I really enjoyed MANHUNTER. I thought the style of it was really engaging, and the use of "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" is pretty damn memorable (as well as Dante Spinotti's blue-hued lighting of the film).

That being said, RED DRAGON was in many was better for me. It "fits" in with SILENCE OF THE LAMBS because of the cast/crew crossover, and continuity helps, cause SOTL was such a better film than MANHUNTER. In a way, it's better through mere association. Ted Tally's writing helped certainly as well, and MANHUNTER is clearly a product of the 1980s, where RED DRAGON felt (right now, at least) to be more "timeless" - even though it took place in the 1980s (technically).

So, I'd say I like both of 'em, but am leaning towards RED DRAGON right now as the more "enjoyable" film.

I actually did post this in the Just Movies! message board yesterday, but I figured I get a better response here. Besides, we can always tie it to movies soundtracks. Case, in point....

After getting a chance to watch Manhunter last night, I can definitely say I liked Danny Elman's score to Red Dragon better than the score in Manhunter. Although, you're right about the use of In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida, it's fantastic and the most memorable moment for me.

But, Manhunter is definitely an 80's movie. It just has that Miami Vice feel to it in style and music etc. I think that's why I do like Red Dragon just a little better. It has more of a classic suspense feel. Plus, I much prefer the way Anthony Hopkins plays Lector as compared to Brian Cox. But, all in all both movies are very entertaining.

Bradley

All you need to do, IMO, is look at the "tiger" scene to see the difference in the movie.

MANHUNTER - that scene has an eerie haunting quality, very psychologically attuned, the music is TERRIFIC (more on that in a sec), the use of the heartbeat when she leans in to the tiger great.

RED DRAGON - flat. totally flat. there is nothing dynamic, eerie, compelling about this scene. It just sits there like a mini-chapter in a selection of scenes that comprises a movie. the music is fine, but sounded to me like a riff off of Howard Shore (I find this score to be one of Danny's more versatile in a while, but also not particularly inspired because Ratner's vision for the film is equally so).

As for MANHUNTER's music, it's driving me crazy that this thing's out of print and virtually unavailable. Other than a few very 80's sounding beats, there are intensely memorable cues, such as the tiger scene, the scene where Graham is on the plane and has that flashback, most of the stuff with Graham and his wife... Haunting stuff. I must have this score/soundtrack!

Anyway...I don't hate RED DRAGON it just was lifeless and didn't engage or move me in any way. THere's nothing memorable, new, fresh, exciting or dynamic about it and Dante Spinotti's DP work gives it a rich enough look that it keeps the movie from being what it's otherwise been turned into - a run-of-the-mill "detective chasing a serial killer" movie.

But that's just me.

Don't get me wrong, Ralph Feinnes does a perfectly fine job in the role. However, he and Ratner followed the Jonathan Demme/Ted Levine model of making the killer a creepy monster.

While Tom Noonan's Dollarhyde could certainly be creepy, there was also an element encoded in his performance and the screenplay missing from the new version... empathy.

Will makes it clear before his confrontation with Dollarhyde how badly he feels for the child that the killer once was. This is supported by Noonan's beautifully crafted performance. Interestingly, he also appeared more menacing when he had to, possibly because of the dichotomy he showed. Will also makes much clearer in Manhunter how important images are to Dollarhyde, which makes his involvement with Reba so much more moving.

Ralph Feinnes, in comparison, comes across as much more one-dimensional, which also hurts Emily Watson's otherwise fine performance as Reba... her attraction to Dollarhyde is something of a mystery, while Manhunter, which actually went into more detail in that regard, it made sense. Joan Allen's performance was quite good.

One scene that is better in Manhunter than in Red Dragon was Reba with the tiger; something that I have not seen anybody disagree with. There is something awesome and primal (and, yes, a little erotic) about the scene in Manhunter, while Red Dragon just seems to chronicle the event.

Of course, the restoration of the trip Dollarhyde takes to the Brooklyn Museum is an important one... but unfortunately, the film never took the time to explain Dollarhyde's fixation on that work (sure, he has the tattoo, but the significance of "hearing" the dragon is never delved into). As a result, I find that the scene in the museum, while certainly important in the book, is incidental to Red Dragon the film.

These are just my opinions, of course. But I found Red Dragon to be just a little too easy, which the book is not supposed to be. While the events of the film may run closer to the book, when stripped of their meaning, they become pointless, and I think that Manhunter was closer to the intent of the novel.

To bring this back to being on topic, the score for Red Dragon was, again in my opinion, Danny Elfman's best in years. It was inspired (and very Howard Shore-esque at moments... I kept expecting Clarice's theme from Silence of the Lambs to appear... that it didn't and that doesn't annoy me is a testament to how well-crafted it is) and very effective. It is perfect for this film.

Of course, the music from Manhunter was very distinctive, and probably one of Michael Mann's best soundscapes. Neither music track would have worked with the other film (an example of how different two films can be while showing, at times, identical material), but each one is perfect for the film that it supports.

Hey, are one of those Kitaro or Klaus Schultze tracks you mentioned the funky vibraphone music for when Will is consulting with Hannibal?

NP - Funny Stuff (a mix CD)

quote:

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Originally posted by Swashbuckler:

Hey, are one of those Kitaro or Klaus Schultze tracks you mentioned the funky vibraphone music for when Will is consulting with Hannibal?

NP - Funny Stuff (a mix CD)

[Message edited by Swashbuckler on 10-14-2002]

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First, great write-up there Swash, bravo

The cues for Will and Lecter are, IIRC - it has been too long since I've seen the Mann film, were by Michel Rubini and The Reds(??)...the Kitaro and Schulze tracks are long synth pieces,of course, that mostly were for the Dollarhyde scenes. One of these cues, however, is scored for a minimalist vibraphone motif against synth pads...I wouldn't call it funky, myself, as both cues are rather mellow and subdued.

Elfman`s score on the other hand was very good, though it works better on the cd due to the complexity of some of the orchestrations.

The ethereal synth music in Manhunter used for the scenes with Graham`s wife and also for the scene with the tiger (I think) are great. The rest of the score is very dated.