture). And as for someone suggesting that 'Williams doesn't need another Oscar' - well, if his work is deserving, then yes he does.
posted 01-21-2003 05:15 PM PT (US)

Bulldog Romulan	...which it oh-so-rarely is.... To reply to Marian, a score could easily be non-thematic--although it really shouldn't be.
posted 01-22-2003 05:15 AM PT (US)

Eruname Reman	quote: Originally posted by Philipp: As I just heard, Shore�s TWO TOWERS is now accepted for the Oscars Yeah, as the article stated, the rule will be taking place next year. But I believe that Shore's name was not on the list of people to be considered to nominated because the ballots (or whatever they use) had already been sent on jan. 10...before it was decided that Shore' score would be eligible. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
posted 01-24-2003 08:07 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Bulldog: *To reply to Marian, a score could* easily be non-thematic--although it really shouldn't be.** And that is why?
posted 01-25-2003 03:03 AM PT (US)

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