I for one have found the sequel score to be a worthy successor to the original. I saw the movie earlier today and took a nice, long walk with my CD player and the soundtrack CD. I had a copy of the score for a while, but only listened to it yesterday.

Each listen of the score, including seeing the film, added to my sense that Shore really took this score in a different direction while maintaining the drive and intensity of the original. This is a more hopeful score than its predecessor; much of the score is uplifting, even for the moments of great sorrow in the film (the arming of the children really got to me).

THE ORCHESTRATION:

One comes away from this score with the overall sense of horns. It seems that those who percieved that Shore was planning to use brass to represent Gondor weren't far off; it seems that noble French horns and bright trumpets are for the world of Men.

Another interesting element is that, while there is no shortage of percussion in the score, for the most part, time is kept elsewhere, by brass, by bass.

The color of the Norwegian fiddle is a nice one indeed. In addition to grounding Edoras and the Riddermark, it allows an interesting counterpoint to the more texturally complex choral works.

...and those choral works.

Shore's oevre contains the brilliant score, a cantata almost, for Al Pacino's Looking for Richard, and choral writing for this score is somewhere between Fellowship and this Looking for Richard.

Solo vocals are heard here several times; the most effective in the film (to my taste), was for Haldir's death. Shore communicates not only the sorrow of his passing, but works with the film's attention to that moment to impart how strange for the ageless Elves it is to be facing death. As in the original, the film mix often favors the music, allowing the texture of the score to envelop the viewer. Dreamy vocal passages still characterize the love between Aragorn and Arwen (a shame Aniron couldn't be developed, but what is developed in its place is so distinctive, I can't really complain) as in "Evenstar" and "Breath of Life"

The choir comes forth several times for moments of great power; the beauty of these moments is not lost in the film, where "Forth Eorlings" takes over the soundtrack and commands attention.

The harsh Dwarvish chanting from "The Bridge of Khazad-Dum" do return for Gandalf's battle with the Balrog, although the material is somewhat different here. This is a nice reference, isolated in the score as it was in the original.

THEMATIC DEVELOPMENT:

Familiar themes bubble to the surface, such as the primary Ring string theme in "The Black Gate is Closed" and the boy soprano melody from the Gandalf atop Orthanc in "A Knife in the Dark" return in "Isendgard Unleashed." The beautiful swirling strings for Rivendell return in "The Leave Taking," The theme for Lothlorien also is heard there, but then it is given a brassy, clarion call setting for the arrival at Helm's Deep of the Elves in "The Hornburg." The choral theme for the temptation of the Ring (The opening of "The Treason of Isengard," Boromir fingering the Ring in the mountains, the opening of "Amon Hen") is heard in "The Forbidden Pool," and I could go on... but the point really is that for the most part, this score is mostly new material with the hints from the earlier score serving as guideposts only.

The Fellowship theme bursts out defiantly towards the beginning of the score, but gradually becomes more muted over the course of the score as the new themes for the world of men become take over the heroism. Aragorn will not be taking the Fellowship theme to the throne with him, it seems. Rather, it truly seems to be connected to the trio of Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas. The purpose ceases to be a fanfare for the heroics of the band, but instead becomes a theme for the purity of their cause, an inspirational piece. It is when Aragorn rejoins of his companions and they each embrace him upon finding him alive that this theme is heard. This is a logical extension of how the Fellowship theme is heard at the very end of the first film (in "Amon Hen" and "The Breaking of the Fellowship").

Gollum's theme from the first film is developed into "Gollum's Song" in this one. The latter material is based on the former, but is truly a development as Gollum comes to the fore in the story, not as an icon, as he was in the original, but as a character in his own right. The digital effects on Gollum were very well rendered, allowing the character to come to life as though an actual character; his pathos is the stuff of epic opera, and Shore is well up to the challenge. The Gollum is afforded an understanding in the music much the way that Frodo pities him.

THE ALBUM:

This is a very busy score, and everything at the beginning of the score seems like a thematic fragment, just waiting for development. It is to the score's credit that in its full version (heard in the film) that it truly fulfills that. The album is, like the previous one, an abbreviated but very efficient capture of the passion in the original work. There is always, even at the moments of relative quiet in the score, there is a forward momentum that pulls you into its own progression.

THE MIDDLE OF AN EPIC:

Shore has compared his work on these two films to be like an opera. This is a decent comparison given the direction he has taken the score in this film; material from the first film is still being developed while new material is continually being added and blended.

Comparisons to The Empire Strikes Back are common, I've seen, and I am not averse to that either. Both scores go in different directions from their predecessors; Empire advances the language of the Star Wars universe to a twentieth-century idiom from Star Wars' 19th century Romanticism. The Two Towers takes the elements from Fellowship with it but reinvents it as it goes (the revision of the Lorien theme for the arrival of the Elves sent shivers up my spine in the theater, as did the reprise of the Breaking of the Fellowship motif in "Samwise the Brave"), but for the most part develops new music, changing the textures of the original for that of the new.

It is exciting, hearing how complex and dense this score is. What is most interesting is that it also adds to one's appreciation of the first film's score. Shore is certainly treating this like the golden opportunity he believed it to be. Both these scores are impressive works, and when heard in context of each other, the sheer magnitude of the achievement is staggering.

I was saying in the other thread I was very fond of the nods Shore gave to a couple of themes that had only previously been heard in the extended edition of Fellowship, notably a choir motif heard in the extended Amon Hen scene which is now heard in in orchestral form fairly early on as Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn are tracking the Uruk-Hai.

Forth Erolingas (the latter part of it) really comes at the most stunning of moments in the film, my two absolutely favourite shots as Gandalf charges down the hill on shadowfax toward helm's deep with a thousand riders behind him. Unreal as it hits the the soprano motif.

The Ents charing toward Isengard again saw the music whisk the stunning visuals to a new level, and again with the soprano singing the ents theme (which I liked hearing early on in the film for the first time in its very subtle form before Merry and Pippen enter Fangaorn)...

I've listened to both the Fellowship and Two Towers score back to back a couple of times, and it really does prove to be an increibly impressive musical journey, and to think Shore is probably saving the best for last...

Dan

I couldn't really take in the score in only one viewing so far, and I didn't have much time to listen to the CD yet. So there are only smaller bits I can contribute so far.

One of my favourite bits isn't on the CD either - when Shore combines the Uruk-hai rhythm with that choir motif (like he did in the extended FOTR) and then plays the Fellowship theme as a counterpoint to that. Magnificent!

In the movie, the rendition of the Fellowship theme during the hunt in the beginning was something I liked very much. Perhaps it was just the soundmix or the low volume in the theatre (for whatever reason), because the effect I'm going to describe isn't heard on the CD. But while the cue was very similar to the Bridge of Khazad-dum music (Fellowship theme in brass, swirling strings in-between), the brass playing seemed to be deliberately weaker to me. Still the same theme, but only for one third of the Fellowship.

The boy soprano theme I mentioned before seems to be for hope or some similar such broad concept. It is heard as the moth flies to Gandalf atop Orthanc, it is heard as the Ents march upon Isengard, and it is heard as Gandalf returns with Eomer at Helm's Deep. This is an interesting idea for a theme to follow; one which implies that other thematic elements follow a similar pattern (this is not neccesarily a new move; Ben's theme in Star Wars is adapted into becoming a theme for the Force and fate in general in the sequels).

I also wanted to once again chime in with how amazing I found the effect of Haldir's demise. It is wonderful to see such an interesting concept as an outsider's view of death illustrated in a film.

What comes across most, however, is that as great as the album is, and it is great, it is, as with Fellowship, just the tip of the iceberg in terms of fantastic music in this film.

I had to describe to my grandparents earlier today my experience watching this film, with this music... I said that, to my ears, a film score series has the power and complexity of Wagner's Der Ring Des Nibelungen. Hyperbole perhaps, but I truly feel that we are seeing something develop, a unique artistic achievement by Howard Shore. It is how these scores relate to one another and how they progress that fascinates me; this is film music history being made, in a way not seen since John Williams did Star Wars. This is a work of operatic heights. It is a great experience to be here, in the middle of the trilogy, knowing that the finale is coming.

I loved the score for Fellowship because of the quality of the music therein; I love the score for The Two Towers for the same reason... but also because it brings the former score into perspective. How the music develops over the course of not the one, but the two films, unified yet distinct. Or, more to the point, Each part a distinct element of the whole.

Of course, the differences in the narratives of the two films do make such analysis difficult; Fellowship, is, essentially, a quest picture, while The Two Towers is a war picture. As a result, there was more travelling being done in Fellowship, more worlds to uncover. Towers, by contrast, pretty much stays in one general location for most of the film. Because of the difference in narrative, the character of the music is narrowed in scope. Rather than allowing this to hinder him, Shore instead sharpens the focus, allowing moments like the jubilant return of Theoden to be powerful in their own right.

It is to Shore's credit that the music for the Rohan is as dense and engaging as it is, and that the material never gets stale over the course of the film. This is a work for the ages, I think.

NP - "The Hornburg" from a little movie you might have heard of...

Mostly, I was struck by an overwhelming human compassion for Gollum. He lived and breathed, he cried, he schemed, he warred against himself so fully and realistically, there was never a doubt in my mind that he was really there with Frodo and Samwise. The musical theme for him was mournful, sad, and almost defeating, because Gollum seems doomed to his double nature. I could detect his theme early on in Fellowship, but like the tragedies of the past, this theme becomes the crux of this story for me. Strider may be on his way to the throne, but who will stand in his way of destroying the Ring?

I know that Torrini's version of Gollum's theme begins at the credits and not actually in the forest region where they leave, but the song just seemed too tragic, which was not how I viewed Gollum by the end of the movie (I did feel sympathetic during his earlier scenes with the hobbits, but just not the very end, which the song apparently wanted to convey). I guess I just don't see the context here.

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Originally posted by Norman McCay:
I know that Torrini's version of Gollum's theme begins at the credits and not actually in the forest region where they leave, but the song just seemed too tragic, which was not how I viewed Gollum by the end of the movie (I did feel sympathetic during his earlier scenes with the hobbits, but just not the very end, which the song apparently wanted to convey). I guess I just don't see the context here.

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Keep in mind, it's still the same character. Gollum might not have been the most kind person in the beginning (we don't know), but most of his malice comes from the Ring. Remember Bilbo in FOTR, when Gandalf tries to convince him to leave the Ring for Frodo? He only had it for about 60 years as far as I recall, Gollum had it for five centuries. Moreover, Bilbo had friends (at least a few), Gollum sat alone all by himself in his cave in the Misty Mountains. Look at Frodo, and his fear of becoming like Gollum.

I think they showed very well how Smeagol got more control over himself for a while, when he felt that he had a purpose. But Sam's constant mistrust and threats against him, along with Frodo's "betrayal" (to Smeagol's eyes) at the Forbidden Pool were too much for him. He still tried to fight back, but apparently lost.

And then note how the song goes from "we" in the beginning to "you" in the final part. I think that sums it up perfectly. Gollum is certainly the most tragic character in the story.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
And then note how the song goes from "we" in the beginning to "you" in the final part.

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I only noticed that aftter 4 or 5 listens... very clever. Great song, use of song, and overall ending of the film IMO.

The film ends with Gollum. ROTK will almost certainly begin with Gollum. Anyone who knows the books knows what huge climactic event / character has been saved over for the next installment. "Her" as he hints...

The song fits and is in context by virtue of being a perfect link between the installments.

Marian Schedenig: "the "Moth theme" from FOTR returns in Isengard Unleashed. Any ideas what that could stand for?"

Nature.

Gandalf communes with an animal. It passes on a message, & he is saved.

Pippin & Merry commune with an Ent. He passes on a message, & they are saved. (Big time!)

PAUL TONKS

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Originally posted by Camillu:
I only noticed that aftter 4 or 5 listens...

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Yeah, me too.

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very clever. Great song, use of song, and overall ending of the film IMO.

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And those strings!

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Originally posted by PAUL TONKS:
Anyone who knows the books knows what huge climactic event / character has been saved over for the next installment. "Her" as he hints...

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I think the really big climax for Gollum comes even later...

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Nature.

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Hmm, interesting idea. I can't remember where it appears in the TTT movie, I just know the CD track. Will keep ears open when I see it again.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
And regarding the Gondor music...at some point in the movie (can't remember where), Shore played a really wonderful (string?) melody for Aragorn. Perhaps this might resurface in ROTK as well, for Gondor or for the crowning or whatever.

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Perhaps that's an Aragorn theme or something.

This "theme" is actually based on the Fellowship material. Listen for Fellowship’s first three pitches interspersed. The first hints of this material are heard in the Weathertop fight, but since there’s no Fellowship to refer to yet, the connections are somewhat more tenuous.

There is a theme, however, in Fellowship that may eventually come to represent Gondor and Aragorn in film three. Wait and see.

>>>The boy soprano "moth" theme may well stand for nature. A quieter version of the same theme is heard at the beginning when Merry and Pippin notice that the trees in Fangorn are making noise...
The only thing that throws a monkey into that wrench is that the boy soprano theme is also heard when Gimli goes to sound the great horn of the Deep, right before Gandalf shows up.>>>

Ah yes, but isn’t Gandalf sent back to Middle-earth by some sort of otherworldly element of nature? The connection actually works perfectly.

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Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
Camillu, your theory...

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Ahem!

Just my thought.

I have to agree with the 'nature' or 'hope' theme the original 'moth' theme has become. It was terribly poignant in the movie and such a lovely rendition. I almost wish he would not have used it at that point in the movie when Gimli goes to blow the horn though. We just heard it with the storming of Isengard and then it get used right again. I think a Rohan theme should have been used there as it isn't heard enough as someone else pointed out. As Gandalf rides to the rescue, it is the white rider theme. That music was great!

I just noticed the fellowship theme put on top of the uruk theme yesterday at my third viewing. It was so damn cool I had to contain myself. I also like how he put the new 'Gandlaf vs the Balrog' theme on top of the moria theme in that first fighting scene. Also a hard to contain myself point in the movie.

About Gollum's song. Shore, twice has used sort of a foreshadowing in his songs in 'In Dreams' and this last one. One to tell of Sam and Frodo or even the fellowship itself and how far they will go to defeat the enemy. The second one to tell of how Gollum and his alterego, Smeagol will meet their end. I love both to no end. I am at a loss as what he will do for ROTK but I am sure it will be brilliant.

Thanks again for the discussion. I have been longing for it as I like the score better than the movie at this point.

I think the boy soprano ‘moth’ theme could stand for the nature or hope, but probably, Shore didn’t really think on giving the theme to ‘someone’ or ‘something’, and he probably used it to create an emotional effect. Therefore it is heard twice and loud during the Helm’s deep battle: When the Ents go to Isengard, and when Gimli goes to blow the horn.

Rach