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NEMESIS! (Page 3)
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Topic: NEMESIS!

Bryan T
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I certainly hope it does rise again. But not for a while yet; the franchise is in desparate need of a rest.I'm not sure whose fault Nemesis was, and it really doesn't matter to me now. I actually thought it was a decent movie taken on it's own, but as part of the series it was indeed pretty lacking. It wasn't so much that it contradicted what had come before; it just ignored a lot of it, which is almost as bad. And I actually don't fault John Logan for that; I read part of his script, and there were a lot of character moments in there that made reference to past episodes and explained certain plot contrivances (such as what the heck Worf was doing back on the Enterprise).
The score is pretty decent, but not as good as Goldsmith is capable of, and it is pretty poorly represented onscreen. It just really seemed everyone's heart just wasn't in this one. A shame.
But John is correct; I am certain that in one way or another, Star Trek will return.

[Message edited by Bryan T on 01-16-2004]
posted 01-16-2004 10:37 AM PT (US) 
JoeinAr

Standard Userer

I certainly hope that Star Trek will take on another life in a form that represents itself at it best, ala TNG.Enterprise is terrible and while I want it to be good its not. I forsee a Dallas type event, where everything in Enterprise doesn't happen because of some "time" event.
posted 01-18-2004 02:04 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Standard Userer

Well, not trying to start a whole "this is better than that" debate, but my opinion stands that Enterprise, while not initially strong, has continued to be "enjoyable" since day one. Now, in its 3rd season, it's beginning to take a more solid shape, and the story is pointing in a very strong direction. I'm certainly looking forward to each new episode with excitement and anticipation, though I can understand why some might not. Then again, those are typically the TNG purists, who weren't that crazy about DS9 or Voyager, either. And go figure, I just finished my DS9 DVD collection, and am anxiously awaiting season one of Voyager to come out next month. I'll probably pick up the TNG discs after I've got everything else.As for Enterprise, I hope it sticks around for all seven seasons. I'm really interested in where it's going.
j
posted 01-18-2004 03:08 AM PT (US) 
HadrianD

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by Jeron:
Well, not trying to start a whole "this is better than that" debate, but my opinion stands that Enterprise, while not initially strong, has continued to be "enjoyable" since day one. Now, in its 3rd season, it's beginning to take a more solid shape, and the story is pointing in a very strong direction. I'm certainly looking forward to each new episode with excitement and anticipation, though I can understand why some might not. Then again, those are typically the TNG purists, who weren't that crazy about DS9 or Voyager, either. And go figure, I just finished my DS9 DVD collection, and am anxiously awaiting season one of Voyager to come out next month. I'll probably pick up the TNG discs after I've got everything else.As for Enterprise, I hope it sticks around for all seven seasons. I'm really interested in where it's going.
j
I'm one of those TNG fan who doesn't like Enterprise, but I did enjoy DS9 and portions of Voyager.... I just think that with Enterprise, they did a George Lucas and reinvented too much (history), and instead of allowing me to enjoy Enterprise as a glimpse into Trek origin, it became a revisionist/alternate origin crap which made me signed off on the series.
For me, Nemesis wasn't bad as a movie, but flawed as a series entry, and John Logan's script had some promise (and did make me very excited to see the movie) before Berman massacred it.
I'd rather all things Trek would rest now, and return when the crapmasters behind it have died.posted 01-18-2004 05:56 AM PT (US) 
Dinko

Standard Userer

quote:
Originally posted by HadrianD:
I just think that with Enterprise, they did a George Lucas and reinvented too much (history), and instead of allowing me to enjoy Enterprise as a glimpse into Trek origin, it became a revisionist/alternate origin crap which made me signed off on the series.Agreed. That's exactly what I dislike about Enterprise.
posted 01-18-2004 07:56 AM PT (US) 
justin boggan

Standard Userer

They screwed with the continuity, changed things to fit their whimsy and made the composers do half effort.You see, Enteprise isn't that bad. On it's own it's a fairly decent show. All they need to do is remove every element of Star Trek from it and not have it a Star trek spin off.
But there is lies the problem - then the show would have been cancelled by now. the only thing that has kept this show alive is it's Star Trek connection. Any other show that blah and bad would have been canned. UPN is just clinging to it, hoping it will get better and provide them with their much needed ratings boost. But besides the long gone TV show 7 Days, UPN hasn't provided us with even a half desent TV show. They crank out crap after crap.
Thought to be fair Dilbert wasn't that bad. Just needed some better writters.In an unrelated note to this post's inteneded topic, I think Christopher Tyng could easily score an Enterprise episode. Though having your name attachend to Star Trek these days isn't want it used to be.
posted 01-18-2004 09:17 AM PT (US) 
sean

Standard Userer

I'm the one who started this thread, and had to laugh at my original comments on Star Trek Nemesis.After some time and after purchasing the DVD and obtaining the complete score to the film, I have to say this film has many strengths and has many weaknesses, as well.
Jerry Goldsmith did a fine job with the score, and the only part that really lacks is a stronger theme, like that of First Contact, which is far and away one of his best Star Trek themes (The Mountain from The Final Frontier being my favourite). There are some stand-out action cues throughout the film, with tracks like "The Scorpion" and much of the unreleased material from "The Battle in the Rift" and also an excellent piece for the opening shot of the Enterprise (man, that piece was awesome to hear from the big screen). And finally, this score is better than Insurrection—I find the theme in that film to be too lite, but the action music to be on par with Nemesis, and better than much of the material in First Contact (though, "The Flight of the Pheonix" is really something).
It helped that John Logan was a fan of Star Trek and that it was a dream come true for him to write the script (hell, I'd like to do that!), but in the final cut there's a lot of problems. For one, a lot of the characters are lost or aren't given proper moments to shine (like Worf just disappears for the longest time near the end). Granted it's a story about Data and Picard, but the original Star Trek films were about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and were still able to pull off excellent character moments in the better films (The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home and The Undiscovered Country). So, it can be done, but it just wasn't. Now, the deleted scenes are pretty good, as well: like the "New Worlds" scene between Picard and Data is pretty touching for any Star Trek fan, and the final scene with the seat belt on Picard's chair is pretty funny, but they aren't like big moments for the other characters (unless I'm forgetting some of the other missing scenes here). Also, to make the end battle just about the Enterprise this time around just doesn't cut it—they did that in Generations and First Contact—it should have done the final conflict around Earth so there would have been more at stake than just the ship once again (and I know First Contact was not just about Enterprise but about the human race, but that finally Picard was going to blow up the ship). On top of that, there's also that awful action scene when they retrieve B4 from that planet—this scene is just so silly and it's no help to the film (that said, I'm fresh out of ideas for an alternative to that sequence). So, the stakes should have been higher, and other than that, nothing comes to mind... gotta run to hockey!
S.
posted 01-18-2004 09:58 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
