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Topic: LORD OF THE RINGS Analysis?
Maestro Sartori
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Does anyone know where there is a detailed analysis of the score albums and the progression of themes? I want to know what names to give to the motifs and who they belong to, and what scenes they play over and such. I can't get enough of Rohan's Theme and Gollum's Theme. But I know that there are more to know about. Anyone?J.C.
posted 12-26-2002 10:42 PM PT (US) lars b
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http://www.scorereviews.com/features/themesofthering.asp
posted 12-27-2002 02:00 AM PT (US) Maestro Sartori
Standard Userer
Okay,...that's an interesting set of guesses so far. (In reading his TTT review, I disagree strongly with his opinion that Shore didn't further develop the theme used for Gollum in Fellowship, but rather created a brand new motif. On the contrary, it is developed. It's the same sound and mournful theme.)Anyone else know of something?
posted 12-27-2002 02:22 AM PT (US) Lancelot
Standard Userer
I don't see how a few (possibly sorrowful?) notes heard for the few moments that Gollum is mentioned in "Fellowship" becomes anything indicative of a theme...(??) Which would leave the palatte open to create a fully formed theme for "Towers"--If anything, it seems as though may be staring too hard at the picture, trying to see things that aren't there....
posted 12-27-2002 06:03 AM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Standard Userer
1) Gollum does have a very clear theme in FOTR. It's played during the prologue when he is in his cave, when Bilbo says "it's mine, my own, my preciousss" and when Gollum appears in Moria.2) This is somewhat interesting. Most of it isn't new, but the "9 note minor motif" for Gondor/Men is something I haven't noticed so far.
NP: Between the Buttons (The Rolling Stones)
posted 12-27-2002 06:51 AM PT (US) dgoldwas
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
the "9 note minor motif" for Gondor/Men is something I haven't noticed so far.Well, they describe it as " 9 note minor motif heard over the title of both movies, when Boromir goes for the Ring at the council of Elrond (extended version) and when the Fellowship pass by the Argonath"
Uhhh.. actually that's the Ring theme. Howard has said so multiple times.
Dan
posted 12-27-2002 08:33 AM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Standard Userer
Hmm, isn't that theme mentioned separately in the list? Can't remember. The Ring theme does have 9 notes though, so I guess you're right.
posted 12-27-2002 10:39 AM PT (US) Wickenstein
Standard Userer
No, the analysis at the Onering.net has a lot of inaccuracies. I'll give him credit for identifying the themes, but some of what this Simon fellow wrote is false.He calls Gollum's theme from the first film a theme for the ring.
He calls the Hobbit's theme a theme for the Fellowship
Worst of all, he calls the actual theme for the ring a theme for Men/Gondor!?!?
[Message edited by Wickenstein on 12-27-2002]
posted 12-27-2002 11:59 AM PT (US) Benford
Standard Userer
I assume that the Gollum theme which is heard in Fotr and in variations in the Two Towers stands for the sad connection of Gollum and the ring.
The dulcimer theme which is heard for example at the end of the two towers in the bassoons stands for gollum as person.
posted 12-27-2002 04:10 PM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Wickenstein:
He calls the Hobbit's theme a theme for the FellowshipI think he wasn't referring to the Hobbit theme but to the Journey theme. Still, it's the Journey theme, not the Fellowship theme.
posted 12-28-2002 05:45 AM PT (US) Camillu
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by dgoldwas:
Uhhh.. actually that's the Ring theme. Howard has said so multiple times.Strangely enough, it seems that the idea that this is a theme for Gondor comes from Shore himself.
On the 3rd commentary track of the extended DVD, Shore says that the ring theme is in fact a Gondor theme (??) which is why we hear it in full splendour at Argonauth (those statues mark the old border of Gondor).
I was quite puzzled when I heard this, since I'm not to clear about the link etc., but this suggests that we might be hearing an interesting development of the 'ring' theme in ROTK.
posted 01-01-2003 01:29 PM PT (US) dgoldwas
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Camillu:
On the 3rd commentary track of the extended DVD, Shore says that the ring theme is in fact a Gondor theme (??) which is why we hear it in full splendour at Argonauth (those statues mark the old border of Gondor).Maybe he was referring to the choral bit leading up to the Ring theme statement? (I haven't watched it with that commentary yet...)
Dan
posted 01-01-2003 06:43 PM PT (US) Wickenstein
Standard Userer
Shore said that, huh? Hmmm, that's pretty odd. I stand corrected I guess.What does Gondor have to do with the title, Lord of the Rings. Is this supposed to be a dual purpose theme?
posted 01-01-2003 06:56 PM PT (US) dgoldwas
Standard Userer
Just finished the DVD with the first commentary, but I jumped to the Argonath scene and flipped on the 3rd commentray track to see what Shore said. He basically refers to it as a "history of the ring theme", and then goes on to talk about Gondor.Dan
posted 01-01-2003 07:32 PM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Standard Userer
That makes sense. For the Ring's "effects", there are other themes (that downward staccato theme often combined with the Nazgul choir, and the boy soprano seduction theme). And as far as I remember, my first thought when I heard it for the first time was "this is ancient".NP: The Beatles 1967-1970
posted 01-02-2003 07:05 AM PT (US) What'sTatersPrecious?
Non-Standard Userer
I thought I'd use my first ever post to revive this thread! It was I who posted that list of themes over at TheOneRing.net. Seeing as I've since been put right about a couple of things, perhaps it's time for me to do an updated list? With everyone's combined thoughts and observations, perhaps we can make it definitive! The list below is in order of first occurrence in the films (I think):1) "Lothlorien Theme" - psalm-like minor theme most commonly used to represent Galadriel and Lorien. Also known as '"The Temptation Theme", as it is additionally used when men are tempted by the One Ring. Can be heard when the Fellowship first enter Lothlorien.
2) "History of the Ring" - 9 note minor motif often identified as "The Ring Theme", although it is also associated with the story of Men, and, in particular, Gondor. Can be heard over the title "The Lord of the Rings" at the start of each movie.
3) "The Nazgul Theme" - minor theme often sung by large choir or played on trumpets, associated with the Ringwraiths. The underlying part of this theme, which is a downward progression played on strings, could well be a theme for the Numenoreans. Can be heard when the 'Wraiths attack the four Hobbits at Weathertop.
4) "Mordor/Sauron Theme" - shrill, evil sounding theme, representing the Dark Lord and his land. Can be heard when we first see Sauron's tower of Barad-Dur. The "Lothlorien Elves' Theme" appears to be a variation on this.
5) "Gollum's Precious" - 8-note minor motif often identified as "Gollum’s Theme", although more accurately it is associated with the relationship between Gollum and the One Ring. Can be heard when we first see Gollum in his cave during the Prologue.
6) "Frodo's Theme" - warm, hymn-like theme played often in many variations. Also known as 'The Journey Theme' or 'The Hobbit's Theme', although it is most commonly used during scenes that are centred on Frodo. Can be heard when Frodo and Sam take their first step out of the Shire.
7) "Hobbiton Theme" - a variation on "Frodo's Theme" heard specifically in, and in connection with, Hobbiton and the Shire. Can be heard during Gandalf and Frodo's ride into Hobbiton.
8) "Gondor Theme" ? - a short, trumpet fanfare, possibly associated with the city of Gondor. Can be heard when Gandalf rides to Gondor to research the One Ring.
9) "The Fellowship Theme" - bombastic, heroic theme used to represent the bond between the members of the Fellowship of the Ring. Can be heard when the Fellowship first set out from Rivendell, crossing the mountains. A minor variation is sometimes used, such as when Gandalf rides to Isengard to seek the help of Saruman.
10) "The Uruk-Hai Theme" - a minor 6 note motif based in a 5/4 time signature. Also associated with Saruman and Isengard, but mostly with the White Wizard's fighting Uruk-Hai warriors. Can be heard when the first party of Uruks leave Isengard to pursue the Fellowship.
11) "Nature Theme" - minor theme, sung by a boy soprano, and associated with the struggle between nature and the onslaught of industry (specifically Isengard). Can be heard first when Gandalf whispers to the moth when imprisoned at the top of Orthanc, and more prominently when the Ents march on Isengard.
12) "Arwen's Theme" - soft, sweet theme, sung by mixed voices and associated with the elf-maiden Arwen. Can be heard when she first appears to Frodo after his encounter with the Ringwraiths.
13) "Rivendell Theme" - spiritual-sounding theme based around arpeggios, played on strings with choir singing the melody. Associated with Rivendell, and the Elves who dwell there. Can be heard when Frodo first set foot outside in Rivendell.
14) “Aragorn’s Theme” ? - noble brass motif, possibly associated with Aragorn and his destiny as King. Can be heard when Legolas defends Aragorn at the Council of Elrond.
15) “The White City” ? - bittersweet brass motif, possibly associated with the people of Gondor. Can be heard when Boromir describes Gondor to Aragorn in Lorien.
16) "Gollum/Smeagol's Theme" - part creepy string section with plodding accompaniment, part soft, eastern-flavoured theme played on a cimbalom. Associated with the character of Gollum, and his alter ego Smeagol. Part can be heard when he first appears in “The Two Towers”, and part when he begins to lead Frodo and Sam to the Black Gates.
17) "Rohan/King Theoden’s Theme" - beautiful, powerful theme, often played on a Norwegian fiddle called a hardinger, sometimes on brass, sometimes by a full orchestra. Associated with Rohan, it’s people, Edoras and it’s King Theoden. Can be heard when Gandalf and the Three Hunters arrive at Edoras.
18) "Ents/Treebeard Theme" - a slow, deep, ominous theme, played on brass and wooden percussion. Can be heard when Treebeard is walking through Fangorn Forest holding Merry and Pippin.
19) "Gandalf the White Theme" - high, triumphant theme played on strings with brass accompaniment. Associated with Gandalf the White in "The Two Towers". Can be heard when Gandalf rides with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to Edoras.
20) “Eowyn’s Theme” ? - lovely flowing string motif, probably used to represent Eowyn in “The Two Towers”. Can be heard when Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas arrive at Edoras, just before “Rohan/King Theoden’s Theme” is played.
posted 01-07-2003 07:30 PM PT (US) odinatheforestcat
Standard Userer
bump
posted 06-18-2004 06:55 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
LOTR analysis eh?Bump this:
http://groups.msn.com/SMME/_whatsnew.msnw
http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/012530.html
http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/012568.htmlposted 06-18-2004 07:11 PM PT (US) Oboeking1
Non-Standard Userer
You truly are the Lord of the Cues, Franz.Do you do it by just listening to the score, or do you have info on the cues from somewhere? It's really interesting to read. But either you just didn't feel like it, or forgot to mention that the "Ring theme" in the opening title sequence is different for all three movies. The TTT's opening has some sort of brass fanfare that opens into the ring theme, but in ROTK it opens up with a brilliant oboe solo ( ) then into the ring theme. Trixie Howard Shore.
posted 06-18-2004 08:55 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Oboeking1:
Do you do it by just listening to the score, or do you have info on the cues from somewhere?I listen myself. Definitely. I'm actually going through all this stuff again doing a second draft using a rip of the DVD audio.
quote:
It's really interesting to read. But either you just didn't feel like it, or forgot to mention that the "Ring theme" in the opening title sequence is different for all three movies. The TTT's opening has some sort of brass fanfare that opens into the ring theme, but in ROTK it opens up with a brilliant oboe solo ( ) then into the ring theme. Trixie Howard Shore.It isn't that I didn't feel like it, it's more that I didn't notice enough about the music when I started. As I'm going through again I'm paying more attention to the beginning in particular. One interesting thing about the TTT:EE opening is that the horn motifs that surround the statement of the Ring theme are extensions of the horn phrase heard at the end of each line of the Ring theme. The same three notes either ascending or inverted are the basis for much of the 'Foundations of Stone' cue. It truly it fascinating.
One nice thing about the ROTK opening is that the Ring theme is played over a waltz rhythm which is identical to an unused piece of music from the TTT album cue 'The Passage of teh Marshes'. Given the unused snippet was intended for the 'You called me Smeagol' scene, its appearance just before we see the origin of Gollum sequence was inspired.
posted 06-19-2004 01:47 AM PT (US) ridan
Non-Standard Userer
Lists of themes:
http://groups.msn.com/smme/fellowshipoftheringthemes.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/smme/tttta.msnwPlease note that these haven't been updated in a while. the most current analysis can be found in the discussions at http://groups.msn.com/smme/_whatsnew.msnw
posted 06-22-2004 06:02 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB