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Hi! / Varese Club CD's

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Author	Topic: Hi! / Varese Club CD's

Moritz Muggle	Hi everybody! I'm new on this board but not in the wonderfull world of Filmmusic! :-) I'm collecting since '95 now and my favourite composers are John Williams, Michael Kamen, Alan Silvestri and Danny Elfmann. 'Thought I give this little introduction... And here comes my first topic(uh I'm excited): What do you think of Varese Club titles like "Romancing the Stone" and "Die Hard"? I think it's a shame how Varese ruined the scores with horrible editings, overdubs and trackorders (specially in the case of Die Hard). BOOM here's music edited out(Grubers Arrival, His Bag is Missing, and few seconds in many other cues) BANG this track is chopped in pieces over the CD ("Welcome to the Party"-Fisrt half comes between Track 1 and 2, the second half is Track 11) BOING this track is completly dumb titled(His Bag is Missing, The Nakatomi Plaza, The Tower) BAMM the beginning/end is overdubed into other cues (Track 1/2/5/13 and others) - They also did this with Track 4 on "Romancing the Stone". Horrible! It just ruins it! The fact that exactly this cue has been re-used several times in the movie makes the release far away from complete in my eyes. No alternate or source cues will make this up. These if definetly not the way it should be done! Puh, I just had to say this! Or am I just too pernickety and noone else cares?
posted 10-31-2002 10:15 AM PT (US)

Jeron Wizard	Moritz, I think you may be coming down with a bad case of over-"persnickety"-ness. Someone, call a doctor! Jeron PS- Welcome to the board. [Message edited by Jeron on 11-01-2002]
posted 10-31-2002 10:52 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Jeron: a bad case of over-"pernickety"-ness. lol.... isn't it "persnickety"? looks like you came down with a case of Brian-itis! Dan
posted 10-31-2002 11:07 AM PT (US)

Crono/Kyp Wizard	Dan, GET OVER IT Welcome to MM.com Moritz --Brian, the resident "Harry Potter" Nut
posted 10-31-2002 11:29 AM PT (US)

Philipp Wizard	Isn´t Marian the Harry Potter nut?? Welcome, Moritz Philipp np: the boy who could fly (broughton)
posted 10-31-2002 11:54 AM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	quote: Originally posted by Moritz: Puh, I just had to say this! Or am I just too pernickety and noone else cares? Too pernickety, but then again, people care about this stuff here too. I'm actually surprised this stuff about the sound edits hasn't been mentioned before. I've not yet listened to the CD to hear the bad editing, so I take your word on it. As for bad names for track titles? PERNICKITY! I do like the BOOM, BANG, BOING, BAMM method of making your point. All good, all good. Message to the peanut gallery: buy a clue.
posted 10-31-2002 01:01 PM PT (US)

SirT Muggle	Welcome Moritz, from a newcomer to a newcomer. And bonjour everybody! [Message edited by SirT on 10-31-2002]
posted 10-31-2002 01:11 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Philipp: Isn´t Marian the Harry Potter nut?? I'm one Harry Potter nut. But Brian has been a HPn even longer.
posted 10-31-2002 02:43 PM PT (US)

rachmaninov Wizard	I also care about the sound edits, I always like to see the "DDD" and I don't enjoy the 30 tracks CDs. But my exigencies don't go so far. I like almost all soundtracks SEs. Welcome Moritz! Rach
posted 10-31-2002 03:29 PM PT (US)

justin boggan Wizard	Hey man, i was wondering why i never saw you post here. Guess i know now. Welcome, now there are still a few more people that need to join.
posted 10-31-2002 03:47 PM PT (US)

Crono/Kyp Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Marian Schedenig: *I'm one* Harry Potter nut. But Brian has been a HPn even longer.** Marian, we're both the resident HP nuts --B
posted 10-31-2002 06:39 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Moritz: These if definetly not the way it should be done! Maybe you'd rather not have DIE HARD at all? Quit yer bitchin'. Ryan NP: Bitch Fest Oratorio / MovieMusic.com Festival Chorus
posted 10-31-2002 09:00 PM PT (US)

justin boggan Wizard	Maybe you'd rather not have DIE HARD at all? I don't know... after hearing it, i think i could live with that.
posted 10-31-2002 09:12 PM PT (US)

ESB Muggle	Moritz: in my opinion Varèse doesn't deserve this. If it wasn't for them Romancing the Stone wouldn't be spinning in your CD player. The sound quality is superb. The amount of music from RTS also positively surprised me. Please give those guys more appreciation.
posted 11-01-2002 02:06 AM PT (US)

Moritz Muggle	Thank you guys for your nice words (except Ryan)! Hi Justin! Welcome SirT! ESB, I never said I hate Varese but if they bring out those classic titles they should take care of the scores! I can't imagine that anyone likes missing music within a track. If Varese edits because of time reasons I could understand that. But by eliminating the "Let It Snow" source cue there would've been enough time for almost all the music they cuted out. And yeah Peter I was also wondering why nobody who reviewed DIE HARD talked about those edits...Seems like nobody listens close enough to the film. Well I just like to have the tracks from the first note to the last.
posted 11-01-2002 10:17 AM PT (US)

Al Wizard	Ryan, ESB, Varese should be appreciated for what they do, no doubt, but the fact that they release scores that in most cases would never get a release does not make them closed to criticism. They release products, and people who buy them have the right to complain if they wish.
posted 11-01-2002 10:31 AM PT (US)

ESB Muggle	Sure, people may criticize the Club releases. But I was a bit surprised that Moritz only had negative things to say about Varèse. Gave me the impression that Varèse was some dreadful, evil label Hell, they are the ones that are probably FINALLY coming with Predator and Commando within two weeks. I think those guys deserve a medal! There is always something negative to be said about a score release. If it isn't ultra complete to the last second then the cues aren't exactly in the right order. I take those imperfections for granted, if you don't mind.
posted 11-01-2002 01:12 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Al: They release products, and people who buy them have the right to complain if they wish. People only have a right to complain it they BUY the product. The only reason they can buy the product is because someone took the time and expense to release it. They're down twenty bucks, does that mean they can bitch? It's typical of film music collectors to bitch about what they get when there are very few people with the capability to release this music in the first place -- and the people who own the music don't give a rat's ass. Let's get this straight -- you, Moritz, and everyone -- we'd be lucky if we got even 5 seconds of DIE HARD. 20th Century Fox had zero interest in releasing this score 15 years ago, it's only because of Varese that it's available now. Ryan NP: More Music From MovieMusic.Com BitchFest / Crouch End Festival Chorus
posted 11-01-2002 04:38 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Wizard	I can't believe you folks are arguing about a few seconds of Die Hard when we still don't have an expanded Along Came a Spider. What the **** is wrong with you guys?!
posted 11-01-2002 08:35 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Way to go, JL. So, Ryan, you're the dude who wouldn't complain if the Die Hard soundtrack release was, in fact, five seconds long? Funny farm, man, funny farm! Sure you're name's not Ryan Smith?
posted 11-01-2002 08:53 PM PT (US)

Al Wizard	quote: Originally posted by rkeaveney: They're down twenty bucks, does that mean they can bitch? Let's get this straight: YES.
posted 11-01-2002 09:11 PM PT (US)

ESB Muggle	quote: Originally posted by jonathan_little: *I can't believe you folks are arguing about a few seconds of Die Hard* when we still don't have an expanded Along Came a Spider. What the ** is wrong with you guys?! Oh you mean the one with the extra two seconds?
posted 11-02-2002 12:36 AM PT (US)

Moritz Muggle	Let's get this straight Ryan: I(and I'm sure every other "Die Hard" /Kamen fan) allready had ALL the score music from Vareses CD in CLEAN condition(plus some extra minutes)! So their realease really suck big time! And you can't tell me you'd like it if they release your favourite soundtrack butchered! (Well you can't butcher alot within five seconds, but anyway...) If you ask me, I know you never would, but I tell you I'd rather like to see "Die Hard" officially unrealeased then having it this way! And that's that! And if we don't "bitch" about this Varese and OTHER companys will continue to maltreat the music. Fact is: they take the music without the composers knowledge and do with it what they want! You think Kamen likes the way they treat his music? Take a piece out here...and there. "Oh we don't like that section in the cue and we don't hear it in the film anyway. Let's edit it out! The stupid listener doesn't know about it anyway!" Don't get me wrong: it's cool that Varese take care of those scores that never got a release. But as I mentioned: NOT THIS WAY PLEASE! What the hack is wrong with putting one cue after another without stupid overdubs and editings?!
posted 11-02-2002 04:16 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Wizard	Uh....ok.... If I'm not mistaken I thought the notes on the Die Hard Cd stated that the cues were presented in the correct order as originally composed and that they they were mixed and edited out of order for the film. So If I'm right you are getting the intended correct presentation of the score on the CD.
posted 11-02-2002 06:57 AM PT (US)

Moritz Muggle	No you're not! Forget all the stuff they tell you in the booklet. Almost everything in it is wrong! I could write a whole essay about it. But I suggest you just compare it to the movie to hear it by yourself. For example: Track 16 isn't replaced by music from track 14. It's another version that's not on the CD. An alternate leaving out the six-note motive played by the strings. Only the Synths and pizzicato played strings survived in the film Version. And the "His Bag is Missing" cue is actually the "Bill Clay" track. And they just misunderstood the slate numbers and so on...But I'm just too tired right know to go on with this.
posted 11-02-2002 07:40 AM PT (US)

Richard Street Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Moritz: An alternate leaving out the six-note motive played by the strings. Only the Synths and pizzicato played strings survived in the film Version. Is this the "Singing In The Rain" bit? Maybe there was a copyright problem. NP: BLOODMOON (Brian May)
posted 11-02-2002 02:23 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Moritz: If you ask me, I know you never would, but I tell you I'd rather like to see "Die Hard" officially unrealeased then having it this way! And that's that! Ok, let me be an officer of the Soundtrack Police for once. Are you for real? I haven't bought the Die Hard disc because I don't find the music worth $20. If I was obsessed over the score (like you are), I'd be thankful that somebody finally had the good idea and resources to license it and put it out there. After all of that effort you say a bootleg is better? Damn. When The Black Hole is eventually released on CD (a score which I obsess about), even if it just contains the music on LP, I sure as hell hope you won't ever see me saying, "Oh, I love that bootleg so much more. Screw the moronic label that released it. They should have done it exactly to my anal-retentive specifications or not done it at all!" They would have to do something extremely stupid (like transfer it from an LP) to make me so upset about it where I wish it had 'never been officially released.' I don't "love" Varese, but if they had put one of my most favorite scores on a CD, I'd be wicked happy about it. </Soundtrack Police> [Message edited by jonathan_little on 11-02-2002]
posted 11-02-2002 02:42 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Wizard	It amazes me that labels like Intrada, Varese and FSM bust their asses to put unreased material yet everytime there is a release all we hear is whining and bitching. I thought that most people would be happy that they are getting theses scores but I guess I was wrong. I also think people forget the music you hear in the film isn't always the correct way the score was meant to be presented.
posted 11-02-2002 03:23 PM PT (US)

Al Wizard	Mark, Be honest, now. Though I understand your point, I think you're exaggerating just a tad. Most people are happy about these CDs. There is plenty of praise with these Varese and FSM releases--I personally praised Townson's successful effort to release Joe Versus the Volcano in one of my comics--so I hardly think a few complaints should warrant such a response as "all we hear is whining and bitching." NP: Goldsmith's "Sum of All Fears" [Message edited by Al on 11-03-2002]
posted 11-02-2002 03:44 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Moritz: Let's get this straight Ryan: I(and I'm sure every other "Die Hard" /Kamen fan) allready had ALL the score music from Vareses CD in CLEAN condition(plus some extra minutes)! If you were so happy with your perfect bootleg, why buy the Varese version? Doesn't it SUCK that the completely LEGAL version of DIE HARD doesn't live up to your ILLEGAL version? Oh, what a world!! Ryan NP: DIEHARD record-storybook / Narrated by Reginald Vel Johnson
posted 11-02-2002 06:38 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Al: Mark, Be honest, now. Though I understand your point, I think you're exaggerating just a tad. Most people are happy about these CDs. There is plenty of praise with these Varese and FSM releases--I personally praised Townson's successful effort to release Joe Versus the Volcano in one of my comics--so I hardly think a few complaints should warrant such a response as "all we hear is whining and bitching." NP: Goldsmith's "Sum of All Fears" [Message edited by Al on 11-03-2002] AL you are correct I just get a little fed up with some of the whining. I mean there are quite a few scores that I don't really care for but I don't complain cause I know someone else loves that score. Actually a majority of the complaints come from other message boards or so it seems.
posted 11-04-2002 01:48 PM PT (US)

Philipp Wizard	"What is even better than a pefect meal?" "A perfect meal with a perfect little mistake." "Just the way you like it, don´t you, Dr. Crane." Frasier, Niles and Daphne in one episode of FRASIER. Philipp np: enigma (john barry)
posted 11-04-2002 02:37 PM PT (US)

Al Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:AL you are correct I just get a little fed up with some of the whining. I mean there are quite a few scores that I don't really care for but I don't complain cause I know someone else loves that score. Actually a majority of the complaints come from other message boards or so it seems. Perfectly understandable.
posted 11-04-2002 06:14 PM PT (US)

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