Your thoughts?

Philipp

np: superman (john williams, rhino edition)

A few small parts of the score really annoy me, both on the CD and in the film. One piece that comes immediately to mind is the end of the "Death of Jonathan Kent" cue. All of the sudden there is this flourish of crap as the camera rises up over the field. I guess John was trying to get a lot of emotion or something out of a boring shot, but failed. Again, he does a similar thing in "Leaving Home."

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
All of the sudden there is this flourish of crap as the camera rises up over the field. I guess John was trying to get a lot of emotion or something out of a boring shot, but failed. Again, he does a similar thing in "Leaving Home."

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And that's called one of the greatest thematic and emotional moments in film music.

I guess some people don't know how to appreciate the really good stuff....

Kosh

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
Why is it that any time I make a comment which attempts to criticize anything, and the STPD come in and ****ing make it personal?

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
Why is it that any time I make a comment which attempts to criticize anything, and the STPD come in and ****ing make it personal?

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What a brilliant, epic, yet beautiful and elegant score!

I have always preferred SUPERMAN being a thousand times better score than any of Williams' STAR WARS scores.

And Jonathan L... let's just say, once again, that matters of taste can't be debated... I find the both cues you hate EXTREMELY EMOTIONAL

Best Wishes

Philipp

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Or the DVD - the iso score supposedly sounds a lot better than the poor-sounding Rhino release. Though it probably isn't as complete.

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how could an isolated score not be as "complete" as the soundtrack release? especially considering that the DVD does have the extra music cues on it as a supplement.....

"Or the DVD - the iso score supposedly sounds a lot better than the poor-sounding Rhino release. Though it probably isn't as complete"

I have both the DVD isolated score and the "Rhinophonic" release and I would have to agree with you that the DVD sounds better. Also, it is as complete a score as any film score can be within the film itself if you get my meaning!!
O.K. So it may not contain all the various different versions of the music, e.g. the version of the theme where the Tuba player accidentally broke wind and as luck would have it, his fart came out in Bb and incredibly matched the music perfectly!! Those kind of recordings!
To be honest, I get a bit fed up of "Can you read my Mind?" ad nauseum on the Rhino release, so from this perspective, the isolated score is better IMHO!

Gae

Just don't start your first listening of this album with the alternate march that starts disc 2. That's probably the worst sounding track on there. You can hear the tape dragging really bad about 1:25-1:35 into the track and the high end is really cut off as well.

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
how could an isolated score not be as "complete" as the soundtrack release?

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Unused cues, shortened cues, replaced cues...I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if they butchered the music in any way.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
I haven't seen the movie

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Wow. So you've been dealing with a lot of conjecture and 2nd-hand info in this thread!

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Originally posted by TV's Frank:
The first 40-50 minutes of the film and the score are some of the most extraordinary music Williams has ever composed, bar none.

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True, true. The post-Smallville part of the score is good, but it gets a little tired and it lacks inventiveness at times. But that's a minor quibble given how great it all is.

But the Americana music he comes up with for Smallville, "Growing Up", "Jonathan's Death", and "Leaving Home", that's just amazing. Thoroughly emotional and the Smallville Theme is just so beautiful and heartbreaking.

Kosh

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Originally posted by TV's Frank:
Now I making sense!

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LOL!

Kosh

And I like the DVD score.. but CDs are always better than listening to the isolated score.. since you always have to fast forward to the music and stuff. Plus unless u have a DVD drive and the right software, you can't record your favorite tracks into a John Williams mix

You guys failed to mention the really cool rescue music and some of the action sequences in the end. Especially the quaint music when he rescues "Frisky" from the tree. I found it very effective.

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:

A few small parts of the score really annoy me, both on the CD and in the film. One piece that comes immediately to mind is the end of the "Death of Jonathan Kent" cue. All of the sudden there is this flourish of crap as the camera rises up over the field. I guess John was trying to get a lot of emotion or something out of a boring shot, but failed. Again, he does a similar thing in "Leaving Home."

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I'm sorry you don't care for that sequence.
To me that is the essential ingredient in giving this film the epic quality, as opposed to just any old film. Its what separates the Superman, from the spiderman.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
I guess too much of the score is simply action cues followed by action cues followed by even more action cues.

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And this quote came from someone who thinks that THE FURY score - almost ONLY action cues - is the ultimate Williams masterpiece.

In my opinion the SUPERMAN score stands out from ALL Williams scores because of the incredible amount of themes and melodies. Plus that the music has some sort of orchestral magic in it (strings?) which makes the melodies seem so much more better than the too-brassy STAR WARS score.

My personal favorite is the wild cue in "To the Lair" (The Sonic Greeting), in which Clark climbs out from the window and flights to confront Luthor.

About the sound quality stuff --- It's true that the RHINO release has a more high quality sound than the earlier releases of the soundtrack. However, when I was doing some of my own remasterings on this very score, I and my recording engineer friend we made a discovery that on some cues the London Symphony Orchestra plays curiously out of tune.

I might have said this before, but anyway, here I go babbling about it again. In the album version of the "For Gillian" cue (a very fantastic cue) there is this beautiful layering of the orchestra near the end. The strings and flutes are dancing around (1:45)... Then comes a nice little subdued timpani roll and with that the french horns come in and continue to crescendo. They disappear shortly after and we're left with an ending with just some dainty plucks to the violin strings and a chime... and a big smile on my face. Thumbs up.

I've never seen the film, and I have no idea what this is underscoring (and this piece of the cue doesn't seem to exist on the "film" version), but this is a nice track that is quite emotional (happy emotion) without becoming overpowering.

In my humble opinion.

"And I like the DVD score.. but CDs are always better than listening to the isolated score.. since you always have to fast forward to the music and stuff."

Personally, I love listening to the isolated score while watching the visuals. Sometimes, the relationship between the music and imagery is breathtaking and takes both music and visuals to another level.
It also lets us see exactly what Williams was composing for and how he responds, on a musical level, to particular imagery, characters and storyline. Its like an audio-visual masterclass without the lecture.
I also believe that great composers, like Williams, have an inherent understanding of composing music that fits perfectly with the editing and pace of action scenes etc as well as underscoring the emotional aspect.
For all these reasons and more, I love watching Superman and other films while listening to the isolated score.
The films never get boring either, as with each viewing, new wonderful moments are discovered. It may be nothing more than how the camera cuts from one view to another just as some swirling strings come in or a stab of a brassy motif during a fight, or the motion of Superman as he chases after the Bomb to William's frenetic scoring and snippets of the Superman theme. One of my favourite visual-music moments is when, after discovering Lois lane dead in her car, he suddenly, enraged, runs to the car and rips the door of...the music has a sudden swirling strings motif which just fits the scene perfectly, not only showing us the speed and urgency of Superman but also his inner angst.
This is what great film scoring is all about and there are several wonderful examples in "Superman: The Movie"

Gae NP Hammer Film Music Vol 2

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Originally posted by Ken S:
And this quote came from someone who thinks that THE FURY score - almost ONLY action cues - is the ultimate Williams masterpiece.

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But Fury hardly has any action music at all. It's more drama scoring.

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In my opinion the SUPERMAN score stands out from ALL Williams scores because of the incredible amount of themes and melodies.

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I agree that it has many great themes. Great themes alone don't make a great score though, which is why I find parts of this score great, but the thing as a whole not quite that great.

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Plus that the music has some sort of orchestral magic in it (strings?) which makes the melodies seem so much more better than the too-brassy STAR WARS score.

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That's interesting, because I see it the other way round....I've always found the action stuff on Superman to be over-brassy, and prefer the SW scores for that reason...

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
how could an isolated score not be as "complete" as the soundtrack release? especially considering that the DVD does have the extra music cues on it as a supplement.....

Dan

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I also don't care much for the music after Superman arrives at Luthor's lair. Then it just seems to be wallpaper (though better than the wallpaper he would compose for some future action films).

The first hour is gorgeous. The second hour is a little disjointed, but saves itself in the last 15 minutes. Great music as Superman reverses the world.