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Author	Topic: Gollum's Song

Norman McCay Romulan	As I just finished listening to the Two Towers, I was alarmed by the prominent use of the English language in Gollum's Song. When I refer to the language, I don't mean profanities or the such, but rather than it was sung out in straight English and I just couldn't quite understand the context of Emiliana Torrini's voice. Her voice remind me of a female Billy Corgan (don't know if anyone knows what I am writing about) trying her hands at world music. The carefully enunicated lyrics didn't help any, as they became overbearingly preachy at various points. But then again, I have always had my own bias against lyrical songs (I think lyrics tend to manipulate the listener on what they SHOULD think the music means, as opposed to going by how he intrinsically feels about the music). It's true that I don't know where exactly in the music world Ms. Torrini came from, so I am not exactly aware of her background training. The other songs of LOTR tend to be remain in Elven and other classical languages, and the other singers in Two Towers (even including English-singing Enya from FOTR) chose a more ethereal and aural approach to their performances (as perhaps suggested or even intended by Shore's composition), and I didn't have a hard time sitting through those, but for some reason Gollum's song just didn't resonate with me. In the end I guess I just didn't agree with Shore's decision on Gollum' Song. Yes, even in spite of the fact that Tolkien's own songs and his emphasis on languages were so instrumental in creating the atmosphere and history of Middle Earth in his novels. But then again, this is the movie version, not the novel. Just my preference, I suppose. I apologize if this topic was brought up before, but there are just too many LOTR/TTT topics to search and browse through....
posted 12-11-2002 08:15 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Romulan	Norman, "May It Be" was in English by Enya, over the end credits - just curious, but did you have the same complaint about that song as you do about "Gollum's Song", which runs over the end credits? You only give it a glancing mention in your post above... but I think the parallels are worth mentioning. Dan [Message edited by dgoldwas on 12-11-2002]
posted 12-11-2002 08:19 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	I don't know if you've read the novel, and I haven't heard a single note of the TTT score myself yet - but simply based on what I've read about Gollum's Song, it seems to fit the character very well. English...In Dreams from FOTR was in English also, as are all the hobbits' songs in the books, since Westron - their usual language - is what was "translated" to English in the novel. And Westron was Gollum's native language, too.
posted 12-11-2002 08:24 AM PT (US)

Norman McCay Romulan	Dan, It may sound hypocritical and ironic, but yes, I did enjoy "May It Be" tremendously. As I just started sifting through all the previous messages regarding Gollum's Song and Ms. Torrini's voice, who actually does sound like Bjork (thank you to those reminded me of her in the other messages), but whose style I believe just did not fit with a neo-medieval fantasy epic. Like I metioned before, Emiliana Torrini chose to sing the song in a clearly enunicated manner (sounding almost didactic), whereas Enya chose to inject bits of lofty and operatic grandeur into her song. That, for me, is where the difference lies.
posted 12-11-2002 08:28 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Norman McCay: Emiliana Torrini chose to sing the song in a clearly enunicated manner (sounding almost didactic), whereas Enya chose to inject bits of lofty and operatic grandeur into her song. That, for me, is where the difference lies. Well, fair enough - but I still feel it's a great song, and given how the film ends it's a perfect way to run the credits. So, maybe your opinion will change after seeing the film. Or maybe not. Dan
posted 12-11-2002 08:32 AM PT (US)

Norman McCay Romulan	Wise words, Dan. Just remember, my retraction of opinions ARE allowed once this ignorant mind is enlightened by the "truth" December 18....
posted 12-11-2002 08:39 AM PT (US)

James Romulan	I was with you Norman, until very recently. I was listening to the song (which I LOVE) quite recently for the 10th or 15th time, and I suddenly realized what makes Torrini's voice so apt for it: she sounds like Gollum!. Seriously, listen to the way he talks in Fellowship and TTT trailers we have so far.... it's almost as if Gollum himself were singing. As to the use of English, I think it's very appropriate. Hobbits have been speaking in "the common tongue" since before Smeagol's birth, so it would make no sense to have a song sung from his perspective in any other language. Kirk
posted 12-11-2002 01:19 PM PT (US)

JClark Romulan	In addition, the lyrics, while they may not be Grammy-caliber, are in form and tone somewhat reminiscent of the riddles that Gollum tells in The Hobbit--simple rhyming structures, simple thoughts. I think that the lyricists might have been aiming for that kind of association. But the fact that the credits list FIVE lyricists is a hint that people struggled somewhat in writing the song. I agree that they could have done better.
posted 12-11-2002 01:56 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Romulan	Yeah, that's a possibility. Still, a good song! Dan [Message edited by dgoldwas on 12-11-2002]
posted 12-11-2002 01:59 PM PT (US)

JClark Romulan	The booklet in the limited edition says: "Lyrics by Fran Walsh, Janet Roddick, David Donaldson, Steve Roche, David Long."
posted 12-11-2002 02:00 PM PT (US)

Quill Romulan	As I stated in the other TTT thread I feel that Gollum's song has perhaps the best theme from either score thus far. The lyrics themselves are poignant and capture the plight of Gollum perfectly. If these had been in elvish or what not, I think affect of the lyrics would have been lost. Besides, in the books I don't Gollum speaks anything but English. In regards to the vocalist...on the surface it appears to be an odd choice, and I know people have voiced some disdain with her voice. Again though, I think her vocals are perfect for Gollum--as mentioned earlier, she almost sounds like Gollum. I applaud Shore for going with a not so obvious approach. I just wish the theme itself received more playtime not only on the CD but in the film itself. Maybe it will live again in ROTK.
posted 12-12-2002 10:13 AM PT (US)

TimT Romulan	Hehe I just want to say how typical it has become of me to totally miss the lyrics of a song. I listen to instrumental music so much that all I hear the is music and melody of a song. I hear the voice, but only the sound of it I seem to only pay attention to. I seem to always zone out on what they are actually are saying. Weird huh?
posted 12-12-2002 10:42 AM PT (US)

Norman McCay Romulan	quote: Originally posted by TimT: Hehe I just want to say how typical it has become of me to totally miss the lyrics of a song. I listen to instrumental music so much that all I hear the is music and melody of a song. I hear the voice, but only the sound of it I seem to only pay attention to. I seem to always zone out on what they are actually are saying. Weird huh? I am almost tempted... "I don't think so, Tim." All kidding aside, I have to agree with Tim here. Lyrics become engrossed in the music and all of a sudden whatever intentions these lyricists had just get lost with me, as I simply immerse myself in the abstract melodies that accompany these "sounds" known as voices. Heck, the same thing with opera. I don't speak Latin and what not, but those arias sound pretty damn good anyway.
posted 12-12-2002 05:15 PM PT (US)

Quill Romulan	Well you know guys...if you actually listened to the lyrics of this song it might heighten its impact for you. There's a perfect play here between a disturbing/tragic theme and lyrics for Gollum which are truly disheartening. I'm not saying you haven't listened to the lyrics or read them in the booklet, but if you allow your ear to take in both I think the song may work for you a little more. Or hell...you might just not like the piece. In that case...to each their own.
posted 12-13-2002 07:30 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Romulan	Quill is dead-on. If you know anything about Gollum (and if you don't now, you will by the time TTT ends), you'll instantly see how applicable the lyrics are. Not to mention is is called "Gollum's Song" for a reason. Dan
posted 12-13-2002 08:09 AM PT (US)

Norman McCay Romulan	It was inevitable that I give TTT a second listen, and I now realize how short Gollum's Song actually is, considering that the TTT suite is included as a part of the same track. Yes, I have to admit that I now see the similarity between Gollum's character and the meaning behind the lyrics, and that Torrini's voice does reflect the lonely Gollum appropriately. The only problem I have left (which will probably resolved like everyone has suggested) is the placement of the song in terms of its sequence on the CD. How will the movie end? I guess I will see how it all comes together then....
posted 12-13-2002 08:35 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Norman McCay: The only problem I have left (which will probably resolved like everyone has suggested) is the placement of the song in terms of its sequence on the CD. How will the movie end? I guess I will see how it all comes together then.... Trust me when I say the song works perfectly with how the movie ends. You'll see.... oh yes... you'll see...... Dan
posted 12-13-2002 08:57 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	But we won't see WHAT until ROTK.
posted 12-13-2002 04:06 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Romulan	quote: Originally posted by Marian Schedenig: But we won't see WHAT until ROTK. No, I'm not talking about Shelob... I'm talking about Gollum. (granted, I suppose you could argue Shelob's involvement....) Dan [Message edited by dgoldwas on 12-14-2002]
posted 12-13-2002 04:37 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	Ok, I obviously haven't seen the film yet, I was simply going by a few things I've read. (...but at least I don't call him Gollem - certainly only a misspelling in your case, since you spelled it correctly above; but I've simply seen one too many websites calling him "Golem" ) NP: Home Alone 2: Deluxe Edition (John Williams)
posted 12-14-2002 01:46 AM PT (US)

Timmer Romulan	Fantastic score and I love Gollum's Song, It's been mentioned elsewhere that the song sounds John Barry'ish and I have to concur that those chords do sound very VERY Barry like, at the same time it doesn't sound like he's nicked anything! For me this is the years BEST score ...be patient Marian
posted 12-14-2002 10:49 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	Well, if TTT, like FOTR, ends with a Barry-like cue, I can pretty much guarantee you that there'll be an excellent Barry-like piece at the end of ROTK. That can't be anything else than wonderful. BTW, Timmer, did you get my e-mails? NP: Home Alone 2: Deluxe Edition (John Williams)
posted 12-14-2002 03:32 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Romulan	Gollum's Song? Two words: Total genius. NP: The Two Towers (Howard Shore)
posted 12-17-2002 08:19 PM PT (US)

Richard Romulan	I picked up TTT the other day. I was totally blown away by this score. It's causing me to enjoy FotR a lot more now, too. So much so that for the last two days I've been playing them back to back several times. As for Gollum's Song, I wasn't that keen on it at first, maybe because it wasn't what I was expecting, but now I quite like it. Does anyone else think it has the feel of something from a musical? (NB: This does NOT include anything by Andrew Loyd Webber.) I really get this impression when I listen to it. Oh well, just my two-bob. NP: The Two Towers ***/*** (I might change this soon. I just finished watching all the extras on the extended FotR. I'm all Lord of the Rings-ed out ) [Message edited by Richard on 12-18-2002]
posted 12-18-2002 01:57 AM PT (US)

Camillu Romulan	The day finally arrived! I saw TTT this afternoon (we didnt get any midnight showings here). I really really like Gollum's song - have heard it twice so far. The music is sublime and the lyrics so great. Like the overall effect very much. The rest of the score and the film in general and also great, but this song was the thing I was sooo curious to hear... Hope they let Shore do another song for ROTK rather than rope in big name stars who divert attention...
posted 12-18-2002 10:14 AM PT (US)

Kevin Romulan	Okay, now I get the song. Now I think it works. Kevin
posted 12-18-2002 12:01 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Romulan	For those who have seen the film only: total score discussion, including spoilers, [url=http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/010605.html]here[/url.]
posted 12-18-2002 07:35 PM PT (US)

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